Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

Sorry, I am not advocating for toogood! It just that it seems to me that there are lots of brands in the price point £300-700 (Studio Nicholson, perhaps Raey, Neous, etc) that do produce some interesting designs with the weight of the fabric that can carry that design. I don't know if they have a lot of longevity in them, as companies, and I can't afford them full price but they do become affordable (to me) in sales (and especially eBay), unlike higher end brands.

I am not an advocate for "quality" which can be misconstrued, but I do expect ten years of life out of my every garment and I get upset and angry if things start looking crap in a few months. COS is like that, I am not willing to play the roulette anymore, whether something will keep looking decent or not.

Going to Margaret Howell sales teaches one that feeling of heavy dense fabric. Actually, going to MatchesFashion sales was very interesting because even if you don't like the design/can't afford it, you see that the quality of all clothes is very high. And the last time I went into COS, it felt crap. Ditto the charity shops around me, they are barren. I don't know at what point such a divide occurred (was busy working and having children)

@Enheduanna thank you! I do indeed do figure skating, it's so much fun and I trained professionally as a child (until around the age of 8 😅 ). All the other items are those mid luxury, I think they call it, brands, bought in sample sales. Neous for boots and - I think it's male - Boramy Viguier's bomber. Each item under a £100 - I think that's what OP advocates for, right? Exploration, stalking the brands, random discoveries, ambition for what you want and not settling in for "it will do". I find that now I am approaching 50, that's the way to go. This board and les parisiennes have been instrumental to my learning

‘White Boots’! One of my favourite Streatfeild books. In fact one of my all time favourite books ever - though I’ve only been in a skating rink about three times in my life.

Your ‘haul’ looks fabulous. Love the shape of the (black) boots. You must look awesomely imposing striding across the landscape thus attired. (Are you sure you wouldn’t prefer a nice Bombshell dress?)

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr 😂Maybe when I am 80?

My Ma is over 90 and would look if I suggested anything like …

I don't know, maybe if you wear a bombshell dress over a hoodie? [trying to think of other ways]

also, botemp, you are talking upthread about people trying to look creative without being creative. There are a lot of people working in the creative industries in the UK; it makes for a higher proportion of GDP than pharma. So there is a great appetite for that kind of dressing as well. (A lot of these silhouettes seem to be japanese-inspired; another question as to why that is the source for our ideas about creativity expressed in clothing)

In defense of Bombshell, it caters to a group that gets shut out elsewhere (curvy women who are not Amazonians), so while it may not be my thing I'm glad it exists.

So there is a great appetite for that kind of dressing as well.

But there’s surely no requirement for all creative professionals to dress in the same way - or to advertise their creativity through very deliberate dressing? The noticeably ‘individual’ dressers amongst my peers are in a tiny minority. Most are in jeans, t shirts, trainers.

I have no objection to Bombshell existing. And women always look very nice in the clothes. But it’s got to the point - at least on this site - where it’s almost the only acceptable suggestion on any wedding guest thread.

micro love your outfit and also how it looks set against that wall and those floor tiles!

completely agree about the denial of how much I for one spend on never worn eBay/ charity shop items. I definitely try not to think about it because when I do I realise I really could buy a very few exceptional pieces a year. I have definitely become more slapdash as the balance from buying mostly new and some second hand tipped into the other direction. As far as brands are concerned I remember in my 20s if I found a piece of serious designer treasure (the late 80s early 90s were amazingly fruitful), I would always question myself: would I buy this if the label said Next or River Island ie I am I getting over excited about the designer label rather than the material, cut and how much piece actually suits me? Tbh am much more slapdash nowadays…

I suppose Bombshell is one of those things where you get really evangelical about when you just discover it. I'll take your word for it on wedding threads, I don't really look into those as I'm useless with wedding advice.

I think the creative dressing when not creative in the creative industry <breathes> is just a sort of wanting to belong and not stand out. Creatives can be judgy fuckers <ahem> but it's often more abstract but if you're not in that mindset it and haven't been blunted by an education of grinding critiques of your precious work it can definitely feel as berating/sneering when often it's just observation and odd things are exciting and therefore noteworthy.

As for Japanmania, I do think as Enheduanna says, it's a country that existed within self imposed isolation for very long so it has very unique traditions in that sense. There's also a lot more respect for craft, and seeking out the highest form of craft is considered a sort of spiritual meditation and the closest you can come to the divine so they go very far with it. We traded out craft for industrial efficiency (Japanese industry is different too, it doesn't imitate humans) so true craft will have appeal as something exotic. But also, soft diplomacy through media/games. For that, see also, South Korea, W Concept is a great site to get lost on.

On the charity shop topic, I’m another one who shops almost exclusively second-hand by choice but I am aware that this needs time and can be as unsuccessful and unsatisfying as ‘regular’ shopping. Instead of spending money with brands directly, I’m spending time - not everyone has that option or preference.

