What makes you think someone is poor?

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What makes you think someone is poor?

I'd really like to know because I've had so many people assume that I'm poor (and not just in the last few years). Not people that really know me but like shop assistents or nurses and such people. I've had plenty of remarks that something like the ronald mcdonalds house would cost me too much money (was 15 euro a night).

I'm not poor. Far from it. I'm a SAHM in a detached house in a nice village. I style my hair every other day, wear minimal make up, always wear some fine gold jewelry. Granted, I don't wear brand names, but I do wear a proper wool coat, real leather handbag and leather loafers. I prefer buying pieces that are good quality and last than just pay for a brand. I don't have a noticable regional accent. DH makes a lot of money. I used to be poor when younger and apparantly I still look it in some way.

I don't have to look like you should rob me, but I would like the concerned poor remarks go away. So tell me, when you see someone, what makes you think that they're poor?

I do think there are certain types of people (usually comfortably off, but not old-school posh) who think it is a sign of self-neglect not to spend a lot of time or money on your hair, and if you happen to like the type and colour of hair you were born with, you're still expected to change something about it just to show you're "making an effort." I refuse to get on board with this.

Good for you @CharitySchmarity@CharitySchmarity. I used to dye and straighten my naturally wavy hair due to bullying at school and I wrecked it. I started leaving it alone a few few years ago and let my ringlets grow and now I love it. My "styling" routine is just brushing it 😂

Totally agree with you @ChipsAndMayos . You have described the clothing & historical outlook eloquently. There is definitely a narrower band of clothing styles in some northern European countries. The UK style is very much more liberal and daring, that's what I often get told at Universities with students, they can spot the British exchange student immediately. And to be honest, so can I, but then equally when back in the UK, the EU female students (in my dept) do seem to dress very differently to the Home students. Same with the teaching staff. I too am more carefree when back home in the UK, and perhaps more conservative when in Germany and the Netherlands. It's the wonder of life

Yep @Explodingatomickittens , Yohanna Hanbury's style is definitely on point with who is in magazines / TV etc. I have a few mums at nursery who are mirror images of Mrs Hanbury's style. It isn't a bad thing, each to their own. I think I read that that style falls in line with clean eating, clean living etc, but there is also a bit of backlash in comment/ magazines because that style epitomises the fairytale ideology of European beauty. There are quite staunch critics (bloggers/ You tube etc in Germany & the Netherlands) of how that style cuts out diversity of shape and colour. Beige doesn't suit a variety of shapes (leggings/ leggings etc) or skin tones.

@TeaAddict235 even though Yohanna Hanbury is obviously old money & extremely wealthy(think she is also a German princess) I love her page as a form of escapism☺️Her husband Charlie is extremely handsome, their little girls are gorgeous & their home in the English countryside is idyllic. My dream life!

I know that this article is in S&B so is angled at what people wear and how they present, but to be honest it's basically a question about class.

I mean, how poor are we talking? I work in retail in an area that has crushing poverty right up against million pound houses, so I see and talk to hundreds of people a day.

If I'm looking at people who I think are one step away from homeless levels of poor then it's normally the lack of anything that could have been sold - no watch or jewellery, dirty clothes because they can't afford bills/laundrette. Belongings carried in a carrier bag rather than a handbag or rucksack. Unkempt or uncared for hair. No make up.

However - lots of working class people will dress extremely well - clean, ironed etc even if the clothes are from Asda and Primark. There's a lot more riding on your presentation when you're more likely to draw the eye of Social Services.
Also traditionally, working class families in working class areas had much stricter social 'rules' about wash days, laundry, 'Sunday best' etc.

You might have been on the bones of your arse and eating bread and dripping for tea but by God you were scrubbed with carbolic and had your scuffed school shoes filled in with marker pen. It's that tradition that has its roots in the Saturday night, all out dress up going out look. Also a demographic more likely to use credit to allow them to buy things that might be traditionally out of their budget.

Middle class people can send their kids out covered in dog hair and holey jumpers because they're bohemian and free, don't you know. The middle class people I see also wear an unholy amount of gym clothes as regular day wear, so they are signalling that they don't just have the time and money to go to the gym but are so hellishly busy that they don't have time to change - why they barely had time to grab this coffee from Gail's!

So I wouldn't know looking at the two types of people who was poorer in terms of how much was in the bank. I might assume the working class person was ( and I'd infer they were working class from accent as much as anything) just due to the fact that they were likely to have a blue collar job that paid less. Equally they could be a plumber and be raking it in.

Extremely rich people are outliers in this scenario as they can dress flashily, conservatively or like tramps.

@LadyOfTheCanyon, that's a fair post. It is about social class, and the ways in which/extent to which social class mandates self-presentation. But class is quite nuanced, especially when it mingles with nationality (I've moved around a fair bit in both terms) I agree there's a traditionally WC concern with looking respectable and 'not poor' (this is my mother), but there's also, for some, an expectation of extreme levels of grooming and glossy self-presentation for special occasions, or even just going out at the weekend. At the same event, the WC women and MC women may present completely differently I can think of a christening I was at where the WC women were extremely carefully dressed, had big, professional blowdries, a lot of makeup and newly-applied fake tan, and the MC women were wearing far less discernible make up and much more low-key clothes, and were generally pale.

Then there are lots of gradations within the MC too. Where I live is a near-city-centre UMC area full of senior medics, architects and academics because of proximity to universities and hospitals, and everyone walks or cycles everywhere and dresses accordingly -- expensive but low-key clothes suitable for all weather. You would rarely see anyone in gym gear during the working day. The women wear a lot of Margaret Howell, Cos, Oska.

