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Les Parisiennes des Mamanset: A Sin of Pride

986 replies

botemp · 02/07/2023 22:09

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.


Favoured Parisian addresses:

Second Hand Shops

Outlets

Favoured London addresses:

Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

Favoured NYC addresses:

[[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FdQbdNEUpGqOyH2oqBQZBVsKISieRgxW_F67mgRLSrw/edit?usp=sharing Consignment shops, Vintage, an
d Restaurants]]


Previous thread

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209
botemp · 12/09/2023 09:07

There's been a few, next show will be the designer's last with the house announcements with no mention of a successor so the musical chairs might come later. Sarah Burton moving to Chloé wouldn't be that unusual, but I can't see Gabriela Hearst moving to McQueen 🤔

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CrkdLttrCrkdLttr · 12/09/2023 09:09

I definitely don’t know - but quite honestly if I’d inherited the House of McQueen I’d be finding the reality of being dressmaker to the current PoW a bit of a curse.

My wardrobe hasn’t much needed the original McQueen level of fabulousness in recent years - but if it had, I wouldn’t love the royal association and might be inclined to look elsewhere.

Great analysis of Martine Rose, @botemp - she’d be an interesting choice. But where would the PoW shop, if that happened??

Floisme · 12/09/2023 09:32

hmm yes, myabe being forever associated with a Royal wedding isn't ideal in that world. I noticed that Uniqlo had left it off Clare Waight Keller's resume too. Which reminds me, I have warmed to a few things in Uniqlo C, not enough to put in an order (probably) plus I'm just going out so can't stop and link, but I'll try and remember later.

botemp · 12/09/2023 09:44

Well tbh, the PoW could probably also do with a bit of exploring of her former lolling out of taxis, tits out on the beach days and breaking out of the impeccable can do no wrong image, imho. I'd kind of hoped installing a new monarch would also mean leaving behind the overly staid bits and bring a more modern outward façade, well as modern as they'd manage anyhow. Well, you know, less of the tights and ballerina pink nails.

Alexander McQueen (the brand) doesn't have a royal warrant or anything like that, do they, she's just a very good customer and unofficial ambassador? I come from republican stock so I do get the knee jerk aversion but I think it's probably also fair to say that had KM gone with some other wedding dress designer I don't think the brand would have survived. As much as Sarah Burton doing a really good job on the gown and bridesmaid dresses when the business was very much in flux after his suicide was, having the platform of a royal wedding will have made a world of difference and really made it a global brand overnight. So in that sense the close relationship between PoW and the house feels warranted but I also think it's probably fair to say it's gotten a little too tangled up.

Where she'd have to shop then for her suit staples, hmm, well in my ideal world she'd hire Hannah MacGibbon (another female designer in a high profile post who seemingly got dropped without explanation and left to wither, still some of my favourite Chloé collections even if they were few), get her to scour the British fabric mills for the most exquisite small batch production fabrics, and get just the right tailors to execute the designs to champion that aspect of the British fashion industry instead of just the shiny fashion bit at the top which for the most part isn't even British owned anymore, time for some appreciation of the little businesses that still carry on the craft.

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CrkdLttrCrkdLttr · 12/09/2023 09:50

For me it’s not so much the wedding dress - that’s forgivable; it was perfectly nice, and who would turn down such an opportunity. But the POW has worn (seemingly) a lot of Burton era AM over the years. Impossibly, she makes it look boring. And has completely killed the counter-cultural vibe that made the brand exciting. No idea if other previous / potential customers feel the same.

mm47 · 12/09/2023 10:10

The original thread (the one which made me flip at last) Flo was turned round by you 👏👏👏. I’ll go and have a look.

botemp · 12/09/2023 10:13

I think it helps that those designs never read as McQueen and weren't for sale to the rest of the public. Outside of the UK it certainly won't have made an impact, it's just seen as vaguely cool and prestigious on the back of being expensive.

I think the countercultural essence of the brand was well eroded by the time of his suicide , tough to dissect it exactly but I do feel Isabella Blow really brought that as well as the brand still operating independently and not being part of a conglomerate. His death was shocking and has subsequently immortalised him in his peak days but it was creatively hobbling along at that point, seeking direction.

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mm47 · 12/09/2023 10:25

But the POW has worn (seemingly) a lot of Burton era AM over the years. Impossibly, she makes it look boring. And has completely killed the counter-cultural vibe that made the brand exciting.

I think Crkd’s suggestion that KM has made Burton eta AM look boring and so they need someone to shake it up might not be too far off the mark.

I think the exploration of KM’s wilder side in public is limited to her wearing coloured nail varnish (!) now that QE II is dead - I read somewhere the late Queen did not like it so that’s why they all wore v pale pink (although I bet Princess Margaret wore what she damn well liked!)

And thanks Bo for filling in the gaps on why Martine Rose would be a good choice for AM. I could only find menswear in relation to her but that would be no barrier especially as you say AM started on Savile Row.

mm47 · 12/09/2023 11:49

Dreadful cross posting sorry

botemp · 12/09/2023 18:35

Creepy algorithm is good for some things now and then, interesting article popped up on what brands are looking for now in their creative directors and how different that it is from before and how that's impacting creativity and the development of young talent. <sigh> I won't be holding my breath for Martine Rose at AM Sad

Fashion’s Talent Problem

After a century of marrying risky artistry with commercial savvy, the fashion industry has all but abandoned design talent.

https://www.thecut.com/article/fashion-world-talent-problem.html

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Floisme · 12/09/2023 18:59

Thanks bo, I literally just dropped in looking for some early evening reading so that might be just the ticket.

