Lucy & Yak - what has happened?

[Marsis]

I’ve followed the brand for a while but not actually purchased, trying to work out what has happened with their instagram and the ‘fan groups’ on FB?

@VeggieSausageRoll I assume the children’s leggings brand is Fred & Noah

I love them and have them for my children but some of their supporters are a bit bonkers

But yes lovely leggings

I watched this unfold the other week. Basically some american instagram influencer decided that lucy and yak didnt have a big enough range of sizes, despite her "doing the emotional labour for free" of suggesting they did more plus sizes, repeatedly. Then, irate, she does a hate video "calling them out" for being "fatphobic" and "non inclusive".
Apparently when Lucy got upset, it was "white woman tears" and having your business ripped to shreds online, is nothing compared to how sad it made the influencer feel about brands not having a big enough size range.

The two owners of lucy and yak then did a weird apology video where they seemed genuinely confused and upset by the whole thing.
They then did another apology video where they just looked liked theyd given up. Apologising for everything they did wrong and how much theyd hurt people.

I actually think its bullshit tbh. Lucy and yak are a relatively small independent company, and in the three years theyve been running, theyve gone from doing one size, to doing from about size 8 to 22. It also bothers me a lot the whole "white woman tears" thing, and the fact that a lot of people who said they influencer was being unreasonable, have been accused of talking over a black woman in her area of expertise, so its been really oddly and inappropriately racialised.

[quote MabelMoo23]@VeggieSausageRoll I assume the children’s leggings brand is Fred & Noah

I love them and have them for my children but some of their supporters are a bit bonkers

But yes lovely leggings[/quote]
Thank you, theres so many out there it's good to have a recommendation. I can't work out how I ended up with a skinny kid 😳

[quote MabelMoo23]@VeggieSausageRoll I assume the children’s leggings brand is Fred & Noah

I love them and have them for my children but some of their supporters are a bit bonkers

But yes lovely leggings[/quote]
Yes that’s who I was referring to. Bonkers indeed but also think the owners need to be transparent if people share pictures of celebrity children / babies in the group and the items that have been gifted.

People seem to have their entire lives and personalities revolve around wearing dungarees. I think they need help.

I can’t say I haven’t noticed this too...while I do really love dungarees (but not Lucy & Yak though), some people seem to have taken it a bit too far.

Lucy & Yak do sizes for from size 4 uk to UK 22. That's quite a range.

Insertdeadcatsnamehere What an unbelieveable amount of fuss over a few pairs of dungarees! 🤣 very true

breadwidow To be honest I don't get this insistence on going up to massive sizes. Size inclusivity can go too far, tantamount to encouraging being dangerously overweight completely agree and at the risk of getting totally flamed by the MN massive: L&Y dungas are not hugely flattering on me, size 14 with a mum-tum, SO I’m sure there are much more complimentary ways of dressing larger body shapes. Obviously people can wear whatever they want but why choose something that doesn’t actually flatter the figure?

I first heard of L&Y on here and have been tempted to buy a pair of their dungarees or mini dresses, but haven't got round to it.

If this has all kicked off because they don't do bigger than size 24, that's ludicrous.

My 5ft, fat footed self isn't kicking up shit because Oasis doesn't do petite, or Converse don't do wide-fit.

Why are people so demanding and spoiled? What has it achieved? Those who can fit in their clothes are very unlikely to stop buying them because others can't, when that is how it's always been.

Size inclusivity sounds like it might be an excuse for being extremely overweight and not taking ownership of it.

I am all for shape inclusivity i.e. not assuming that everyone is the standard supermodel shape but surely we shop around until we find the shops that do clothes that suit us or we get the clothes made to measure or altered.

