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Les Parisiennes des Mamanset: A Sin of Pride

986 replies

botemp · 02/07/2023 22:09

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.


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Outlets

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Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

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[[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FdQbdNEUpGqOyH2oqBQZBVsKISieRgxW_F67mgRLSrw/edit?usp=sharing Consignment shops, Vintage, an
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209
Mitsouko1919 · 25/09/2023 11:27

@botemp I think you've summed Chanel up pretty perfectly there (as you did the exigencies of war and the nature of survival in general during that period in history for the people of occupied Europe.) I suspect that if Churchill did indeed intervene in obtaining her release from the Free French it may have had as much to do with what she knew about significant members of the British aristocracy and their connections to Nazi Germany as anything else. She of course left for Switzerland immediately afterwards so whatever had gone on she didn't feel comfortable hanging around whilst Chanel No 5 was given out free to the liberating forces...The relationship between Chanel and the Wertheimer's is fascinating given that even after everything that had happened they bankrolled her return a decade later. I think if she'd been actively involved with SOE we'd have heard about it by now (a good academic friend of mine is the leading authority on women in SOE, what an incredible history that is.)

I think Chanel was an interesting woman, and very significant in the history of women's fashion, but she remains an enigma - partly as she left such a trail of lies, ambiguities and half truths in her wake. A hard but brittle person, that's for sure.

botemp · 25/09/2023 12:16

It may also just have been that she had pertinent intel, everyone sort of assumes that when the war ended it was all over but there were loads of plots still to uncover and there were a lot of double agents. It wasn't just an armed conflict either, there will still fires to extinguish, see Operation Bernhard and loot to be retrieved.

A lot of Nazi German spies were turned after the war, I'm reading a book atm, Wise Gals about the woman at the CIA at its founding and it goes into it a little (the women were the best handlers for these types). They (the German spies) were far from unblemished characters who were just on the wrong side of the war, really some awful characters among them, but they had the right intel to trade and got away without being held accountable for their war crimes and often a big bag of money to retire to South America with.

WRT Chanel being an enigma, I think she was just very shrewd and a bit of a hustler by circumstances (I'd forgotten about giving out Chanel no. 5, brilliant PR move, I think it was at the Rue Cambon shop, right?) and her approach to marketing really does seem to be the template most of fashion marketing works from today (changing somewhat now with digital) and the whole French chic myth is probably down to her too. But I think that sort of ruthless go-getter attitude is something still not appreciated in women, every flaw is enlarged and weaponised, the expectation is still to be a saint where men get away with far far worse behaviour and outright lies.

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banivani · 25/09/2023 14:39

So much for my "return" haha but I'm popping in again now.

Read the Guardian article, didn't love it. Felt too shallow, but maybe I'm nitpicking. The way they had to quote to explain a french seam? The only source really is this one person (who runs a business). Mind, that said, a lot is correct. ;)

Welcome to Mitsouku! :) I'm the least fashionable person on the thread, you can only go up from me.

Am awaiting the Uniqlo C review. Saw that Uniqlo U was out again, am contemplating getting a pair of jeans again, but I think sz 32 will be too small and sz 34 will be sold out and too big. Looked at the collaboration with CdC but it wasn't beguiling.

Oh and my jeans - I haven't tumble dried them. I don't think it'd do much for the waist band, I'd say it'd only shrink the length (mind you, not a bad thing). They are my only pair and I'm trying to make them last!

Clotheswise the only fun thing I've done recently is find a lovely bit of probably hand printed thick linen fabric in a second hand shop that I bought because I couldn't resist. I'll post a photo later. What to make of it is another question... realistically a tote bag is the most probable thing. I have yet to make an item of clothing, so embarrassing.

botemp · 25/09/2023 15:10

Yes, Desmond is suspiciously quiet about Uniqlo C 🧐

Don't put yourself down so much Bani, no offense to anyone else, but you're the best entertainment on this thread.

