Strange ideas about age, ageism on S&B.

[Pangolin44]

A bit of a mangled thread title, but I'm always slightly agog when it comes to age on this board.

So many 'Can I wear X at Y age?' threads. So many comments about 'age-appropriate' attire. Mutton-dressed-as-lamb always rears its head. Granny shoes, frumpy coats, 'I'm 35 am I too old for mini-skirts?'.

And don't get me started on hair! Bejeysus.

And this is women, talking to other women.

It makes me sad more than anything else, people are obviously posting on this board because they're interested in clothes and style, why close off any area of style because of age? The thought that women think they can't express themselves physically due to an imagined arbitrary cut-off.

I would love to free women from this idea, what's the worst that can happen?

I have lots of bags by the way. I used the Chanel example as the most recognizable!

You sound very fashionable @ProstituteHair and it makes sense that fashionable people recognise each other but most people’s idea of hell is wearing an orange tracksuit and a silver gilet.

Honestly, that’s why it’s probably more valuable for most people on style and beauty to get advice from people who don’t dress like you and instead are a bit more conventional in the way they dress.

It seems like people who are more into “fashion” (rather than just wanting to be understated and stylish) get a bit offended when the rest of us don’t want to wear tutus, miniskirts, and whatever 19 year olds are wearing. This is taken as some sort of low self esteem and shamed aging. But it’s really not. It’s just a lack of interest in fashion and that’s okay too. Women won’t die if they don’t want to buy a £2k Alexander McQueen blazer.

I'm not getting 'a bit offended' @MarieRoseMarie.

I'm not in the least bit offended by the way others dress.

What I do see is an interest in others. I recognise it. I acknowledge it.

I enjoy it.

Even if we dress so differently. I see that joy, that interest, I see, I SEE a woman like me.

We see each other.

I can tell when a woman takes joy in her dress.

I'm not particularly interested in fashion. I have no particular interest in what 19 year olds are wearing - certainly not just because they are 19.

I'm losing track of which thread I mentioned this on (might have been this one)but I complimented 2 women I saw at Scottish Opera last week. One was wearing a black and gold brocade Dior New Look skirt, a short black leather biker jacket and ankle boots. She looked my age and looked fabulous. I don't know if that look is fashionable or not. It doesn't matter.

The other was wearing a dramatic tweed coat. I'm a big fan of dramatic coats. I don't know if it was fashionable either.

And. It's ok not to.

There's no rule that says you have to care.

I honestly don't care if you do or not.

I care. But only for me. And other women that care. I love them.

I love their care.

But. If you just want to look ok, as good as you can, without spending a great deal of time thinking about it, that's ok too.

It's ok to want to look ok.

That was directed at @MarieRoseMarie not you @NatashaDancing.

I know you want to look fabulous @NatashaDancing!

And no doubt do.

@ProstituteHair

But people who want to dress “ok” without spending a huge amount of time on it sometimes want to understand what’s broadly fashionable for their age group as a shortcut to looking “ok”.

They might post on a style and beauty board about the best fashion for their age range, assuming that they might have more in common with someone with their age and experience.

But this seems terribly offensive to women in orange tracksuits and silver gilets and quirky glasses who feel that unless we are expressing our unique personalities through attention attracting garb that we are all being enslaved by patriarchy.

It seems like apparently it’s very feminist to care a lot about fashion and it’s very feminist to not care at all about fashion, but caring a small amount about fashion is Very Bad and Not Feminism at all…

Yeah, it's you that said all of that @MarieRoseMarie. Not me.

I don't agree with a word you said. And my posts would agree. With me.

This entire thread is that.

Women who don’t care about fashion at all = Feminist Heroes

Women who spend endless amounts of time and money on fashion = Feminist Heroes

Women who spent normal amounts of time on fashion = handmaidens

Lots of us don’t need to draw attention to ourselves or overcompensate for feeling invisible or whatever drives this need to be seen stuff. We just want to wear clothes that look nice to us in a mirror. Dassit.

I want to wear clothes appropriate to my age. I want to wear flattering clothes. I want to wear colours that suit my skin. I want my makeup to harmonise with my undertones. Then I want to go do other things with my life, time and energy. I don’t need people on the street to “see me” or admire me. I don’t need other people to be “challenged” by my dressing. I don’t need to “subvert expectations”. Really, who cares? I have a voice, a job and a personality and I do just fine.

I assume most women posting on S&B want the same. So, as many times as these threads are posted, they are a waste of time.

I want to look stylish with a nod to current trends. That's all.

Apologies MarieRoseMarie but I stopped reading your post when I got to 'handmaidens' so I've no idea what you said after that.

There certainly seems to be more friction these days between posters who are mostly looking for a short cut to dressing ok and posters who, regardless of budget, are into clothes for their own sake, and who also enjoy talking about them for their own sake, even when they can't afford to buy them. Over time, I've gravitated towards the second group. Yes women who are seriously into clothes recognise each other in real life, of course we do. (Incidentally my husband is forever getting into conversations with guys who use the same camera lens.) We also talk to each other on this board a lot.

