How you dress teaches people how to treat you

[Firerybadger]

Wondering how much truth there is in this sm gem I’ve just seen as I’m of the comfort above everything type. If it’s true maybe I’ll get treated differently by the world

Don't you think she means, because people judge your academic background if you dress in a certain way?

I recently started a job where I have to dress for comfort, as it's quite a physical job. I have noticed that people often assume I am quite minimally educated - eg., they'll spell things out for me slowly, or will assume I can't take written notes, or they'll be quite dubious of my capacity for simple mental arithmetic. I don't find this offensive - it's a realistic response in context. But, I also notice that if I dress a little more smartly (eg., if I've been called into work suddenly and haven't changed), I get quite a different response. I happen to know I have more academic qualifications that people assume, but it doesn't bother me, because why should it? I'm appropriately (comfortably) dressed for work, so who cares?

I'm sorry but now me of that counts for anything. I-one cares about education or job title. Its all about the outward appearance of wealth. If you look rich or others have the perception of you being rich people treat you differently.

Don't you think she means, because people judge your academic background if you dress in a certain way?

yes this is what I meant. Like my mum- wear a suit or dress “nicely” means you’re obviously better educated/wealthier/classier than someone who lives in jeans and a hoody.

i quite often get a complete change in attitude from people who have made a certain judgement about me, then find out what I do. From GP’s who assume I’ve been consulting google for my medical knowledge, to salesmen who suddenly take me a lot more seriously.

Totally disagree. I accept that there’s an element of judgement based on appearance, but this world is really in a state if we are judging others on their outfit alone.

I don't think anyone's saying they're judging on their outfit ALONE – simply that it has an impact.

On a serious note, I have to have a lot of contact with health professionals and social services due to having children with significant issues, and I always make sure I present 'well', so dress on the smarter side, put on make-up and look well-cared for because I think if you really don't care and look scruffy this can lead to a whole set of assumptions that are not necessarily true. Quite sad.

It's not about formal vs casual clothes, it is quite clear what someone's class is however scruffy they are. People who are financially 'comfortable' can always afford to wear better quality brands (whether that is COS or Boden or Superdry) than those who are poorer and people with money can afford a better diet so have better skin and hair. And of course as soon as you open your mouth people can class you. And that does affects how others treat you.

True. Add haircut, posture, self confidence, ability to make eye contact and smile also contribute. Of course, when you open your mouth, the judgement and treatment can change instantly.

I judge people on their appearance when interviewing them. It definitely has an effect.

Not sure about this. I've always dressed well, always been slim or slim ish, always dressed a bit younger than my age and always combined interpretations of trends with colours and cuts that suit me............ and yet I have been bullied by a covert scapegoating narcissist TWICE

Plus, look at Trinny, she ends up with charles Scachi knowing how he treated Nigella Lawson

Totally disagree. I accept that there’s an element of judgement based on appearance, but this world is really in a state if we are judging others on their outfit alone

But we do it unconsciously. And why are there so many shops targeting different markets. Someone who shops at Jigsaw is very different to someone who shops at PLT. And that aside, how you put an outfit together, and whether you have eyebrows or fillers says so much. It’s just glaringly obvious.

This is rather naive.

Go out for the day dressed in ratty Primark leggings, a shiny tracksuit top, tight ponytail with two inches of black roots showing over bleach blonde ends, and a blingy fake LV purse.

Then go out the next day wearing a sharply tailored Armani power suit, and subtle hair and makeup.

Then the next day in a feminine floral dress and thick makeup.

Think you'll be treated the same on all three days?

The people saying "I'm vair posh but get treated the same when I dress scruffy" aren't walking around in Primark.

"no. My self worth is just fine. In fact in my case it’s the opposite, I don’t care if people judge because I dress for comfort, that’s their problem, not mine. I know I’m probably more qualified academically than any of them, and if they want to assume I’m not based on dress not my problem."

I wonder if @Reallyreallyborednow is an academic? As others have mentioned, I think there is a real thing in academia about being above fashion. My lecturers wore any old thing. My DH works at a uni, and the lectures are the scruffiest ones there. My own uni lecturers don't power dress or dress smartly. And I've recently moved from secondary school teaching to working in a large sixth form college, with mini university vibes. At the school, teachers were expected to dress professionally- suits or shirts and ties as a minimum. At the college, where generally the lecturers are more academic (lots of higher degrees), the dress is much more casual. Even the principal comes to work in Jeans. Like many others, I now live in Jeans, DMs and a floaty top. So whilst they're beyond caring about fashion, in a way it is also tribal.

So whilst they're beyond caring about fashion, in a way it is also tribal

Of course it is. And I bet the academic upthread who claims to dress for comfort because she’s just too high-minded to care wouldn’t rock up to the SCR in a shell suit and crop top. But women who dress like that would also say comfort is their priority.