Are you referring to the previous Guardian article, something something one size doesn't fit all as the one I just posted didn't contain chatter about French seams iirc. Tbh I'm a little squicked out by the fetishisation of the French seam, they're a pain in the ass to make, I don't blame people who make clothes for eight hours straight to prefer a serger.

(I may, or may not, be in the midst of making what I affectionately call a clown coat with more French seams than I like which also need to pattern match, because I really like torturing myself, or something...)

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EffortlessDesmond · 26/09/2023 12:44

Sorry bo! Dereliction of duty... the baseball cap is good wool but I was hoping for a bit more curve in the peak. That said, I shall keep it. The corduroy trousers are a good shape and fit pretty well, but the fabric is okay, if underwhelming. However, I tried them on quickly and need to do so again before I return them. They would actually be very useful, and I haven't seen anything I like better yet.

Mitsouko1919 · 26/09/2023 13:09

I totally agree with your last statement particularly @botemp - very well observed. I'd be interested in your thoughts re: how contemporary fashion marketing may be changing from the 'older world' model that Chanel was part of to new forms in the digital era. I've really enjoyed reading your contributions on this sort of stuff on these threads 🙂

On a separate note, I'd like to get hold of some quality silk (or faux silk) scarves. I've got a couple of Chanel ones that I like but the colours are sometimes strange (goodness knows what they do with 'navy' 😀) I don't like Hermes - for some reason all I can think of in there is Dali, their scarf prints make me feel as ill as when I look at his work! I've seen a couple of nice ones in And Other Stories, I like their geometrics. I'm not a fan of florals at all, much less hearts or stars etc. I far prefer clean lines. If they upload there should be a couple of photos attached of the sort of thing I'm generally attracted to. Any suggestions of places to shop much appreciated 🙂

Les Parisiennes des Mamanset: A Sin of Pride
Les Parisiennes des Mamanset: A Sin of Pride
MmePoppySeedDefage · 26/09/2023 13:40

Jacqmar is still in business and has a teeny range, made in England:

jacqmar.com/collections/all

Mitsouko1919 · 26/09/2023 13:49

MmePoppySeedDefage · 26/09/2023 13:40

Jacqmar is still in business and has a teeny range, made in England:

jacqmar.com/collections/all

Good grief - how wonderful! Tiny but lovely collection. Thanks @MmePoppySeedDefage 🙂

botemp · 26/09/2023 13:54

@Mitsouko1919 , I think in a way it's sort of going back to the old model. A lot of 'prestige' luxury houses are creating alternative spaces, events and special privileges for high spend clients, can't get a Birkin without a longstanding account, Chanel opening specific shops for them, etc. But you see it at the e-luxury level as well, all are trying to bind big spenders through special programs and perks. So that's really playing into the narrative of luxury as exclusivity.

And then there seems to be a more conventional online marketing approach, influencers, faux intimacy and behind the scenes look of how things are made. Because it's online it sort of exists alongside each other without it overlapping really, it's quite a safe strategy (which the Coco Chanel approach was not, very much high risk, high reward). So the whole debacle with the Chanel advent calendar last year (I think) that erupted over socials just doesn't register with their premium clients.

I think their main challenge will be getting younger generations buying into it. They seem to be less prepared to spend on luxury and if they do it's less likely with recognisable names.

Scarves, I'm not the biggest fan of Hermes one either but I will special mention a special version they have made by artisans in Japan which is a joy to watch (and an example of the new digital marketing):

For geometric styles, Toteme have some but tbh the price Vs quality is difficult to justify.

LeScarf despite the name is Scandi, and quite similar to Toteme's style but far more affordable.

Aeneis Paris also has some nice geometric ones.

Hermès | Silk marbling: a Japanese technique rediscovered

Hermès - Footsteps across the world collection: Kyotohttps://www.hermes.com/uk/en/story/sustainable-development/Droplets, waves and mountains… the etchings h...

https://youtu.be/rhYzrQbIlc8?si=f-zLVh0dTxLJpGYn

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NatashaDancing · 26/09/2023 21:40

Liberty?

