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Original poster

Gender Non-Conforming wardrobe...but still aesthetic?

107 replies

EverybodyJumpsuit · 27/10/2023 13:06

I need a thread of things that fit this style-

Two years ago I decided never to wear a dress or skirt again, which has actually been delightful. Also heels. IN THE BIN.

I'm very gender non-confirming, but havent translated that well into my clothes, and so had ended up super alienated from a lot of fashion, since huge amounts seems to be to be about playing up a version of woman-hood that I just don't belong in (looking at you instagram shiny face tit pout land). I want to look like the opposite of a Kardashian or one of the selling sunset broads.

For years I've lived in black mom jeans, boxy tees and mens jumpers, brogues, DM's, trainers, which is fine but very boring. But I actually love extreme dressing- Tilda Swinton and Roisin Murphy came up on another thread.

The brief I had was - un-approachable art gallery owner, does ju-jitsu, plays bass in a band. I'm gonna add, has MANY lovers (probably pansexual haha), probably speaks french and ancient egyption. Could defo be played by Tilda S. Pinch of Blake Lively in A Simple Favour...Jil Sander, Alexander McQueen...

Think massive brightly coloured floor length coats, big silhouette, Sharp masculine tailoring, volume in strange places, structure, architectural things, bold colour... nothing clingy or sweet.

I would love to know if anyone else likes this style, who they follow / style icons are for this, and what would this stye be called?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Original poster
EverybodyJumpsuit · 27/10/2023 19:11

@Soontobe60 @renthead

easy there. I’m just a person asking for some style advice and trying to sign post an aesthetic in a way other people might understand, which pretty much everyone else posting has understood taken in good faith and made amazing suggestions.

i already said maybe gender was a red herring- but look! I’ve found some great leads in places to shop from this thread so I’m happy I made it.

im not making any pronouncements on what women are, nor do I want to be a ‘cool girl’. Or different from other girls (whatever that means) I think that was a fairly clear comment on a cultural set of gendered tropes that appear in clothing, not very controversial and not something I subscribe to, but something I notice is visible in the culture. I don’t think women are weak, quite the opposite. It’s why I don’t always love the way clothing in the womens section can try and communicate things about women I don’t connect with (but other women do! Clearly as that stuff sells a bunch. Crack on!)

I just want to get out of style rut rather than be told off for some beliefs youre assuming I hold, which I don’t. Thanks

to the posters talking about finding your own style this is it I guess. It’s a bit hard to know where to start but this all really helps!

OP posts:
Original poster
EverybodyJumpsuit · 27/10/2023 19:24

@Cappuccinfortwo Rachel Weiss speaks ancient Egyptian in The Mummy (and dressed like a badass in The Favourite), so I think I’m going to keep my fantasy style persona with all her lingual skills intact!

OP posts:
thistimelastweek · 27/10/2023 19:32

missmoon · 27/10/2023 14:35

I'm sure there are many others, but a couple who come to mind are Kristen McMenamy (model), Fran Lebowitz (author/media personality), maybe Coco Chanel ???. There is a great documentary about Fran Lebowitz, "Pretend It's a City", directed by Martin Scorsese (on Netflix). I can't think of any more current style icons sorry! But I love this style too.

I read the OP and immediately thought Fran Lebowitz.

I've been lucky enough to hear and see her live; she's fabulous in every way including her clothes

thistimelastweek · 27/10/2023 19:37

Just to add, Frsn talked about her clothes and they are not cheap.
She shops in Savile Row

Serenster · 27/10/2023 19:37

I wonder if Palava might be of interest? They are quirky, have what I think of as a “Land Girls but make it colourful” aesthetic with plenty of trousers and some unisex items. Lots of female comedians wear their clothes, I have noticed.

gawditswindy · 27/10/2023 19:42

EverybodyJumpsuit · 27/10/2023 15:12

@Cappuccinfortwo

This is a really interesting nuance:

Women gender conforming clothes would be, dresses, skirts, probably figure hugging clothes or things designed to make one look weak and feminine. That's the broad cultural consensus on the performative gender of woman. If I go to Asos and click "women" that's a lot of what I see.

When I say "non gender conforming", I mean "not Woman conforming" (as capitalism is selling it back to me in fashion). It could mean performing masculinity though. I think women wearing masculine clothing is an awesome style.

Teasing out this distinction is super helpful for me because I think disliking clothes that fall into the first category (sort of hyper woman) has lead me to try and perform no gender, neutral I guess? Hence jeans tshirts "normal clothes" as you say.

But I'm realising that I miss performance in clothing- statement, drama, interest and I guess I'm trying to work out if I can re-inject that.

This could easily turn into a debate about gender conformation but Id really like to chat fashion instead :-)

If I go to Asos and click "women" that's a lot of what I see.

