Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

My childhood was perfectly comfortable by the way! It's just that sometimes when I see complaint after complaint about synthetic fabrics, I catch myself thinking 'You don't know you're born'

Ooh I had a crimplene dress with a stand up collar and a zip with a big ring that went up the front. Up the Front. I'll never love a dress the way I loved that one.

But yes, synthetics were liberating at the time. And while I know there are environmental concerns about them, I think the big reason we get on much better now with cotton and wool etc is that it's easier to dry them cos.... central heating.

I agree with you about the perils of greenwashing Kitty and I don't mean mean to pick on you IndianSummer but your post is a fairly good example of it in effect.

And this is why I don't bother posting much any more. There's always someone comes along to slate your opinion. I never claimed to be an ethical consumer. I know I'm very far from that, although I would like to be more so and I am trying. The company I mentioned I buy more expensive things from also doesn't claim to be perfect. I was just responding to someone asking what the middle ground looks like for each of us. Yet here you are telling me my opinion on what works for me is wrong.

How can I be greenwashing when I'm not claiming to be green? All I said was I'm happy to pay more for a superior quality product (which it is in terms of construction, the clothing is properly made without cutting corners, and when compared to fast fashion (and that's all I ever did compare it to)) made by someone who doesn't use slave labour. WTF is wrong with that?

But hey ho it's Mumsnet I guess - unless you're spending several hundrds of pounds on one ugly boring item of clothing made from organically grown fabric hand spun by pixies bathed in gold light, you can't possibly be doing fashion correctly

I think the Bombshell point is a good one. That style is not my thing - I’m the opposite shape, swiftly sliding from straight up and down into apple territory as I age, so I can only dream of having a waist to show off. But the fact is, finding something that looks good on one’s own body is often the overriding motivation.

I’ve just received an order of a couple of pairs of generic black trousers. Nothing so interesting as anything on this thread; very pedestrian in fact and exactly what we are discussing getting away from! One pair from Baukjen, one from Kinn. The Kinn pair are heavier, and the tailoring better quality. They are also a little cheaper. On the hanger, I prefer the Kinn ones. But which look better on me? The Baukjen ones, by a country mile. Sigh.

With the best will in the world, people are going to buy what looks good on them. I love Microbius’ new trousers and I would love to look like that in them, but I know I wouldn’t. So like the women buying Bombshell because it suits them, I’ll be keeping the Baukjen trousers.

I'm always intrigued by the race to the bottom in clothing manufacture; brands such as Zara or Uniqlo selling cashmere and merino at rock bottom prices. C'mon, it isn't convincing is it? Something and someone is feeling the pinch here.

We have thoroughly unrealistic pricing at one end - £200 for a bland, printed tee. And then improbably cheap pickings at the other - Poundland, Asda, Primark and so on.

The mainstream market has been gaslighting us for a few decades. What was once perceived as a reasonable price for an item of clothing has been being pushed down and further down (deceptively) since the 80's.
I purchased a long, red, wool coat from Topshop for my 21st birthday, it cost £100. This would have been around 1994. Funnily enough I would have been able to spend the exact same on a wool coat from Topshop just before they golden on the high street. Now what gives?
The quality, the outsourced manufacture, the fabric, that's what gives. And the perception of the public, the expectation to be able to source endless amounts of fabulous clothing at rock bottom prices with absolutely no frigging mention of inflation.

I know people who honestly believe that paying more than £20 for a wool jumper is 'daylight robbery'.
Something certainly has them duped. We have ben trained to expect less and to buy it often, and this honestly applies to food also.

folded not golden.

I'm sorry, that was not my intention at all IndianSummer, it was more about how greenwashing marketing influences our purchases and makes us personally responsible for things they should really feel responsibility for instead. I was more commenting on how you felt you needed to justify your choices to us on here, it really should just be okay to buy what works for you without needing to explain that. There's very little marketable about truly sustainable/responsible/ethical, it would basically be don't buy anything, it's easier for the marketing to lay the blame with the consumers and insinuate wrong doing/guilt for less good choices.

Wrt synthetic fabrics, it's pretty difficult not to own any, and they have their uses. They're not the best choice environmentally but cotton and cashmere don't come out looking good either.

There's always someone comes along to slate your opinion.
That's my experience too.

In the 1970s, synthetics were washed less frequently.
I prefer a good acrylic jumper to a wool one. Cashmere and merino are lovely, but once you've had to bin several in one go because of moth damage, you won't be in a hurry to restock. A good acrylic jumper (M&S is good at this)will look like wool and will wash like a dream. It won't have the warmth or softness, but it will last longer.

After seeing the photos, I am intrigued by Toogood and would like to try them on.

I would also suggest that any artisanal/back to nature style brand that relies heavily upon traditional 'lifestyle' concepts and the 'creative intelligence' of their target customer is more likely to get away with ludicrous overpricing, even if we factor in the ethical treatment of workers and environmental consideration.