The 'Ask a Stylist' seems to paywalled by the way - not complaining but just in case you were wondering why we were all ignoring it!

I'm curious about Rise & Fall but there seems to be a glitch in their website and it keeps telling me I need a password. Still it's one to look out for. It sounds like it might be a similar kind of idea to Community Clothing - basics from by high end manufacturers for lower end prices?

botemp · 12/09/2023 19:08

Here's the Ask a Stylist piece without paywall, same instructions as previously, replace dot with an actual dot and stitch back together:

archive [dot] ph/LDYyQ

I did wonder why no one commented on it 🧐

Rise and Fall looks to be having some technical issues, I'm sure it'll be back up in a day or so.

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Floisme · 12/09/2023 19:47

Sh thank you, I really must make a note of those instructions!

Floisme · 12/09/2023 19:48

Sh? Confused

I think I meant 'Ah' or 'Oh thank you'

Floisme · 13/09/2023 13:58

Double page spread in The Telegraph today about the Princess of Wales and Sarah Burton for Alexander McQueen. Must admit I only really take an interest in the Royals when there's either a wedding or a scandal so I hadn't realised how close things had got.

botemp · 13/09/2023 14:37

Pics please 🙏, also Rise & Fall seems to be back up again. The bedding got a good write up in the The Independent recently.

Rise & Fall

Luxury goods without luxury prices. Shop 100s of luxury products direct from the same manufacturers who make for your favourite luxury brands.

https://riseandfall.co

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CrkdLttrCrkdLttr · 13/09/2023 15:47

Just had a look at Rise & Fall. Nice idea - but must they be so combative?

botemp · 13/09/2023 16:47

You mean combative with price and other selective comparison charts? Yes, that stood out to me too, and it niggles in the sense that it perpetuates the idea that high end is just an inflated price tag.

Certainly true in some places, and depressingly seems to be on the rise, but it also ignores the value of good design and craft, which isn't as easily measurable but does have added value.

I guess they'd struggle to stand out in the sea of DTC businesses all claiming, we offer high quality basics at reasonable prices, sustainable and socially responsible which often isn't the case, or not as rosely as presented.

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CrkdLttrCrkdLttr · 13/09/2023 18:00

Mmm … Everyone wants good value, but with all the infinite competition I’m likely to shop from sites that I feel speak my language and bring a bit of fun and romance to online shopping. Bad-mouthing other brands isn’t the coolest look. I might choose to buy my white t shirt more expensively somewhere else because that site tells a more attractive story.

Anyway! That Torygraph article was revelatory. It set out exactly why I haven’t felt any yearning towards Alexandra McQueen as a brand for ages, even if I occasionally see pieces I quite like. Thanks for the link, @Floisme.

hashisucks · 13/09/2023 18:49

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr I enjoy these threads but don’t usually post - can’t resist saying be careful if you do jump on the ferry you go to Aran not Arran 😁

CrkdLttrCrkdLttr · 13/09/2023 20:22

My bad! Blush

Point still stands …

Floisme · 13/09/2023 20:48

It was revelatory wasn't it Crkd, I had no idea it was such a close and cosy set-up between Burton and the Princess of Wales. I can understand how the PoW might come to rely on Burton's skills and discretion but I can also imagine McQueen watching and wondering if it was quite the image they'd had in mind.

I'm not entirely sold on Rise & Fall but then I enjoy dilemmas about getting dressed and so anyone who says their aim is to make it easy or who yammers on about capsule wardrobes is never going to resonate with me. Some of the individual pieces could be good and if they had the right kind of T shirts I might have been tempted to take a punt. But they don't.

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banivani · 13/09/2023 21:04

That OST site was lovely, great thing to look through.

I feel exactly the same as Crkd on 8/9 at 6.37 there - you are so right, it's just another side of the same bloody coin.

I think I mean expensive motor boats rather than sailing tbh. Sailing is hard work!

Looked at your recent fight threads but sadly have had no time to contribute to them. I think I disagree with some opinions but agree with other. Good on you for attempting to have a discussion. Will try to read how they turned out!

Enjoyed the jeans article. I could do with a pair of jeans but find it very hard to find any that fit my flesh ruffles, sadly. I liked the look of the Tove jeans there's a picture of. Speaking of denim, I noticed that Arket have some denim with names that they use as if it's supposed to mean something to me, but it doesn't. LARK and TULSI and stuff with capitals. It's just nonsense right, it's their own jeans with names?

botemp · 13/09/2023 21:35

Lark is a bird, Tulsi is a herb, I think, something basil like? The other names are more straightforward nature adjacent, fern, willow, cloud, wave, etc. I don't object to them naming jeans (even if they're a bit 😒) if they're a standard model they bring back over and over again (with color variations) so you can buy the same pair again when the end comes to a beloved pair. Arket jeans are quite nice actually. But I agree, finding the right jeans is a torture ritual and I avoid it as much as I can and even I find some I spend the first few times wearing them deeply contemplating if I actually like them and then somehow find myself wearing them all the time 🤷

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