It's left a really bad taste for me, which is sad as I do love their clothes. I'll admit to buying quite a lot of their stuff, but I'm not going into debt buying them obsessively or anything. I feel comfortable and like myself in them, so I'll usually buy them over any other brand. Now I'm just not sure, it's so much needless drama. I used to buy a lot of Scandi for my DS, too, and have moved away from that for the exact same reasons - needless drama, aggro, bitchiness, and I didn't like watching people obsessively buying clothing they didn't need and could obviously ill afford in order to be part of the 'in crowd'. I think there's an interesting study on mental health and marketing within a lot of these groups. Friends and I have commented before, whilst we like the clothes, we don't like how they encourage obsessive spending and relentless pursuit of limited edition/"hard to find" stuff. It's just fabric at the end of the day, and none of those people are ever happy when they find their "hard to find" item (and usually pay through the nose for it) because they just move on to chasing the next "rare" print they don't have and the cycle continues.

I think the influencer who went after them had a valid point but put it across in a very aggressive manner. Their initial apology was hopeless, then the whole saga was jumped on by thousands of people trying to 'out-woke' each other and bullying other people in the process. The whole thing just makes me uncomfortable. Lots of prejudice and really spiteful comments flying around, witch hunts going after individuals on both sides. It's all just really horrid.

I'm part of the FB groups (in a quiet, fringe way) and I dislike the corporate take-over. It feels like they've scapegoated one person (who was divisive, I understand that) and have come away with a ready-made community page that earns them big money. I think there's been a real lack of care, both for their customers and the community on the FB group, and it's been done in a really high-handed way. The voucher thing was shady as fuck, and keeping the original administrators on in any capacity, but not the creator of the group, is arguably wrong.

It doesn't change the fact that I like their clothes, but I no longer believe that they're as sustainable or ethical as they purport to be.

I think the thing that I most dislike about the corporate takeover of the group is that they've also effectively silenced discussion. They put a post up about it and received numerous comments, many of which weren't too favourable. They then closed them on Friday evening, claiming it was because they couldn't moderate them after 7pm and would re-open them on Saturday morning. They've not been reopened since and posts are no longer being accepted. To me, denying people who have chosen to join a community you've subsequently taken over without asking their opinions, then effectively preventing them from having any say in it whatsoever, other than voting with their feet, is really shitty, and not really in line with the caring, community feel they like to put across.

Glad to see I wasn´t the only one confused by the email last week! I only started buying recently and I am very happy with the two pairs I have. But they are just dungarees, I am not investing emotional energy into the brand!

I haven´t looked at the facebook group, but now I kind of want to go and see...

I love the fit of the dungarees but had to leave the group as all the fanatical people who act like their lives are buying stuff were putting me off them .

In regards to the "fandom" and community... I'm not as inclined to judge people who do rely on the groups to some extent, especially as from what I've seen many have openly talked about living with long term health issues (MH and/or physical health) or being carers to children who have disabilities or additional needs. It might be easy to laugh if you have a supportive family or a big group of friends but it's nothing new that the internet does offer a lifeline for many who are not as fortunate. Personally, I live alone and especially during lockdown (but before too) I do get a lot of out of talking to like-minded people online. It doesn't really matter whether that community is built around a clothing brand or a hobby or a favourite band; it's just the vehicle for having something in common in the first place to connect with people.

But that's why I'm so confused about all the bullying allegations, as I really didn't see the groups as being full of bullying at all. The only time I saw conflict was when someone was extremely negative about the brand and the clothes - and then you could rightly ask why are they in a fan FB group if they don't like the brand? I'm much more confused about why people who felt so negatively about L&Y wanted to stay in the groups, I don't judge the "super fans".

I think where I got confused, early on in the saga, was when the link was made between "ethical" and "size inclusive", with the claim that the former has to mean the latter. Plenty of ethical companies do, for example, S M and L sizes. Surely "ethical" can refer to manufacturing, sustainable materials, biodegradable packaging...

@hammeringinmyhead

I think where I got confused, early on in the saga, was when the link was made between "ethical" and "size inclusive", with the claim that the former has to mean the latter. Plenty of ethical companies do, for example, S M and L sizes. Surely "ethical" can refer to manufacturing, sustainable materials, biodegradable packaging...

