How you dress teaches people how to treat you

[Firerybadger]

Wondering how much truth there is in this sm gem I’ve just seen as I’m of the comfort above everything type. If it’s true maybe I’ll get treated differently by the world

Are you very young? Jeans were certainly very very common and normal everyday wear in the 1980s and 1990s. I wore jeans pretty much every single day in the 1990s, as did most people I know. The idea that jeans weren't considered every day wear until the 2000s is quite baffling.

My dad was a teenager in the 1970s when jeans were commonplace, so age isn't a factor, just class. My mum and her family who were working class all wore jeans.

Naaah. I’ve stepped out in joggers and grays hair, and been told how well I look. I looked shit. I’m intelligent and well-spoken with a great job. I don’t particularly care how strangers perceive me.

But again, "joggers and grey hair." Not shiny tracksuit and blingy LV purse.

I bet anything the people bragging about how they don't care about clothes or appearance would not be caught dead in the kind of clothes the TOWIE cast wears.

No, l was a young adult in the 80’s. I used to lecture history of fashion.

Jeans we’re not commonplace amongst older people in the 80’s and early 90’s. They became more widespread as people grew up with them. They started as a young person item and only became mainstream at the end of last century/beginning of this.

l don’t remember any older men wearing jeans when l was wearing my 501’s in the 80’s.

Plenty of 50 and 60 year olds wear them niw, but less common amongs 70 and over.

My uncles were born in 1930s. We have pictures of them wearing jeans in 1950s. James Dean look & all that.

it's about your 'tribe'

How does one know what "tribe" you're in?

I know where jeans came from! But they weren’t worn by older people for years. Were you uncles wearing them at 60? In the 90’s?

Finding your tribe is about decoding. It means rejecting lots of other tribes. But it will be people who shop where you shop, have similar interests, and spending power. Probably educational levels too.

Well my dad wasn't an older person in the 1980s and 1990s, so not sure what relevance that has.

Postgrad degree holder, mostly shops in Sainsburys, not worried about CoL rise, goes kayaking. What tribe is that? What would you predict about how I dress based on me belong to the "tribe" that does those things?

Do I "change tribe" on weeks I shop more in Lidl & go to swim pool instead of kayaking?

ps`: my mother born in 1940 wore jeans all her life. Can't recall uncles dress in 1970s so specifically, they wore tennis clothes a lot, though, in every decade.

I think you are a bit out on your ages or it is your definition of older.

My grandmother who was born in the 1910s would not ever have worn jeans. She considered slacks on ladies to be a bit scruffy and only for certain types of occasions. She rarely went out without a hat.

Her eldest child was born during WW2 and is still wearing jeans on a regular basis.

Anyone who was a teenager in the 50s or younger would have worn jeans regularly it is those who were already adults by then who never really "got" jeans.

I didn’t see them on on people born in the 30’s

Born in the 40’s 50’s and 60’s yeah they’d wear them. Less so those born in the 40’s.

Its not just about dates, it’s about the increasing infofmalisation of society. Dress down Fridays were a 90’s thing. Although were more chino focused than jeans. But that was the tail end of the informalisation, breaking into the last taboo of business. No one wore jeans in my workplaces in the 80’s and 90’s. Ds wears them every day to a professional job. Smart jeans are now businesswear. They weren’t 20 years ago.

It's very obviously true! Anyone who says it isn't is deluding themselves.

The entire conversational detour about jeans started because I mentioned that my dad (born in the 1960s) didn't own jeans and regarded old but high quality cashmere as "casual and scruffy" - to make a point that how English people (no doubt people in other countries have their own version, but England is very class obsessed) choose to dress is consciously or subconsciously linked with class and class anxieties.

How frequently does MN have threads that are literally titled things like "Middle class clothing" or "Middle class signifiers" where everyone fights over whether Boden is middle-middle or upper-middle? How many zillions of posts are there pushing the idea that upper class people are all lovely down to earth doggie types who drive ancient range rovers and wear jumpers with holes in them, and that only the ghastly noveau riche wear designer labels? How many fashion threads, or even non-fashion threads, sneering at clothes that are coded/perceived as being working class? How often does this forum see snobbish comments about things like logos, denigrating them as vulgar and common?

This forum is super obsessed with class and class signifiers and stereotypes. It's hard to believe that anyone who's a regular on MN isn't aware of that. Sure there are plenty of people who really don't care, but there are also an awful lot of people who humble brag about how they wear old scruffy clothes in order to (maybe consciously, maybe subconsciously) try to associate themselves with a very specific stereotype that's coded as being upper class. I wonder how many of the posters saying they don't care what they wear would happily wear a t-shirt with GUCCI spelled out in rhinestones on the front, if given one as a present? If you genuinely don't care what you wear then you would.

I run my own company, it's in the leisure field and I have no need to wear a suit ever. However if I turn up to a pitch, or even a networking event in my company branded hoodie and jeans (so smart but definitely casual) I don't get the time of day, they dismiss me as a hobbyist business. I turn up in a shirt and trousers or a tailored dress, they actually talk to me, or listen to my pitch, realise I run 14 sites and have a very healthy 7 figure turnover and suddenly they want to know how we can work together. It drives me insane but it is what it is.