Top items in ASOS women's bestsellers⬇️

Gender Non-Conforming wardrobe...but still aesthetic?
Darhon · 27/10/2023 19:59

EverybodyJumpsuit · 27/10/2023 13:06

I need a thread of things that fit this style-

Two years ago I decided never to wear a dress or skirt again, which has actually been delightful. Also heels. IN THE BIN.

I'm very gender non-confirming, but havent translated that well into my clothes, and so had ended up super alienated from a lot of fashion, since huge amounts seems to be to be about playing up a version of woman-hood that I just don't belong in (looking at you instagram shiny face tit pout land). I want to look like the opposite of a Kardashian or one of the selling sunset broads.

For years I've lived in black mom jeans, boxy tees and mens jumpers, brogues, DM's, trainers, which is fine but very boring. But I actually love extreme dressing- Tilda Swinton and Roisin Murphy came up on another thread.

The brief I had was - un-approachable art gallery owner, does ju-jitsu, plays bass in a band. I'm gonna add, has MANY lovers (probably pansexual haha), probably speaks french and ancient egyption. Could defo be played by Tilda S. Pinch of Blake Lively in A Simple Favour...Jil Sander, Alexander McQueen...

Think massive brightly coloured floor length coats, big silhouette, Sharp masculine tailoring, volume in strange places, structure, architectural things, bold colour... nothing clingy or sweet.

I would love to know if anyone else likes this style, who they follow / style icons are for this, and what would this stye be called?

I find this weird

and so had ended up super alienated from a lot of fashion, since huge amounts seems to be to be about playing up a version of woman-hood that I just don't belong in (looking at you instagram shiny face tit pout land). I want to look like the opposite of a Kardashian or one of the selling sunset broads.

One of the main styles of the moment is gender neutral, oversize clothes. There’s always loads of tailoring about. Most women wear trousers most of the time.

l’ve also met a lot of stylish women who wear men’s clothes

Torganer · 27/10/2023 20:05

In every era there has been more than one type of fashion. I don’t think fashion at the moment is the ‘Kardashian’ look? It’s very androgynous. Cos are good for the big silhouette.

fernsandlilies · 27/10/2023 20:15

Iris Apfel?

Lykia · 27/10/2023 20:19

Sunspel
Margaret Howell
Studio Nicholson

LolaSmiles · 27/10/2023 20:20

There's a lot of oversized and structured tailoring in women's clothing shops at the moment.

To me what makes some people look effortlessly put together and stylish is that the clothing reflects them rather than it looks like they're trying to emulate a certain style to aesthetic.

Maybe focus on buying pieces you love and then combine them in different ways rather than focusing on having a set style

LovelyGreenCushions · 27/10/2023 20:26

NU ?

TheDogIsInCharge · 27/10/2023 20:36

EverybodyJumpsuit · 27/10/2023 15:12

@Cappuccinfortwo

This is a really interesting nuance:

Women gender conforming clothes would be, dresses, skirts, probably figure hugging clothes or things designed to make one look weak and feminine. That's the broad cultural consensus on the performative gender of woman. If I go to Asos and click "women" that's a lot of what I see.

When I say "non gender conforming", I mean "not Woman conforming" (as capitalism is selling it back to me in fashion). It could mean performing masculinity though. I think women wearing masculine clothing is an awesome style.

Teasing out this distinction is super helpful for me because I think disliking clothes that fall into the first category (sort of hyper woman) has lead me to try and perform no gender, neutral I guess? Hence jeans tshirts "normal clothes" as you say.

But I'm realising that I miss performance in clothing- statement, drama, interest and I guess I'm trying to work out if I can re-inject that.

This could easily turn into a debate about gender conformation but Id really like to chat fashion instead :-)

I'm thinking early David Bowie. Sharp suits, bold colours, glitter, satin, wide trousers. Tilda Swinton en acid.

My daughter dresses very gender non conforming (she's gay) and I wish she'd see the possibilities as more flamboyant and playful then "Ellen de Generes on a day off" which is her current muse.

If I was skinny (I'm so not) I'd be so into this look: flash, colourful suits and silky shirts all the way. With a very bold lip. And some statement shoes.

Original poster
EverybodyJumpsuit · 27/10/2023 21:18

@TheDogIsInCharge "and I wish she'd see the possibilities as more flamboyant and playful then "Ellen de Generes on a day off" which is her current muse."
My current rut is even slightly below that I'm afraid. Your post gets at what I was reaching for really nicely. Would be great if this thread shows up some things for her.

@Darhon haha I don't think invented this idea... I have been hiding in norm-core land. Im aware its all over the place, but I still need help to discover needles in the haystack

@gawditswindy your asos algorithm is WAY more on point than mine. Jelly. Mine is a lovely young lady in skintight black leather mini dress. She looks great, but i dont think I would rock it.

@LovelyGreenCushions Nu... OH MY GOODNESS I wish i could pull this stuff off. Its really great to see someone doing something like this at that price point- (maybe loads of other places are) I don't know, I live under a style rock. Fabulous recommendation. Very inspiring. Something to shoot for.

