Instagrammers and Influencers

[scotx]

New thread to follow on from this one

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/style_and_beauty/3462129-Can-we-chat-about-fashion-Instagrammers-influencers?msgid=84590932

It’s really disappointing isn’t it. Why should it take HMRC making an example just to get them to follow a perfectly reasonable code of conduct.

I’ve been on a few of these threads and it feels a bit late to be asking this basic question:

But do you have to pay tax on this gifted stuff?

I’m all for transparency to protect the consumer - and hopefully one day children better - but do you have to declare gifts to be taxed?

So if you get £100k in holidays and kitchens, not that hard do you pay a big chunk of tax on that

I googled but got monetary gifts and tax etc

Not a tax expert but would expect gifts to be accounted for under benefits (which are taxable).

Even if they are paying tax it is still far cheaper to pay the tax on a freebie 10k holiday than pay for the holiday itself.

It will be taxable if it has been given in exchange for any kind of service. So if you have been offered something in exchange for an instagram post it would be taxable.

I can't see that something sent to you on the off chance you then include it on your feed would be taxable. Which I can imagine happens to the big influencers. It's taxable if it's a payment in kind for a service.

But surely as soon as you show the gifted item to your thousands of followers you have provided a service to that brand and it is therefore taxable.....

I would imagine any tax adviser would say "it depends".

They wouldn't be taxed as employment benefits, I wouldn't think.

They are more likely to considered barter transactions and would need to be included in the blogger's income/turnover. In addition to the corporation/income tax consequences they would also probably amount to a VAT-able supply (you probably wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of the VAT man either)

I can't see that something sent to you on the off chance you then include it on your feed would be taxable.

Agree with this, but as has been said before, how much actually ends up with a blogger on the "off chance"? Holidays are carefully planned around school terms, clothes miraculously fit, vouchers are received as part of a package for providing 'monthly picks', kitchens are meticulously planned and sofas match their stylish decor. None of these are received on the off chance. The Little Spree blog confirmed that a lot of work goes on behind the scenes a lot of the time before stuff appears on the feeds.

I wonder if the brands are completely out of touch with their audience sometimes. The holidays for example - after seeing it on somebody’s feed I thought - ooh, that looks nice so went of off and had a look. The (#gifted) villa was something like £15-20k for a week for 6 people. We are fairly comfortable as a family but that was v pricey. Surely they can’t have THAT many followers with that level of disposable income that the brands are throwing such pricey gifts at them.

Very late to this today. So Anna Hart thinks there has been a huge over reaction to the rules. I guess we shall see. What does interest me will be the integrity of any of the influencers who look for the loopholes in this quote from last week's Guardian.

The CMA’s chief executive, Andrea Coscelli, said: “Influencers can have a huge impact on what their fans decide to buy. People could, quite rightly, feel misled if what they thought was a recommendation from someone they admired turns out to be a marketing ploy.

“You should be able to tell as soon as you look at a post if there is some form of payment or reward involved, so you can decide whether something is really worth spending your hard-earned money on.”

Anything less and you are a shyster - deliberating disguising your commercial behaviour. Hopefully this will be the message that sticks. If I see any of them flaunting their kitchens, holidays etc....... I will ask them straight up if there is any undisclosed relationship.

I liked the look of the Greek villa one of them (DMBL?) went to but when I went on the website that particular villa unlike all the others didn't have its prices listed. Meaning you had to call up (which I couldn't bothered to do). Is that to cover up the actual size of the gift? Also the perks they get on their free holidays are phenomenal - best suite, trips to private beach, cooking lessons with chef - ordinary plebs would have to fork out even more £££ (on top of the £15k plus) to have a similar experience. It just seems ethically wrong that they get such huge value gifts like holidays/kitchens that are nothing to do with their area of 'expertise' when they are a) loaded already and could afford it and b) so many families are grafting and struggling to make ends meet.

It's guess it's because could DMBL40 afford that holiday? Probably.

Would someone who couldn't afford it deserve to have it? Absolutely.

Would anyone purchase a holiday off the back of the deserving person getting it? Possibly. But more likely no. So if the company has a certain marketing budget they need to spend it where it maximises income.

My earlier post about motherpukka was deleted. Fair enough. My point was I feel the trying on of ill fitting clothes is deliberate and contrived and it's part of her "kooky" shtick to make her seem more relatable.

So the new expensive breast pumps. Seen 2 'influencers' so far this last week talk about how they were sent one.

One had left it in a box for months as wasn't sure. A £250 breast pump others would kill for. Just sitting in a box unused.

The other says yeah I haven't really pumped before as haven't had time / needed to etc. But I've tried it now and it's quite good. #gifted and oh it will probably have a high re sale value. So guess that is where it is heading the.

