Lucy & Yak - what has happened?

[Marsis]

I’ve followed the brand for a while but not actually purchased, trying to work out what has happened with their instagram and the ‘fan groups’ on FB?

I can’t bring myself to leave it though I’m selling my originals as they really don’t suit me even - though they’re so comfy! - as I discovered the Eastons and they’re awesome on me

The sizing does seem a bit random. I don't have any bottoms or dungarees, but I bought a long sleeved striped top in medium recently, and have had to exchange it for a large. I'm a big 10 / small 12 on my top half, so didn't think I should need a large. I'm looking at some of the Alexa trousers, and going by the comments I think I'd be a small in those. All a bit odd, and annoying to have to return stuff.

It’s not just about the sizes inclusivity, there are also allegations of racism and a toxic culture endorsed by the founders - which sounds completely abhorrent and poses questions about how ethical they actually are in practice. I was considering buying a pair but will find another brand, here’s a thread that sums it up:

www.reddit.com/r/ethicalfashion/comments/ixuw88/aja_barber_and_lucy_yak/

Someone who is well respected in providing paid guidance to companies and focuses on pushing for sustainable and inclusive fashion uploaded a video calling them out for not paying her for advice previously and then claiming to be inclusive when they only go up to a size 22 even though they have been promising larger sizes for the past few years. Since then it exploded over social media. L&Y did 2 videos which didn't really address the issue but made it seem like they were trying to make themselves the victims, they also named the person who uploaded the video and a lot of their fans sent her abuse, and it brought a lot of complaints about other aspects of the company up, like the Facebook groups etc. People called them out for that, and asked for accountability and they released another statement a few days later.

Personally the way the original video creator was treated by people was disgusting, a lot of comments were overtly racist, and her points were all valid- she was not trying to cancel them, or smear them etc.

My personal view is that they already do a broad range of sizes, the comparisons of fatphobia to racism on some of the comments was ridiculous. I have been plus size (size 24), and am now a 12, so I do know that when you are fat you are treated differently- shops don't really cater to you, you have to buy what you can rather than what you want; and people assume you are lazy and disgusting. I don't believe any of that btw, but pointing out I do understand the challenges whilst thinking the comparison is pretty gross, and the drama pretty ridiculous. Size 22 is big, to say that isn't fatphobic, and to ask a brand who claims to be inclusive whether they would consider going bigger is fine (I think people were riled they kept saying we are and never did), but some people's entitlement is a bit over the top. They cannot cater for all bodies, it's impossible, and it's actually not just a case of scaling up for bigger sizes. I do find their yay we pay people a living wage in India a bit white saviour, when that's still very cheap compared to someone's wages here, and still means it's shipped around the world which for an ethical brand is questionable. I wasnt a member of the Facebook groups so no idea.

I followed a brand of sports leggings for a while. I like them, robust, last well, hold me in, small company etc. But I had to unfollow because there was so much hysteria around - well - leggings. Posters seriously overinvested, crying, complaining, accusing others of purchasing all the ‘good stuff’, etc. Very similar to L&Y and a certain bra company as well.

I haven't named the original video poster as I'm sure they want to distance themselves, but if you find out elsewhere, she is amazing at what she does by the look of it, and works hard to try and push for sustainable and ethical fashion, for the benefit of the planet and for people.

This was started by a journalist/style consultant who specialises in ethical and sustainable fashion and the wider industry. I'm not going to name her but I'm sure her name will pop up eventually. She refuses to engage in any debate on Instagram, or requests for advice which she takes to be attempts to procure her industry knowledge for free. No doubt this is often the case, and was apparently so in the L&Y instance. Allegedly she offered some advice on plus sizing a couple of years ago, which she wasn't paid for and now sees a recent venture by L&Y to capitalise on the advice for the good of their business. She also happens to be black. To be honest, I had to unfollow her at this point, because whilst I largely agree with her argument that a lot of instagram questions are often asking for free advice, I genuinely failed to see the racism in a lot of her criticisms of certain posters. It seems just by being white, their white privilege automatically made them wrong, and racist.

What an unbelieveable amount of fuss over a few pairs of dungarees!

I really like the look of brand, just the dark plain colours though. I didn’t know they had such a cultish following.

The comparison to Scandi clothing is very true. There is an obsessiveness about having rare prints and a sense of ownership and being part of a clique at the most extreme end that is just weird way to be about clothes.

Oh the drama! I predict Snag (tights) will be the next brand in trouble like this - I seem to know loads of people who are extremely invested in wearing brightly coloured hosiery and follow this brand slavishly! Not sure what inspires the devotion, but maybe I just need to try a pair...

I do find social media fascinating in this way there is a smallish business that makes children’s leggings and I had to hide their FB group as I found their members’ unhealthily obsession uncomfortable. I looked again recently and it’s still the same.