Its lovely to have people coming to unpack my comments on gender, Grown Up Art School is what I'll go with if I ever thread about this again, lesson learned...

OP posts:
itsmyp4rty · 27/10/2023 21:22

Yes I think Grown up art school is much more suitable, I know an art teacher who absolutely epitomises this style - her shoe collection is mind blowing (but she does do thick heels.)

Original poster
EverybodyJumpsuit · 27/10/2023 21:25

One really weird thing though- my house is downright GIRLY. Pink / floral everywhere. Laura Ashley!! . I bloody love it in interiors and hate it in clothes… no idea why.

OP posts:
Original poster
EverybodyJumpsuit · 27/10/2023 21:27

@itsmyp4rty what kind of thing does she wear?

OP posts:
saffronsoup · 27/10/2023 21:31

I worked in a professional role and have never worn skirts or heels or make-up. I wore pants and various tops, suit jackets or pant suits when I needed to dress up and casual tops when I didn't. But it isn't a style or a look or representative of anything for me - nor am I flamboyant. I am just not traditionally feminine.

Screamingabdabz · 27/10/2023 21:41

In defense of the Kardashians - who are being branded here as being brazenly frilly and letting down the whole of womankind with their offensive femininity - Kim always models her brand skims which are very plain unadorned neutral coloured leggings, bralets and underwear. She regularly wears baggy (and ugly imo) ‘Yeezy’ type oversized sweats, shirts, puffy coats and what I call abattoir boots. She dresses her kids the same. And Khloe has a jeans brand so regularly wears just t shirts and denim. Kris Jenner, their mother, is often in designer suits and ‘power’ dresses to the max, usually in black. Kendall and Kylie are sweatshirt types too (in their natural state). Kourtney is a bit more girly but in a goth/tattoo type of way. Her recent D&G Italian wedding to Travis Barker was more lemons and black lace than pink hearts and froth.

I think the idea that they are icons of ultimate feminine dressing is wrong.

Peggoty · 27/10/2023 22:12

Lentilweaver · 27/10/2023 15:58

Plumo might suit you.

There are a lot of us who don't wear heels or Kardashian type dresses, and wear masculine or androgynous clothing, including myself. I don't think of it as gender non-conforming in particular. As pp said, it's just clothes I prefer. I don't have many lovers though, or speak French.

I agree. I don'ike the insinuation from the OP that women who don't wear masculine or androgynous clothing are in instagram shiny face tit pout land

Goodornot · 27/10/2023 22:13

I had no idea trousers were gender non conforming for women. I thought they were just women's clothes.

Soontobe60 · 27/10/2023 23:12

EverybodyJumpsuit · 27/10/2023 19:11

@Soontobe60 @renthead

easy there. I’m just a person asking for some style advice and trying to sign post an aesthetic in a way other people might understand, which pretty much everyone else posting has understood taken in good faith and made amazing suggestions.

i already said maybe gender was a red herring- but look! I’ve found some great leads in places to shop from this thread so I’m happy I made it.

im not making any pronouncements on what women are, nor do I want to be a ‘cool girl’. Or different from other girls (whatever that means) I think that was a fairly clear comment on a cultural set of gendered tropes that appear in clothing, not very controversial and not something I subscribe to, but something I notice is visible in the culture. I don’t think women are weak, quite the opposite. It’s why I don’t always love the way clothing in the womens section can try and communicate things about women I don’t connect with (but other women do! Clearly as that stuff sells a bunch. Crack on!)

I just want to get out of style rut rather than be told off for some beliefs youre assuming I hold, which I don’t. Thanks

to the posters talking about finding your own style this is it I guess. It’s a bit hard to know where to start but this all really helps!

The words you choose to use imply you have a certain mindset.
Clothes are just clothes. Wear whatever you want - stop trying to make a statement!

TheLongRider · 27/10/2023 23:13

There's an Italian brand High who span some of this aesthetic. Their current AW23 denim styling is definitely androgynous. Their past campaigns have taken inspiration from the Bloomsbury set among others. Their Instagram is worth a look.

There is also a lot of feminine styling in their recent summer season.

HIGH Everyday Couture Official Website

HIGH Official website and online shop: contemporary clothing and accessories designer collections for woman. Choose and buy now online directly at HIGH store!

https://www.high-everydaycouture.com/ie_en/

TheLongRider · 27/10/2023 23:18

I have a pair of cream wool trousers from High that fit like a glove with generous pockets. The trousers are from their agender range.

Androgynous dressing is what you make it. I have short hair, cut by a barber, who asked me what my wife thought of me going short. I've been married to the same man for over 30 years!

I can wear an interestingly cut dress just as easily as a well designed trouser suit. Don't reject dresses on the basis of their perceived femininity. Play with your aesthetic, it doesn't have to be a choice between baggy sportswear and bodycon dresses. Clothing is far more interesting than that.