I’m also mindful that there is an impending catastrophe in this sector, when the supply of even-now-increasingly-rare good quality items dries up and there is only the ocean of polyester from Shein, Primark and the rest.

It will be <ahem> interesting to see what will happen to the charity shop in the next decade.

Also, it was Japanese (and Belgian) designers that sort of started the anti-fashion movement. While there was a whole philosophy about it, in marketing terms it meant clothes that are never in or out of fashion but still distinctive. Which is appealing to those who work in related industries where being unfashionable would be preferable to a fashion victim because the latter would suggest you're not perceptive enough to be ahead of the curve which is somewhat part of the job description. In past years it's gained traction again, in a wider mainstream, with more focus on the Japanese designers, I suspect it's a reaction to how social media and mainstream fashion interacts as well as the hegemony of the conglomerates.

I don't follow the wedding S&B threads and had never heard of Bombshell, so wondered if it was a dress shaped like a bombshell or a dress worn by a female bombshell. The dresses look fine but I'm not sure if I would ever wear one.

I love the japanese-style clothes.

“being unfashionable would be preferable to a fashion victim because the latter would suggest you're not perceptive enough to be ahead of the curve”

bo this is really interesting! But of course it must be the right kind of unfashionable, not the Zoolander “I got this in JC Penney. On sale” kind

On the charity shop topic, I’m another one who shops almost exclusively second-hand by choice but I am aware that this needs time and can be as unsuccessful and unsatisfying as ‘regular’ shopping. Instead of spending money with brands directly, I’m spending time - not everyone has that option or preference.

I’m also mindful that there is an impending catastrophe in this sector, when the supply of even-now-increasingly-rare good quality items dries up and there is only the ocean of polyester from Shein, Primark and the rest
I'm very similar to you and prefer to shop second hand, and also find that a lot of the items in shops now are poor quality fast fashion.
I've also found out why some local shops have lots of brand new with tags fast fashion items. It's because some of the fast fashion companies 'donate' their unwanted garments to charity, and get tax relief against it IIRC. So seeing a rack of NastyGal/Pretty Little Thing with tags is actually companies getting money for dumping their unwanted stock.

I was close to giving up on, or at least winding down, on charity shops. But now I'm retired I've discovered one that wasn't on my usual local circuit and that has a genuine vintage section. It's run by a hospice and I assume a lot of their donations come from bereaved families. It wipes the floor with the so-called vintage chain stores opening up all around me.

But I agree with other posters that the general trend is accelerating downwards. Also I can only go regularly because I'm retired now and I've got more time. I do roll my eyes A Lot when I see posters with 3 children under 5 being advised to use them.

Bo, you are onto something, with a renewed interest to Japanese via Japanese/Antwerp school anti-fashion history due to the rise and rise of influencers, Instagram and LMVH. And undying goth too..

I guess this aesthetic was also bubbling along (I had a similar trousers to the ones I just bought which I had got in Amsterdam in Cora Kemperman in the year 2003 I reckon) for the reasons you describe, which might be related to why people in fashion, like Anna Wintour but also Lagerfeld or Chiurri, you name it, all adopt a uniform. Not that they are afraid to get it wrong but [here I tried to but can't come up with an eloquently expressed summary of reasons; we could speculate together]

I bought so much shit in charity shops, with only two real treasures found over the last year, that I think I could have bought a very nice item indeed if I have saved this money. I am lacking in everyday wear and good everyday things are often worn to death and don't end up on eBay/vinted and charity shops. Just look how many high heeled boots / shoes from high-end brands you can find second-hand while you'd struggle to find their equivalents in flatties. I think I am now developing an eye as to why an item is on vinted; often there is something odd about it which makes it not function as a work horse (which is what I need). Maybe for going out clothes, these get saved, but definitely not the everyday clothes for me...

Well here's my contribution, within the fashion spheres 'the uniform' is sort of the ultimate power move, it's only afforded to people who are 'above it' and clearly not the security guard. Anyone else in those clothes wouldn't get the same reception, in a world where a lot of status is afforded to clothes they don't need clothes to gain status. They knowingly undermine and enforce the principles on which their industry is built.

On MN the 'uniform' thing I mostly read it as I have a full time job, young kids, a husband who paints his Warhammer figurines instead of putting the bins out and does about half of what I ask him and asking again and again would take more effort than doing it myself. I barely have time to brush my hair never mind look in a mirror, so if clothes are a thing I don't have to think about and can just put on and feel good enough in, I'll take it.

Sorry if this is now a derail but I keep losing track. I meant to say upthread that I think modern synthetics are way, way better than they were in the 60s/70s/80s, when they truly were horrible but still popular, not least because they washed and dried well.

When I was a child / teenager I much preferred an acrylic jumper to a wool one because wool was so scratchy. Jeans with no lycra could take days to dry (no central heating let alone a tumble drier) and when they did, they set like concrete. I remember linen and silk as luxury fabrics and don't recall seeing them on the high street until the 80s.
In short I'm a bit sceptical that there was ever a golden age of natural fabrics.