Blimey - what a nightmare- I'm a 50 something who is interested in buying a pair of their dungarees - I don't want drama just a pair of dungarees that fit and haven't exploited someone in the process. Why so people make everything so complicated- my life is complicated, conflicted and messy enough without worrying about a pair of dungarees I haven't bought yet

Yes some brands do, but I think the brands encourage this (L&Y were giving the admin of the 'unofficial group' vouchers for their clothing so they were involved although didn't moderate directly), because these must haves become collectible and a weird bragging right, even if they never wear them. A weird tactic for an ethical brand that is trying to promote the idea that you should just buy what you need- and the hype is amplified by creating small numbers so you have to log on at x time and try and get some even if you're not fully sure you want them, as they'll be sold out next week when you've made your mind up.

I don't know what the broader issues are, but sizing wise, my non binary DC (5 foot 11 and 12 stone) fits perfectly in a large and loves the gender neutral design.

I'm in a lot of the groups being alluded to, and I get the impression that members who are the most obsessed tend to have difficult lives or some sort of struggle going on. Getting really obsessed with a brand seems to be a bit of a coping mechanism, and i say this sympathetically having struggled at times with parenthood. Most people just dip in and out. It's quite sad when the same people are buying loads on 'drop day' then selling most of it a few weeks later to fund a car repair etc.

I saw a post recently in one of the groups where somebody had dared to ask if anyone else was fed up with the brand re-releasing the same prints. She was jumped on by other group members, and when it was pointed out that this was a bit of a hysterical reaction it was all "it's reasonable to expect if you're in a buying and selling group for the brand, that you'll maintain a supportive tone...Think how sad the brand designers would be if they read this". All really odd.

This is very interesting. I bought a pair of L&Y dungas and they've completely worn through at the crotch. Worn less than 19 times. For that price I'd expect them to last.

Ugh should have said less than 10 times

Just bought my first pair of dungarees last month and saw the social media shit storm on insta. It seems like no one has come out of the whole situation well.

What a load of old nonsense. It’s a fucking dungaree company, not the UN. It doesn’t need to represent every single type of person who might be in the market for some hippyish clothing.

I can see the point about being exploitative of a social media entrepreneur, but the size inclusivity stuff is bollocks. They’re still a fairly small company, and if it made economic sense to stock a range of bigger sizes then I’m sure they would.

Interesting point about the overlap in obsessions wrt Scandi brands. I’m in a frugi group and the amount of people getting themselves into a crease over expensive, brightly coloured children’s wear never ceases to amaze me.

I think the issue is that they have repeatedly said they're inclusive and working on more sizes, but just haven't. I agree absolutely that a clothing company doesn't 'owe' anyone anything, but when there are people who rationalise paying more than usual for dungarees than they normally would because they align with the values, it sucks.

I don't know what the broader issues are, but sizing wise, my non binary DC (5 foot 11 and 12 stone) fits perfectly in a large and loves the gender neutral design.

Sorry if this sounds ignorant, but what makes the design gender neutral amongst the many plain and neutral patterned ones? I usually buy men's as I'm tall and they fit better, but there's nought that really sets them apart other than that. A lot of their newer designs are floral and although I hate attributing it as very much anyone can and should wear what they want; I would say typically 'feminine'.

Thanks for this thread - very useful. I joined the FB they took over a couple of months back just as way to find a pair of limited editions no longer sold via the website. I didn't even own any L&Y clothing at the time. I have since given up on finding the limited editions and bought a pair of eastons via the group just cos they were cheaper. They are too big and I'll need to sell on. Just went on the group to post them and saw all these posts. Think I may sell elsewhere. I don't want to be involved in all that hassle

To be honest I don't get this insistence on going up to massive sizes. Size inclusivity can go too far, tantamount to encouraging being dangerously overweight

@Tarantulala

I think the issue is that they have repeatedly said they're inclusive and working on more sizes, but just haven't. I agree absolutely that a clothing company doesn't 'owe' anyone anything, but when there are people who rationalise paying more than usual for dungarees than they normally would because they align with the values, it sucks.

I don't know what the broader issues are, but sizing wise, my non binary DC (5 foot 11 and 12 stone) fits perfectly in a large and loves the gender neutral design.

Sorry if this sounds ignorant, but what makes the design gender neutral amongst the many plain and neutral patterned ones? I usually buy men's as I'm tall and they fit better, but there's nought that really sets them apart other than that. A lot of their newer designs are floral and although I hate attributing it as very much anyone can and should wear what they want; I would say typically 'feminine'.

I think it's design plus sizing in combination. My DC likes androgenous styles, but doesn't fit into 'womens clothes' and doesn't want standard 'mens clothing'. Lucy and Yak was a recent find and much loved.

I think it's design plus sizing in combination.
My DC likes androgenous styles, but doesn't fit into 'womens clothes' and doesn't want standard 'mens clothing'. Lucy and Yak was a recent find and much loved.

Thank you :) I'm always keen to learn. As a brand they are better than most, I think just positioning as they do they're held to a higher standard.

@breadwidow usually get a good price on depop