I can say that every single thing that I have ever purchased from Toast has been of phenomenal quality, and over a long period of time, too. I find their campaigns a bit toe curling but forgivable in a market such as this.
I could write a synopsis of the imagined 'Toast Woman' (the woman they imagine us to be, which is likely way off base).

Cos on the other hand have never impressed me. Nice aesthetic, lovely idea, but I see a heck of a lot of (unnecessary) excess fabric, usually in a decidedly unpleasant shiny and perpetually navy cotton, and then there's the unimpressive cashmere. I experienced holes, soon after purchase with all merino items bought from COS.

Went in M&S for the first time in a while in Kendal (I know, lol, not a great example of a flagship) and came away nonplussed. I have no idea how they are so popular on MN, everything looks so desperately trend focused yet 'off' somehow - cheaply made, lazy design and yet most probably the best we can find on the highstreet :(

I live in the Lakes, in the north west. Not a lot of access to much, here, and the charity shops are rather dull and tired, fighting for attention between Beatrix Potter doodads and stretched canvases of highland bloody cows.. I do have success with ebay and have to purchase most of my clothes online, yet a quick trip to Manchester or Liverpool (I like John Lewis) usually feels like a let down.

Yes yes re wool coats, Kitty . I have a pretty vivid memory of being taken to C&A in Leeds for a winter coat when I was five. I remember it because it was a big event.

I remember the coat - black and white houndstooth check wool. It was lovely, and I remember trying to behave in a very serious and formal manner, and not nag to sit on the Palomino horse thing even though I was desperate to, because I sensed the event was not to be taken lightly. And this was because the coat cost £20, which in 1979, in amongst the dark satanic mills, was a big deal.

I remember the price because to five year old me, it was remarkable. I was careful with that coat, and appreciated it. Something that I think of now when I see ds dragging his coat along the ground or rubbing the sleeve along a flint wall.

Crikey I was obsessed with the black C&A horse in Wigan, our closest town when I was little. I grew up on a semi rural farm near Gathurst so it was such a treat to visit the bustling town centre (now much maligned i'm sorry to say). Hardly any shops remaining there now.

It had what I recall to be a leather western saddle.

I’m so glad someone else remembers the C&A horses! I don’t know why they called it a Palomino. It wasn’t. Black with coloured splodges, and yes, a western saddle. The stuff of dreams.

Bring back memories?

@Kittycattenklump , M&S stock varies from branch to branch. Some stores are dreary, and others great. Many of the M&S stuff I pick up is 2nd hand, and old M&S and Bhs stuff was rather good.
I live near London and there are lots of well-to-do areas nearby. My local charity shops are full of Shein and Boohoo but with occasional gems. They get rejects from other stores, and the clientele won't necessarily be looking for the same stuff as me.

I'm not particularly impressed by COS either. Somehow I feel it must be good because of the label, but it doesn't thrill me.

As regards everyday clothes, one way of finding it second hand and in good condition is if the sizing is off-kilter. If you've ever bought something and not tried it on immediately, you might get a shock when you get round to wearing it because it is unexpectedly large or small for the size.

A good acrylic jumper (M&S is good at this)will look like wool and will wash like a dream. It won't have the warmth or softness, but it will last longer.

Oh, no - I must protest! Warmth and softness are the essential constituents of wool. I wouldn’t want a jumper that lasted 100 years if it didn’t offer those two things. Very sorry - I cannot pretend to agree with you there!

Sorry, was distracted - I meant that warmth and softness are the essential constituents of an item I would wear to be warm and comfortable.

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr , you've not had a recent moth infestation.

This is true. (Thankfully I can only remember one thing destroyed by moths, and it belonged to another member of the family.)

I’m sorry you had to go through that, losing clothes is horribly painful.

But if I gave up on wool I’d probably turn to doubling up on thick cotton sweatshirts and thermal underwear.

Have you been able to Take Steps against the creatures?

Re woollens and moths: Ikea resealable food bags (the largest ones) are ideal. One item per bag - I can manage to fold jumpers so that they fit in.

www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/istad-resealable-bag-patterned-green-40525685/

In this current cold spell here in South Cumbria I am seeing a lot of teenage girls going about in sweatshirts/pants, no coats or waterproofs.
This seems to be a fairly sudden shift around here even with the older crowd, as previously everyone wore bright coloured Mountain Warehouse style gear....guess they grew tired of it.

In fact, I am seeing less weather related clothing in general (wool waterproofs, coats). I am going to presume sweatshirts doubled over something toasty might be a decent defence against the temperatures. Or it's just a passing trend. Not sure how they keep dry though.

Thanks for the C&A horse pic, I can still vividly recall the dizzying excitement of a meeting with mine