I would associate daytime gym gear and coffee with more LMC, regardless of income.

London will be less geographically stratified than some other cities which ghettoise the social classes more.

Sorry, don't know how I made that strike-through.

😂

A “ First World” question

Things need to be brand spanking new, preferably with a label in order to be considered the wealthy classes. A very new and big car on the drive and minimalist lifestyle indoors.

Yes, we live in this region and the description is spot on. The whole ‘scruffy=posh’ scenario does not apply across the channel. My grandmother was German, and throughout my childhood they only ever drove brand new Audis that they would trade in every 3-5 years. They felt it was unsafe and shabby to drive older cars.

Medical staff like nurses always assume you'll need help financially. They aren't judging anyone but want to be sure their patients aren't going to have money issues with prescriptions etc. They treat everyone as if they're struggling with money.

As for shop assistants, well I say it's good they think you're broke because then they'll leave you alone. They always assume young people are broke and older folks have money.

Doesn't let the Mumsnet nastiness out for a trot though does it.?

I think it is about presence. It's hard to define.

If I take my mother and MIL as examples and they are both 87. They both speak well.

MIL is very school teacherish still. Quite scruffy, not terribly well co-ordinated, jeans with an elasticated waist or similar from M&S Classic range. Tatty handbag, not very well cut hair, her teeth have always been poor. She wears very old leather Van and Josef Seibel type lace-ups and has an air of "brown sandal" about her. Her toenails are discolourng and the big ones seem to be crumbling. She will be ignored in a shop. Her dentist told her about some cosmetic work for her broken teeth but said it was very expensive and if she wasn't in pain not necessary. No jewellery except a very worn wedding ring. MIL wears a reasonable quality padded jacket in winter. Without clothes, no value to what is being worn.

Mother: trained as a ballerina and still holds herself upright and with elegance and will say what she wants and look at who whe is asking. Loves clothes and always has. I visited last week and she was wearing well fitted beige capri type trousers with a cream and beige striped tee-shirt. Probably not expensive. Her hair is beautifully cut, she will have had a little make-up on. Her teeth are near perfect and I know she has spent money on them. Her shoes are usually neat and tidy and go with what she is wearing. She sees her chiropodist once a month. She has a good quality padded jacket in the winter. Without clothes, a couple of good rings, pearl earrings, good watch, about £20k.

MIL crumples, mother swishes. They are both worth over a million. Mother was born with much more, MIL with nothing. MIL is prone to envy. Mother lunches with her hairdresser; MIL snacks about hers going to the Costas and never reading.

Confidence and presence. Mother could wear a sack and not look poor, MIL could wear £3k of clothes and wear them like a sack.

Posture , voice , good grooming. Wealth .
Homemade tattoos, joggers , plastered in gold coloured jewellery, poverty .

@RosesAndHellebores

Very specific and incredibly outing comments there but you obviously don't care about that and how disloyal you sound.

Classy and classist are two totally different concepts. Some people on mumsnet give a good show in real life but funnily enough their true selves come out here. Being so judgy and disloyal is never classy but it is so often the case with people who consider themselves better than others

The continual confusion between 'classy' (meaning something along the lines of 'stylish and sophisticated') and 'behaviour indicative of a higher social class', plus the idea that people who are of a higher social class behave 'classily' is monumentally annoying on here.

Mind you, so is the idea that social class doesn't exist outside the bounds of Mn, because some posters 'never hear anyone talking about it'. Would it were so.

Sounds like throwaway comments and you are overthinking.

I think few people look their best straight after a section, especially when they have a child in special care. Nurses / Midwives know this better than anyone.

On the other hand, I believe the Dutch are the tallest nation in Europe and tall people are often read as richer so I wonder if being non-Dutch is somehow judged as not wealthy?

I'd imagine it's important to make people aware if they need to pay for the RM house. HCP wouldn't want to put people in an awkward position.

Sounds like throwaway comments and you are overthinking.

Agree. I think maybe it's something to do with being poor in the past.

That's so odd! And nothing about your description would make me think you were poor.

I think these days you cannot assume someone has or hasn't got money by the way they dress/look. I know a millionaire who drives an old car and shops secondhand, they are very generous to charities etc they are just not bothered about things.

I had someone think I was my parents cleaner🤣

That would be attitude and behaviour. Definitely neither clothes nor cars.
Something about trying too much, or being afraid, or feeling inadequate in any way that shows (sort of "I don't belong here and I know it"). Or not feeling free in certain environments.
Very hard to explain, but visually could be something like fear of not belonging or fear to lose everything? Or "I don't deserve this and everybody knows"?
Being poor and having low self-esteem, something like that?

I think people tend to judge you as poor if your clothes are in bad repair... it's not always a sign of poverty though! I'm an awkward shape - even my feet are awkward and if I really like the fit something, I'll keep wearing it until it's falling to pieces. I could easily afford to buy more, but it's finding stuff that fits me and suits me. I do a lot of basic mending of clothes to keep them going...

🤣🤣🤣.

People look the way they look for all sorts reasons…designer handbags and cars mean didly-squat.

I think PPs are right that it's often a matter of attitude and confidence though. I never get sneered at in shops or have people look through me or drift off to serve someone else, but I'm very direct and ask for help if I need it. I don't wait to be asked "Can I help you, madam?" at cosmetic counters! I just say "I need a concealer/new mascara/foundation in x shade, please" and they jump to it. And I'm short, fat and middle-aged too.