How you dress teaches people how to treat you

[Firerybadger]

Wondering how much truth there is in this sm gem I’ve just seen as I’m of the comfort above everything type. If it’s true maybe I’ll get treated differently by the world

I think I read that people take 3 seconds to assess you on first acquaintance.

So old hoodie, untidy hair or smart jacket and neat hair will make a difference.

Of course. Present yourself well ( not necessarily expensively, but with a bit of thought and clean clothes, hair etc) and it shows you respect yourself which prompts others to treat you with respect too.

I'm an academic and have been told to my face that the way I dress means people think I'm less intelligent. The advice was to dress as if you've been sat working at your desk for 5 days solid, sleeping in an old t-shirt and jeans and then people will treat you like you know what you're talking about rather than trying to fool them with the facade of attire.

But then I've also been told that academic women need to power dress.

Either way the idea is to look more masculine.

I'm an academic and have been told to my face that the way I dress means people think I'm less intelligent.

I can believe that. I'm a scientist (in pharma rather than academia) and have sat in interview panels where some of the older men didn't want to recruit a young woman because she had high heels, painted nails and makeup on (i.e. she had dressed smartly for the interview), they didn't think she'd be happy working in a lab. There is definitely a trend for people with high status, either class or educationally, distrusting those who clearly have put some effort into their appearance, it's seen as trying too hard.

Meanwhile, as can be seen on this thread, some people think you will always be treated better if you are dressed formally. My Mum (in her 70s) was horrified that her (country) solicitor was wearing an open collared button down shirt when she went to his office to discuss a financial document. DB and I could not convince her that smart casual was perfectly acceptable business wear these days. Different tribes believe different things (I get told off for wearing 'scruffy' trainers when on holiday with her, she doesn't know my trainers cost at least double hers).

I think anyone on here claiming that they don't care how someone appears and dresses and it has no influence on their perception of the individual are fooling themselves.

When I worked in Oxford St as a young adult a professional group of high level shoplifters were caught. They had stolen 10s of thousands of pounds of high end goods and all of them looked very respectable and would just blend in. They had been working the area for months.. This is how frauds and con men and women work, they are realistic and knowledgeable about human nature and know we definitely make assumptions about people and they work that.

A woman who was a spy master in the FBI said an agent in disguise would just be a very ordinary looking person in the corner. The point was to blend in and not draw attention to yourself.

Opps she was with the CIA and was their chief of disguise. Its interesting as she said they could change a woman into a man but it was almost impossible to turn a man into a woman.

An example of perception is that she says people find older men less threatening than younger men so they would age the younger men when disguising them.

they didn't think she'd be happy working in a lab. There is definitely a trend for people with high status, either class or educationally, distrusting those who clearly have put some effort into their appearance, it's seen as trying too hard

to be fair, if you’re going for a lab job then heels/nails/makeup aren’t appropriate in the same way it would be for say a customer presenting job. In my lab you simply can’t maintain nails, heels are against h&s (need steel caps), and make up isn’t allowed in sterile areas.

we wouldn’t see it as trying too hard, but it may flag a concern that the candidate didn’t fully understand the nature of the work, and would need to dress very differently and lower their expectations of maintaining painted nails etc.

I'll give another example. This forum constantly makes reference to people with blue hair to the point "blue hairs" is now shorthand for a specific type of person (very young, ultra-liberal, very "woke" university student who can't talk about anything except critical race theory, TWAW and veganism).

I live next to an extremely deprived part of London and lots of women here have hair dyed unnatural colours. More than I ever saw when I was studying at a 'woke' London uni. Most women who have blue or green or pink hair are middle aged, working class and live on a notoriously rough council estate covered in England flags.

So the stereotype that blue hair = young wokesters is not accurate. But that is the stereotype and people make assumptions accordingly.

If you saw a young person with blue hair you probably would assume they're a woke vegan uni student, wouldn't you? But perhaps not if it was a 50-something with blue hair.

I would associate blue hair with your last description. Not an ultra hip student.

Green hair maybe but not blue.

And yet the woman in question rarely wears heels normally, she was dressed up for the interview (I've worked with her for years). Assuming a woman who is wearing formal dress for an interview is incapable of wearing practical clothes when required is misogynistic (as we pointed out to the dinosaurs at the interview). It's not women's fault that formal women's clothes are impractical.