I have to say, this is what I expected by 'ethical'. Like I said, I find their sizes quite generous so I think they cover a pretty wide range of bodies.

I hate the self-flagellation that people have to do nowadays after being 'called out'. I don't think L&Y ever pretended to cater for every shape and size of person. Maybe this is my size privilege talking, but I think it's a lot better for them to pay their workers in their factories a decent wage than it is for them to offer sizing for every variation of human, given the costs associated with different garment 'patterns'.

I think they cover a very wide range of sizes, certainly more than many other online shops that I have visited. I am a size 20 and I fit L&Y size 20 dungarees fine, and they aren´t even the biggest size. Was the argument really about them not doing large enough sizes? I find that really odd.

Tbh, they're not a small brand any more, they can't really use that line when they are recruiting a fair few staff etc.

The 'apology' was awful, all 'if you make people not buy from us poor Indians will starve' etc.

Another bone of contention seems to be that they play on being 'small' a lot to get freebies from 'collaborators' which then make them money.

I didn’t realise the whole fandom, obsessive buying, “drop day” thing existed with Lucy & Yak. I mean how many pairs of dungarees does one person need?

I have one pair and yeah, I love them and everything but they’re not exactly the kind of item you’d feel the need to buy in every colour.

Quite. I like one of the styles and occasionally they have nice patterned ones but I don't like the printed fabric at all.

They play a lot on the "new mums who have lost their confidence" schtick. I was on the FB group and some of them posted selfies in a different pair every morning for a bit of validation. I understand, to an extent. There are similar groups for Tatty Devine jewellery. Lush used to have an absolutely rabid fan forum full of women competing for factory visits and fighting over batches of "limited edition" reissued shower gel.

I feel I need to head over there and have a look now! I genuinely worry about this social media fandom which seems to exist, on some sites. I recently joined a fb page for a dress company I’d seen, again small business getting bigger and more popular but the owner designer still very prominent. Oh my god the site was full of woman who seems to wait all week for the weekly ‘drop’ of new designs and then spent the following 6 days all arguing and trying to buy off each other. And repeat. It was totally weird. They refer to their dresses as ‘she’ which really freaks me out and it’s all total fandom. I do worry with these sites too that some people are really buying when they can’t afford to to stay in the game sort of thing. Quite strange.

Another bone of contention seems to be that they play on being 'small' a lot to get freebies from 'collaborators' which then make them money

It depends what you're comparing them too, they are not small as in someone making clothes by hand by themselves to sell, but it's not like they're one of the big players either. Collaborations also benefit the person who has offered their work for free in terms of promotion, a fair size platform etc. In honesty sometimes with creative stuff if you do end up offering payment for something, unknowns get beaten out of the way by more established creatives who will actually submit something if there's money involved. As long as there's transparency ie it's clear they won't be monetary payment then it's up to people to decide if they want to spend their time collaborating tbh.

@Boysarebackintown

I feel I need to head over there and have a look now! I genuinely worry about this social media fandom which seems to exist, on some sites. I recently joined a fb page for a dress company I’d seen, again small business getting bigger and more popular but the owner designer still very prominent. Oh my god the site was full of woman who seems to wait all week for the weekly ‘drop’ of new designs and then spent the following 6 days all arguing and trying to buy off each other. And repeat. It was totally weird. They refer to their dresses as ‘she’ which really freaks me out and it’s all total fandom. I do worry with these sites too that some people are really buying when they can’t afford to to stay in the game sort of thing. Quite strange.

I know the group you mean and I agree with your assessment. I thought it was all a bit harmless and twee at first but then a massive political row erupted (among the members/fans) and I decided to leave because I didn’t sign up for that. I get the impression that the designer tried to create this community vibe but, as we have seen with L&Y, this can backfire massively as people almost feel they have some say in how the company should operate.

Also know what your talking about with the ‘she’ dresses. I think I have hid this group too but didn’t know it had got political in there too - also just thought it was a bit twee.