Yes, but then it's appropriate for the occasion.

"That said, I think these days there's a much wider bandwidth of what counts as acceptable, I go to graduations and the academics are much scruffier than the parents! All communication, whether we like it or not."

It's another day for the academics, but a special occasion for the parents.

"I-one cares about education or job title. Its all about the outward appearance of wealth. If you look rich or others have the perception of you being rich people treat you differently."

No, wealth is obviously not the only thing that determines how people think of you and treat you.
Status is probably more important, but there are probably lots of other things too like the messages received about your personality.

"Jeans were certainly very very common and normal everyday wear in the 1980s and 1990s. I wore jeans pretty much every single day in the 1990s, as did most people I know. The idea that jeans weren't considered every day wear until the 2000s is quite baffling."

I think the poster meant for old people and I'd definitely agree with that. My dad in his 70s would never wear jeans. He's not posh and does wear tracksuits. My mum would, but she's a bit younger and was always younger in her style. I remember in the 90s if middle aged people wore jeans they were considered a bit 'sad' and trying to be down with the kids.

My grandmother who was born in the 1910s would not ever have worn jeans. She considered slacks on ladies to be a bit scruffy and only for certain types of occasions. She rarely went out without a hat

This made me smile, because it sounds exactly like me, but I was born in the late 1990s.

"Anyone who was a teenager in the 50s or younger would have worn jeans regularly it is those who were already adults by then who never really "got" jeans."

I think this might be regional because this doesn't make sense to me.

Do I "change tribe" on weeks I shop more in Lidl & go to swim pool instead of kayaking?

Nope.

You may be in a tribe of one.

Or you may one day find your tribe. Or notice that you fit comfortably, with ease, into more than one tribe.

It's about finding people with whom you fit. Good luck.

I'd like to award an 'honourable mention' to one place where there must have been training in place to avoid reacting to initial impressions.

BA's club and first check in desks.

Last century, I travelled a lot for business and built up a gold status on the BA loyalty programme. This means that even travelling on 'free' air miles flights, I am entitled to use the club and first class check in desks. I dress for comfort when travelling, yes cycle shorts and hoodie have featured.

Rock up to check in, they don't even blink, warm welcome, and request for tickets. My 'gold' status is shown on the tickets so I expected great service once they saw the tickets. I loved how they started with great service right from the start. However they judged my inwardly, they were trained to not let it show.

It follows that anyone showing their judgement about a particular outfit is choosing to do so.

I remember in the 90s if middle aged people wore jeans they were considered a bit 'sad' and trying to be down with the kids

my mum is in her 80’s and jeans don’t feature in her wardrobe. They’re the sort of thing she might wear to do the gardening, but not out the house. “Slacks” are as casual as she’ll go.

in the 80’s/90’s I remember jeans for youngsters and the middle aged were very different. We all wanted Levi’s, mens cut, hipsters in the 90’s, sprayed on in the 80’s. When my mum bought jeans she bought her usual style but in denim, likely from country casuals. “Classic fashion” was seen as better- the likes of top shop and Chelsea girl were looked down on as cheap temporary trends- not suitable for mature grown women who could afford more class.

Yes of course it’s true. Attire and appearance will influence how you are treated

@Firerybadger might be worthwhile reading "The Expectation Effect" for some of the science around this i.e. yes, what we wear does influence how people perceive us.
We are throwing off signals to those around us all of the time which influence how others perceive and therefore treat us.

That doesn't mean that you/I need to wear head-to-toe Jil Sander/ Calvin Klein/ Toast/ Ralph Lauren/ Victoria Beckham or whatever your "tribe" deems to be well-dressed. It means that there are small things that can change how others respond.

There are many threads on here over the years that speak to how women are treated better/differently when they are 2 stone smaller.
There are many threads on here about "going-into-town-in-my-wellies and I dont care" without the insight to recognise that going into town with cow-dung splattered Dunlop wellies, and a worn-out tweed jacket conveys an entirely different message to Hunters and a Barbour.

You say that you could be treated differently (better?) by the world- are you looking for some tips to help you be comfortable and confident? Because that's probably a different conversation to what has evolved here.

I don't think I understand what people mean when they say 'treated a lot differently'. Do you automatically assume that how someone treats you is about you and not them?

If I'm getting a coffee and the person serving me is friendly and chatty, I'll think what a friendly and chatty person. If they're rude and aloof, I'll think the opposite. It's never really occurred to me that the way I'm treated is down to how I look or how I'm dressed. I've always assumed their behaviour is a reflection of who they are.

The Jeremy Clarkson effect-
It's not just cars he can have an effect on either, in 1999 Clarkson was personally named, and blamed, in a clothing industry report for being at fault for a 14% drop in jeans sales. Teenagers had seen him on TV and decided "they did not want to look like their dads" the report by AC Nielsen stated. Soon afterwards Levi's laid off 6,000 staff.