I miss the days 'influencers' went and bought stuff and then reviewed it as they loved it. The whole sharing great finds with friends vibes.

In that way I have no issues with affiliate links (I have an amazon account for this) as it is literally sharing what you've bought with your own money.

(That's the only way I use it)

I want to know about products people love that they bought and will re purchase with their only money. Only at that bought can you respect the value of something to recommend it.

I think next time they get a gift I'll check out ebay to see if they're selling it on. Could be rather interesting ....

I see DLAM is jumping on the old sustainability bandwagon..... The contradictory messages they send out.... Just boggles my mind

They are not all declaring gifts/ads. I’ve also noticed they are commenting on each other’s posts to draw attention to certain items. Eg I love that planter.
Yes isn’t it fab etc

Or ‘that colour really is great’ etc So posts that are supposedly about something entirely different.

And some of them are merely blatantly ignoring the rules altogether.

Erica advises influencers influences not to be embarrassed of the ADs and thanks her followers for their ongoing support (neatly illustrated with a non credited but tagged image featuring a selection of brands she has recently worked with and a selection of gifted products). Nice one Erica.

Follower comments naturally fall into one of two camps: "Way to go Erica! Love you!" or "Where is the clothes rail from?" (Ikea)

I see quite a few have reverted back to old ways despite proclaiming last week that they would be embracing the new guidelines and ADing where appropriate. Seems they've collectively decided that #gifted will in fact do the job. Also interesting that some who last week posted their new "rules" on stories highlights seem to have mysteriously removed them this week! Just goes to prove many of them are still out of their depth, making it up as they go along, following one piece of advice one week and doing a 180 the next.

ED is eloquent, if not a little defensive. Such a shame none of them can bring themselves to see both sides of the argument, maybe grasp the rationale behind the CMA and accept that they should ALL be honest, about everything - the holidays, the kitchens, the furnishings, the clothes. That's all - just honesty.

From the horses mouth (well LD’s in the comments on her post today);

“There’s no such thing as a freebie or gift it’s always a business transaction”.

So they recognise the fact then? How about clear disclosure of your business transactions then Influencers? (For the record LD does sort of disclose that the sofa, rug, shelving, cushions and light feature are all part of a ‘brand partnership so at least she is disclosing - many many others aren’t).

Wow Lisa Dawson has a really snarky attitude, so off putting.

Isn't lisa Dawson that one who went on a massive rant about how hard she works after some mild criticism on here?

I'm sure it's hard for all of them to finally realise they are purely marketing tools for companies rather than inspirational bloggers they think they are.

Following to read later

Yes, yes to to MLM comparison! That’s so true.

It’s interesting on Insta at the moment. Some people just are ignoring the rules. Some are still fudging and lots are wearing old clothes. For how long, I wonder?

I really don’t trust any if them. Just popping into a shop to try on? No you didn’t- you’ve been given a voucher to spend. Just recommending some £££ earring with an affiliate link? No you’re not- you purchased them with a voucher. No trust in any if them.

I remember watching a programme about the beauty industry, where it was explained that the adverts, counters and packaging are all designed to make you feel bad about yourself. The idea being that you’ll then buy to make you feel better.

I think Kirstie Allsop was saying the same about Instagram yesterday and I totally agree. It’s very unhealthy.

I don’t think the influencers will change until a few are caught and challenged by CMA or HMRC.

In the meantime, some of them are so rude and dismissive of their own audience!

I totally turned off by it all. I do miss the old days where it felt (but may not have been!) more honest. Like a bad (abusive) relationship once the trust has gone and your eyes are opened, there’s no going back.

I think the influencers (sales people) are caught up in the ambiguity of it all, even the relatively honest and open ones like ED and DMBL40, both of whom I enjoy following.

For example, I love clothes. I like thinking about clothes, and looking at lovely clothes. I like wearing nice clothes. It really does give me pleasure. But at the same time I know that always wanting more clothes is unhealthy and that I buy clothes to become the person I think I'm not - but want to be. And that I can be very easily encouraged to keep buying ever more clothes on that basis which is bad for my bank balance and the planet.

I think many influencers really want to believe that their activities are located mainly in the first part of that equation. And in that sense they are providing content that is merely facilitating other women's enjoyment of fashion. The trouble is now that their blogs and relationships with brands have become so heavily monetised many of them have moved over to occupy predominantly the second part of that equation. Yet very few seem prepared to acknowledge the implications of that change, precisely because it is so ambiguous.

I actually think DMBL40 is managing this fairly well. I think ED's 'take pride' message seems to be missing the point. I don't think many people are saying don't advertise and don't make income or be embarrassed about it if you do. They are just saying that influencers should be transparent about ALL their commercial relationships. To some extent this is about the balance of power and knowledge between influencers and their followers - until recently it has fallen in the influencers favour and this is just redressing the balance a little.