I bought my son's (now ex) girlfriend this one Christmas and this Hermès one the following year

.Liberty Hera Scarf

Les Parisiennes des Mamanset: A Sin of Pride
Redandblue11 · 26/09/2023 22:08

I came to suggest Le-scarf. But I see that Bo beat me to it.

the ones you showed mitsouko reminded me of some Margaret Howell ones, I have one small ecru and black polka dot which I love.
I do think they have some geometrical ones in the current (tiny) collection. Or you might be able to get some pre-loved ones (if you do not mind that).

Aspinal of London has some on sale too

I love a silk scarf.

Les Parisiennes des Mamanset: A Sin of Pride
NatashaDancing · 26/09/2023 22:54

I'm a bit shocked at botemp's indifference to Hermès scarves. My first one is over 30 years old and is as good as new. The edges never unroll on Hermès scarves. I have a Delvaux silk square - it doesn't have the weight of Hermès scarves and one of the edges has unrolled.

MmePoppySeedDefage · 27/09/2023 08:44

I love silk scarves too and have some lovely ones, though not Hermès. But I never wear them these days - I wear all my fine cashmere ones (a friend works for a cashmere company) as I like a warm neck in winter, and I am currently wearing a linen one I knitted myself but it almost never seems the time to wear a silk one. I did wear them back in the 80s/90s.

Maybe that will be this winter's challenge. Starting with the Jacqmar special edition Brontë scarf I inherited from my godmother in lilac, black and white, with pictures of the sisters.

Floisme · 27/09/2023 09:15

I've got loads of silk scarves ermm... somewhere. They're mostly the long flowy variety though, as I never got the hang of squares or felt comfortable with one around my neck. I don't think I've ever seen a Hermes in real life.

What I really love at the moment - and I've no doubt said it before - are those men's paisley scarves. My favourites are silk on one side and wool on the other.

microbius · 27/09/2023 10:17

Morning all. I have nothing useful to add on scarfs, but I went to the Margaret Howell sample sale yesterday and I got myself a deep green hooded parka in oiled (or waxed?) cotton. I am pretty sure that it is exactly the same coat @Floisme got years ago. (I remember reading old threads and that raincoat). Mine looks like it's fallen behind some furniture where it spent quite a few years. It's all wrinkly but I am so very pleased to have a waterproof coat with a generous hood in my colour. It's really quite an amazing coat. My question is, how to improve its appearance? Flo, how do you take care of yours?

botemp · 27/09/2023 10:59

Flo, just keep in mind with this path down louche dandy way, you might end up looking a bit Russell Brand if you don't watch out...

micro, tricky, I think it's difficult as I know Merchant and Mills charge a surcharge for sending their oil cloths rolled as you can't undo the creasing without removing the coating and reapplying it all over again. Since it's a collab with Barbour maybe try one of their shops for advice? They might offer a service for rewaxing and at the very least will sell supplies. Or try reaching out to British Millerian on socials, as they're the most likely manufacturers of the fabric.

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NatashaDancing · 27/09/2023 11:59

Floisme · 27/09/2023 09:15

I've got loads of silk scarves ermm... somewhere. They're mostly the long flowy variety though, as I never got the hang of squares or felt comfortable with one around my neck. I don't think I've ever seen a Hermes in real life.

What I really love at the moment - and I've no doubt said it before - are those men's paisley scarves. My favourites are silk on one side and wool on the other.

Give me shout if you're in Edinburgh. I'll take you for afternoon tea, wearing one of my many Hermès squares. I wear them a lot.

Redandblue11 · 27/09/2023 13:46

I haven’t managed to get to MH sample sale yet, maybe tomorrow but don’t hold your breath.

I was reading an article on the torygraph about Paris Fashion Week Dior show and Maria Gracia Chiuri. And the inspiration of witches, Joan of Arc etc. Some of the stuff, specially that sense of not perfectly finished in a polished sense, slightly worn, using natural dyes was very reminiscent to me of what I would aspire to in my late teens /very early twenties. I found it interesting to see it in her collection.