People who claim that clothes aren’t about communication are being disingenuous. Everyone sends messages via their choice of clothes, and everyone infers them from other people, whether the intended message or not. Look at all the women on here who invest huge amounts of energy into getting the school run outfit just right- hours of thought and debate on here, and half the message they’re trying to convey is that they just happened to throw on this old thing, but oh look, it’s the same old thing that everyone else in their peer group approves of. And we all do that, whatever circles we move in, even if the statement is deliberately “I’m not one of you”.

It shouldn't be the case but I think it is. If I'm wearing joggers and a tee I get treated a lot differently out and about than if I'm wearing something smarter.

I wish people would explain more. If I dress very scruffy, how should I expect to be treated?

If someone is hyper-groomed my instincts are to assume they are vain & self-important, so I would try to avoid. Is that what you mean?

Yes its true - like it or not

If you dress scruffy, you are saying l don’t care, or I’m rebellingagainst the accepted societal norms, for whatever reason. I assume that you mean tatty rather than casual, which says a different thing.

Prople can be hyper groomed to fit in with the norm again, or lack confidence or just care a lot. They are saying that they think they have to fit in, or they could be overly obsessed with their appearance. Some of the extremes could be the consequences if body dysmorphia.

There’s nothing new in fashion which is why people have started to modify their bodies with fillers, all over tattoos, plastic surgery etc.

Appearances are a ‘tribal’ thing. Everyone fits into some tribe or other. Even those who think they dont. It’s to make you feel safe with your people and suspicious of those who aren’t your people.

Absolutely agree it's about your 'tribe'

I moved from the area where I was a student, for a job where I wore a suit and heels every day. (Long time ago)

I completely thought that "everyone" was just so much nicer, kinder and much keener to please. As a student I had often not been treated well, as a business person I was given attention and, goodness, yes, respect.

However, people serving in really good shops are trained to evaluating people more closely, looking for example at their shoes, in order to not alienate someone who might otherwise turn into a good customer.

No 'clues' are really reliable, because they can all, with knowledge and effort, be faked and the fact that you know what to fake can be a clue in itself.

Amongst my friends, I too take account of shoes. I can be pretty sure that anyone wearing high heels will not turn out to be a kindred spirit.

Oddly enough, then, the people who turn into real, true friends, are often those whose shoes, and general outlook on life, are not the same as mine.

If they turn out to be friends in spite of such big differences, the friendship will be a good 'un.

People who brag that they're posh but dress scruffy (or talk about professors dressing "scruffy") wouldn't be caught dead in clothes considered "chavvy", though. That's the key difference.

My dad was from an upper class family, his version of casual dress (going "full scruff" in his words) was old but high quality trousers and an ancient cashmere jumper. He didn't own a single pair of jeans and wouldn't dream of wearing tracksuit or jogging bottoms. Tatty ancient cashmere screams "I'm so posh I can dress how I want" and people who dress that way are well-aware of it.

Yup

My dad was from an upper class family, his version of casual dress (going "full scruff" in his words) was old but high quality trousers and an ancient cashmere jumper. He didn't own a single pair of jeans and wouldn't dream of wearing tracksuit or jogging bottoms. Tatty ancient cashmere screams "I'm so posh I can dress how I want" and people who dress that way are well-aware of it

l don’t know how old your dad is/was, but jeans weren’t regular wear until about the 70’s. And really it was the 2000’s when they were considered normal everyday wear. Most older men still worse trousers rather than jeans in the 90’s

I had a fascinating experience when I went to vote this year. I usually wear dresses, quite often a Barbour jacket.

It was incredibly busy at work and I was working from home and it was freezing. I had a thick wool sweater on, but was wearing almost matching tracksuit bottoms. I had never owned a pair before this year but they are super comfy. Hair was scrunched back into a bun, but not a smart one or even one of those somehow deliberately messy but still nice buns.

When I went to vote I asked them how busy it had been . They made some vague comment about "people like me" - i.e. people who don't normally vote or don't vote in large numbers - coming to vote making it all worthwhile. I was utterly baffled because in my head it's obvious I vote. I have run to be a local councillor, and have voted in every election in my life, and campaigned for every general election. But then I realised it was because of how I looked. I looked a way that people assumed meant I didn't vote.

I mainly don't get treated differently depending on how I'm dressed (sports gear vs more casual Vs pretty smart) but that's because all of my clothing choices display who I am whether they're smart or not smart.

So I think it's true whether we want it to be or not.

Naaah. I’ve stepped out in joggers and grays hair, and been told how well I look. I looked shit. I’m intelligent and well-spoken with a great job. I don’t particularly care how strangers perceive me.

OTOH - just had a convo with someone who wears hijab. She’s faced racism. She’s very pretty, a dentist, and drives a Porsche, which throws some people off.