It's not women's fault that formal women's clothes are impractical

it is a woman’s choice to wear those clothes though. There are many options for formal womens clothes, not all are impractical.

i have never worn heels or painted nails to any interview or formal occasion. They aren’t compulsory.

Hear hear!!! Absolutely spot on

@FionaMacCool thank you for your concern. I’m ok, averagely treated - it was more idly musing really and wondering if how we presented overruled the initial 3 second assumptions.

Appearance can convey a lot, and can be used to create an impact or an effect.
It does go way beyond clothes though.

Someone also said that there are other signifiers of class / wealth too. Being able to look after your skin and teeth for example, having a nutritious diet, being able to do some form of exercise- so much so that yoga brands for example ( LULULEMON) are subtle signifiers of status.

So I don't really wear designer labels - but I do have nice jeans, crisp white cotton tees and nice jewellery. I can also afford to get my hair highlighted and have a job / home set up that allows me to run regularly. We can afford fresh vegetables and produce.

I iron or steam my clothes, accessorise well, can buy clothes that last and so can look professional and capable whilst not being in a power suit or Uber groomed or ultra conservative.

I work in professional services around technology and learning.

It's not as binary as bag lady to power suit.

I really recommend that book to you, Firery.
It recounts (if I remember correctly) some experiments where they had students pose to solicit charity donations.
They dressed a group the same, with one half having a Tommy Hilfiger logo on their t-shirts. Guess which group received more donations?
In another he recounts that they set up a situation where a car appears to have stalled at traffic lights. An older, beaten up car would be beeped and shouted at much more quickly than a new, well maintained one.
There were lots of other examples of how people's perceptions can be manipulated.

The thing is- if you are aware of it, it doesn't mean that you have to go out and spend a fortune on labelled clothes and a new car.
Instead you can work on your own presentation i.e. body language, neat hair, clean shoes etc.

It's certainly true to extent but it's not an excuse for poor treatment or being given special treatment for that matter. Professionals she see past dress and we should be more concerned about experience and ability than how someone dresses!

In my experience if you are reasonably smartly dressed you seem to treated more as a partner in healthcare, the context here is elder care and I was the appointed person to coordinate for the family - when mil talked to them previously she got nowhere, it wasn't just dress of course it was attitude, language used etc

it wasn't just dress of course it was attitude, language used etc

And, of course, voice / accent.

Agree with StolenWillowTree’s post.

They dressed a group the same, with one half having a Tommy Hilfiger logo on their t-shirts. Guess which group received more donations?

what did the other group have? Just plain t-shirt? Which group did get more? I would give to the non-logo wearers.

I was a teenager in the 70s- there's no way jeans were as ubiquitous, even on teenagers as they are now.

And me- born 1959. Brief period in the 70s of wearing very tight men's Levi's.

Who got more in donations.... the ones with the logos.

We all think that we would give more to the "more deserving" but studies often show that the majority of us dont operate in that logical way.
It's just science, I'm not saying you're right or wrong.

I pay attention to it when I need to ensure that my appearance supports my job. Or, if I need to have a difficult conversation with my team. Or, indeed, when I go out for my morning walk- I dont go in scruffs, I tie up hair and ensure my t-shirt is clean....cos you never know who you'd meet.

@CallmeMrsPricklepants Continuing the academics discussion:

What I found very interesting that over time I came to the conclusion that the man's suit is the best clothes for a female academic. It could be a variety of a "mad professor jacket". I have a few in my wardrobe. I have professor blazers and normal blazers - a separate wardrobe for work is like an armour and good old formal suiting -is best for getting the students to respect you. [it is well known that female and ethnic minority lecturers get harder time from the students, their evaluations are always a tad worse, and one needs extra effort/consideration/clothing to woo students ]

Having said that, a vast majority of my colleagues dress terribly but that is because we are in a new poverty. Years of low funding for PhDs, precarious work and low salaries for starting academics. No One can afford to dress well

@goherbie Reading your post I remembered how I worked at one of the top unis that is positioned in a deprived mid England part of the country. The Uni is a big employer there (in terms of admin). I went to some training event and virtually all admin people were working class women dressed in smart dresses and heels and all academics were wearing scruffy jeans and jumpers. Even though many academics were foreigners and wouldn't easily fit into the class system here, this was clearly a class-based / tribe-based division

Google UK 1970s teenagers. Every other photo is of teen boys in flared jeans.