I do not know how to copy or paste articles on a paywall, but another look of her show can be found in this vogue article

5 Things To Know About Dior’s Bewitching SS24 Show

For Dior’s spring/summer 2024 show, creative director Maria Grazia Chiuri looked to female stereotypes in history, from witches to the Parisiennes of 19th-century France. See Vogue’s key takeaways from Dior’s spring/summer 2024 show.

https://www.vogue.co.uk/gallery/dior-ss24/amp

microbius · 27/09/2023 14:23

Thanks for your advice, bo!

Red, an interesting link. JCM wrote quite a satirical review of Chiuri show.

botemp · 27/09/2023 14:42

Hmm, I just read the JCM piece, I'm not sure it's satirical, did you mean critical? It definitely reads like she was rolling her eyes a fair bit (and I don't blame her, the activism spiel is a bit odd to say the least considering where MC sits and if you review her previous work). I'm not a big MC fan, I think I've made no secret of that before but I do get what you mean Red I remember there was a period of Victoriana/Gothic revival for a bit with a hippy dip crossover, I think it overlapped with a bit of heroin chic but it was somehow less gloomy than that.

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microbius · 27/09/2023 15:18

JCM mocks the slogans in relation to the context a fair bit (maybe satirising is a wrong word). I am all for epater la bourgeoisie but anti-capitalism at a Dior catwalk is just absurd. I understand when an aesthetic of the poor and displaced (like the checkered plastic bag) is picked up and redefined, it is more about playing with visual conventions and articulating a political dimension through using a specific print. But Chiurri's use of slogans are just exploitative, no?

botemp · 27/09/2023 15:45

I'd go with oppurtunistic over exploitative, and the farce of it all kind of gets worse knowing she hired her own daughter fresh from uni (I think a Gender Studies degree) as a high paid advisor/consultant for this input. From an artistic standpoint you could build some defense of it, were it not that Karl Lagerfeld at Chanel did it first. If it weren't for the daughter I could almost pretend it was a sort of post modern commentary on virtue signalling (at least then the sudden rejection of the iconic hourglass shape at Dior would make sense) but the great downfall of this all is that it's actually sincere, misguided with massive blinkers on, but still sincere. Ick.

Les Parisiennes des Mamanset: A Sin of Pride
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Redandblue11 · 27/09/2023 17:18

I had forgotten about the daughter, and yes the show itself has been done before.
Interesting how, when these messages come presented that way from a place of privilege then it looks less than sincere. Or to be honest, it doesn’t really matter if is sincere or not , to me lacks value somehow when is just presented like that.
on the other hand, I don’t really know the ins and outs of the industry, but yesterday I overheard a lady in a clothes shop saying the outfit she was trying was perfect for her work as was not too fitted and she could put a pair of trousers under or a cami and be more modest. She was concerned to show too much as she worked doing props for tv series…

botemp · 27/09/2023 22:09

Yes, sometimes it's good to be reminded most people just want function out of their clothes 🙈

I think when you message so predictable and literally it just struggles to come across as authentic. I think there's definitely ways to communicate effectively from a point of privilege but this is absolutely not it. It's also somewhat concerning that no one in a rather large team of several disciplines pointed it out. I mean it's not a PR nightmare or anything but I am rather concerned that Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie is tangentially associated with this, that 'we should all be feminists' Dior t-shirt was probably patient zero.

I think the strength with KL for Chanel's show at the time was that no one quite knew if he was sincere or not. It was at a tense time in terms of public debate and KL was a bit of a troll who could very well just be lampooning but you would never quite know. He knew how to play the press well, they'd get an excellent soundbite out of him but never an answer to any of their questions.

Insane clown coat sewing project is coming along much quicker than expected, just hemming and topstitching left to do, I don't really want to topstitch it though but I probably should. But I'll probably ruin it. Argh.

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Floisme · 28/09/2023 08:08

NatashaDancing · 27/09/2023 11:59

Give me shout if you're in Edinburgh. I'll take you for afternoon tea, wearing one of my many Hermès squares. I wear them a lot.

That sounds fabulous, thank you, I will!