Let's do this. Fashion V Style.

[RhadamanthNemes]

This comes up all the time time.

I actually think the two are immutable.

You can't have one without the other.

Stylish people have a very particular ownership of themselves. They know what they love. See Daphne Guiness, Grace Coddington, Tilda Swinton. These women are stylish as fuck.

BUT, they are also fashionable. They are all very interested in fashion, and keep themselves current, by keeping an eye on, and being very interested in 'Fashion'.

I honestly don't think it's possible to be stylish without being fashoinable.

Fashionable doesn't mean fashion victim, it simply means, being interested in fashion and adapting current looks that fit in with one's personal style.

And yes, we can talk about the young 'uns.

BUT I think it's possible to be fashionable without being stylish.

It's not possible to be stylish without being fashionable

I agree - the “I don’t follow fashion, I’m stylish” people either do roughly follow fashion and adapt to suit their body shape /fit in with their look / only adopt fashions that suit their lifestyle and age, or they look dated and not really very stylish as they think.

Andrea Leadsom springs to mind. She’s neither stylish or fashionable but clearly has good quality clothes that fit her and her lifestyle.

I've never thought about Andrea Leadsom and clothes in the same headspace.

A quick Google, she looked best in the red leather jacket.

Politics and fashion is a tricky one. Especially for women. Too 'Conservative' and you're not in touch. Too 'alternative' (but not really) and you're Angela Rayner being derided for Doc Martens.

Remember Teresa May and her leopard flats?

I'd love to see a properly fashion-foward MP.

I agree with you @RhadamanthNemes to be truly stylish you need to understand your own body shape & adapt current fashions to suit you own style. If you don't you end up stuck in a rut & def not stylish. Princess Anne is a very good example. Wears expensive clothes, is always suitable attired for the occasion but is not stylish in the least. I think Kate Middleton sound easily end up in that zone as her style is very staid.

And people who slavishly follow 'fashion' no matter whether is suits them or not are often far from stylish.
I agree with your list of stylish people & I would add Cate Blanchette to that list too. She has a great style & understands what works for her whilst also always taking risks on the red carpet.

Could not sounds

Helen Mirren is also stylish

I'm not sure about Helen Mirren.

I never 'got' her. She's populist I guess. Relatable. But not super-stylish.

I feel the same about Kate Moss.

Kate Moss and Helen Mirren always look good. They don't push boundaries though. I think they both have a very 'good' safe look.

They look good because they are very attractive women, they'll always look 'good'. Which is why they are listed as style icons.

It doesn't float my boat!

Agree about Kate Moss - very beautiful but her clothes always look a bit cheap and shabby. I’m a big fan of understated/nonchalant but she doesn’t do it well. (Though I loved her wedding dress and look)

You are very brave op.

The haughty, 'I'm not a slave to fashion / I just wear what suits me' kind of statements drive me nuts. Do they honestly believe they decided what suits them all on their own, without any reference to trends?

I do think there are a handful of true originals, people and who are clever and inventive enough to create their own style without reference to fashions past or present. But I can't actually think of any examples - even Vivienne Westwood needed the Wallis Collection.

And then there are a few people who have their own look and who stick to it, regardless of fashion, for so long that eventually it becomes, if not exactly fashionable in itself then admired by fashionable people. I'd put Queen Elizabeth 2 in that Category.

The rest of us muddle through. We see someone looking good, be it on Instagram or on the telly or the bus or in the coffee shop or an art gallery and we think, 'How did they do that?'

It's difficult because the meaning of stylish/fashionable is context/person dependant. For me fashion is that very brief period where something is exclusive and coveted before it's ubiquitous but for others it just seems to be synonymous with whatever is popular.

Style I associate more with personal style and pretty much as in the OP the ability to carry off fashion as your own invention (and for me, again, it's existing outside the realms of ubiquity). When someone says “I don’t follow fashion, I’m stylish” I do tend to associate it with people adverse to change and pretty much wearing blue pastel eyeshadow all their life because it suits them and never wishing to try anything else. If that works for them, great, but stylish or even fashionable isn't anything fixed so to participate in it I do feel you need to embrace change to some extent, in my definition of stylish anyhow.

I do think that fashion outliers can promote change. Fashion isn't as flighty as most people think.

I loved Radclyffe Hall in my late 20s and took up smoking a pipe as an affectation. I knew what I was doing though. As did she!

I think Kate & Helen are stylish, they dress for what suits their lifestyle. I love Kates evening style.

I don't think you have to push boundaries to be stylish though.

@safeplanet Kate Moss looks brilliant.

In her Saint Laurent way.

She wears it well.

I'm not dissing Mossy.

I'm always surprised to see how long it takes for something to go from catwalk to the streets (and vice versa), even in the fast media age we live in now.

I think what has changed a lot over the last decade or so is the influence of data, previously you had highly respected editors, and journalists who more or less determined a lot. Now it's the trend forecasters backed up with data and that data is also manipulated. Good for business but it's made fashion a whole lot less interesting and fashion outliers seem to be an endangered species.

I think Zendaya has great style & is fashionable but that's also the stylist i guess. Rihanna dress sense isn't my style but I like her style & her ability to wear big clothes without them wearing her.

As someone who worked in fashion & was pretty obsessed with it I think it's a lot more boring now & homogeneous. I don't really get inspired by much in the shops or on celebs. Maybe it's because i'm older.

I wouldn’t put Helen Mirren and Kate Moss in same camp

I can’t recall anything HM has worn but KM has changed fashion and style amongst many with just an outfit or look

When fashion tells us what is in what is out, I get to decide whether I agree.
I'm not going to rush out to buy the latest thing if it's not 'Me', neither am I going to stubbornly wear something that was a bit of fun for a couple of years but I can see just doesn't look great anymore or in my view does look past it.
Nor am I going to chuck out my carefully created wardrobe full of items that I absolutely love, that fit well and make me feel and look amazing just because some 'expert' I've never met tells me it's not in this year.

Annebelle Neilson, Isabella Blow, Alexander Mcqueen

90s Fashion people.

Hmm as someone who is neither particularly stylish or fashionable but happy in my skin and what suits me, I think it's important to refresh things every two/three years. Even simple things like black trousers or a top. It's helpful to buy some new stuff every year because it keeps one up to date.

I don't think a high quality coat looks good after 10 years because the details will be wrong such as the collar, cut, etc. The same goes for other stuff. A blazer from 1989 will be quite wrong today.

I play to classic and boring but try to ring the changes as things are updated. I am 62 and know women of around my age who have been in elastic waisted trousers and the same sort of top for the last 10 years, worn with ecco or hotter specials. I have nothing against those makes, just the styles worn by some people. I have to have orthotics and I manage to avoid velcro on my shoes!

The haughty, 'I'm not a slave to fashion / I just wear what suits me' kind of statements drive me nuts. Do they honestly believe they decided what suits them all on their own, without any reference to trends?

They may well be influenced by trends, past and present, but they pick and choose what suits them and don’t feel the need to wear a particular style just because it is currently fashionable or, conversely, stop wearing something that is not currently regarded as being fashionable.

@RosesAndHellebores , as someone that posts on these boards constantly I'd say you probably dress quite interestingly.

n

Well that was a very interesting post @RhadamanthNemes . Clearly I need to post less.