You would think there would be room for both groups on this board and indeed, as I remember, apart from the odd bust up about handbags, they used to rub along pretty well. The friction seemed to start a couple of years ago - maybe a lockdown thing.

I'm neither interested in arguing or making peace. I'm busy. Just making an observation.

@MarieRoseMarie
You certainly speak for me! I’m not getting the sisterhood of expression through fashion. Like most, I want to look ok for me. I like a nod to trends. I’m never going to be a “look at me” person who wants to be noticed as part of a feminist tribe. That’s why I don’t get challenging others or knowing nods!

Surely when people are 'acknowledging' women in £2000 blazers, it's the garment they're noticing, not the woman? If I recognised such a thing I might think that's a lovely item, but other than maybe a passing thought that the woman must be wealthy, it wouldn't make her any more 'visible' as a person, or suggest to me she had some mysterious knowledge of style (with that budget she could have simply walked into a high end store and copied the mannequin) that eluded other less wealthy women.To me visibility is the person themselves not the wrapping paper. If anything statement dressing distracts from the person, as all the focus is on the clothes.
I also don't understand the thinking behind the conflation of what seems to me to be simple consumerism, with feminism.

I also don't understand the thinking behind the conflation of what seems to me to be simple consumerism, with feminism

You dont understand it I think because the only poster who has conflated the 2 2 is MarieRoseMarie

i don't understand why she has done that, or what she is saying. Possibly she has taken my post the wrong way where I mentioned getting a telling off on the feminist board. My point was merely is it is possible to be interested in clothes and women's rights, which was a literally incredible concept to the FWR poster scolding me.

However no one has said that being interested in clothes makes one a feminist or is necessary to be a feminist. ProstituteHair talked about a "sisterhood" . I didn't take that to mean "sisterhood" in any feminist sense but simply in a "special interest" sense.

I really wish I hadn't mentioned the scolding I got on FWR- It seems to have set the conversation off on an odd tangent.

I don't see myself or my fellow "clothes heads" as a "feminist tribe". I picked "clothes head" deliberately as for me my interest in clothes is more like "petrol heads" " interest in cars.

I'm sure there are many "petrol heads" who will never have the money and/or real life occasions to own or use their objects of beauty. On the "demographics of clothes" thread there were several links to sites, which were similar objects of beauty.

For example it makes me happy that the outrageously beautiful gloves manufacturer exists even although I'm never going to have an occasion to wear most of them. Or the intricately beautiful and timeless creations from Renli Su exist even although the largest size they make is a 12.

Not sure why it should be a revelation that clothes heads (good expression) spot each other in real life, just as camera / car / dog enthusiasts do.

I remember how thrilled I was when I discovered this board years ago because I worked in an environment where there was unspoken disapproval of taking clothes too seriously - never mind dressing ostentatiously - and especially if you were deemed old enough to know better.

It took a while for me to realise that the same kind of disapproval, albeit in pockets, exists on here. But no matter, I'm grateful to have as many conversations as I do, and for all the links and pics of clothes I can never afford.

You would think there would be room for both groups on this board
That seems to be the way with everything these days. There's no middle ground any more just a competition to see who can shout the loudest. An if you're not with us you're against us thing. As someone who likes to look at both sides of the coin I find it exhausting.

I think 'clothes heads' is an excellent term.

Possibly my use of the term sisterhood was what caused the conflation with feminism. I was just talking about a group of women united by a common hobby, not that I'm taking on the patriarchy through my love of snazzy shoes (I wear heels sometimes which is enough to get you flayed alive on here), I spent three weeks recently pondering over which cream loafers to buy, this is not the stuff from which revolutions are made!

I think the silent majority genuinely wants what we want. as @RampantIvy says much more succinctly: stylish with a nod to current trends.

All this other stuff is mostly peddled by the insecure. People who believe “following trends” makes you a follower but dress like clowns to try to get people to notice them. Very secure and self confident 🙄

Yep, that's me, dressing like a clown whilst striding around shouting 'Look at me'. Just like all of the other insecure fools who are into clothes.

Well thank you MarieRoseMarie, I did wonder after last post whether I sounded a bit over dramatic about the disapproval, but you couldn't have demonstrated my point better if you'd tried.

I really like Beatrix Ost. Why shouldn't a woman take pleasure in colour and fabric and style, and present herself as she pleases.

https://www.advanced.style/

That photo is from Advanced StyleAdvanced Style

Some Beatrice Ost pics remind me of that Edith Sitwell portrait. I haven't got enough charge on my phone to post it right now but I'll look for it later.

Edith Sitwell - sorry, photo not portrait. 10 or 15 years ago I was going through a phase of not wanting to draw attention to my ageing hands, and this image was one of the things snapped me out of it.