Instagrammers and Influencers

[scotx]

New thread to follow on from this one

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/style_and_beauty/3462129-Can-we-chat-about-fashion-Instagrammers-influencers?msgid=84590932

@fancynancyclancy
I totally agree about the levels of adoration, the lower instagrammers want to be like the higher ones so they can get the same freebies etc.
I said this in the summer and totally maintain my viewpoint that the influencer career is a MLM scam!

The ones at the top are making money out of the ones at the bottom. All those AF links are making them money, the lower ones are spending the money to have the same things, that they can then photograph and hope they get noticed!!!

Everyone trying to get into the bubble is full of adoration and positivity because they want to get noticed. It is the same echo chamber as that of any of the MLM companies!

Hi, just joining this thread as the new rules are quite a game-changer aren't they?

Like a poster said above, I only heard about certain brands (like Joanie Clothing) from all the instagrammers that suddenly started wearing them.

As some stated #gift I always assumed that ones not listed as such were purchased & am feeling quite niaive now!

Someone mentioned tax above (apologies, I forget who) does this mean all those exotic holidays & monthly vouchers will now require a 20% payment to the tax man??

If thats the case, i think some influencers may be crippled by tax year 2018-19!

What gets me is that so many influencers are living in a mirror image of each other's homes, wearing a mirror image of each other's clothes. It's a bit of a giveaway to me.

I am amuussed by how poor their reactions and behaviours are.

They bang on about being hard working women and this is their ‘job’. Well, there are now clear rules governing your industry that you must comply with. If you don’t like it stop doing it, but having a strop like a spoilt brat is woeful behaviour.

There are plenty of ‘rules’ that make my working life a challenge such as 4 hour a&e waits, ambulance handover target times, door to needle times for sepsis.

Do I stand in the middle of the emergency department wailing that’s ‘it’s not fair’ or ‘I’m so confused’. No, I just pull up my non gifted, non affiliated link, non ad pants and bloody well get on with it.

Lol at the MLM. That's exactly it. There's a big imbalance of power so no debate can really be had on instagram, and dissenting voices get ignored or piled on by others, often with an agenda.

I should also say that in contrast I have really enjoyed reading the past thread with intelligent, knowledgeable posters and reasoned debate. It may go downhill now I am posting here though!

@checkedcloth non ad pants 😂

@sausagerollers Yes, as far as I’m aware any benefits in kind (so holidays, vouchers, gifts, kitchens) are taxable. I am in no way a tax expert though and would be interested to know from somebody who is.

“Where benefits in kind are taxable, tax is paid on the taxable value of the benefit. HM Revenue and Customs defines this as the cash equivalent value.”

Saying that, we can’t assume they don’t have their tax liabilities sorted. Certainly the ones running themselves as a limited company (I run one myself but absolutely not as an influencer) are subject to clear rules on accounting and tax. The penalties for non compliance are frankly scary.

The smaller ones would probably need to declare all gifts/holidays/camping trips on Self Assessment and pay income tax accordingly.

An example of the MLM at work is the number of fangirls asking MOD where she got standard white picture frames from because they have prints that need framed.
In my experience you either pop to IKEA ( or other home decor stores) or if it is an unusual size then head to your local framer! - Problem solved.

But asking her means that you might get noticed and the validation of recognition from a 'top seller' is probably validating enough for some!

Have a look at smallsustainablesteps. She has some interesting thoughts on the 'hauls' and 'adoration'!

@finks100 absolutely. As MOD said, most of the things are tagged so commenting and asking is just a big old social media wave for attention.

The Instagram algorithm supports and encourages all this. To get your own posts to your followers feed you need to show to the bot that you are ‘engaging’ with likes, comments, follows. So not only are you potentially getting ‘noticed’ in a very crowded space but you also improve your chances of your own posts being seen (if the public validation of likes/followers matters to you, which we have seen from numerous studies that it does to many).

Brands benefit, Influencers benefit but does it have to be at the cost of the followers? Much like a MLM scheme where the people at the bottom get nothing or are down financially and the people at the mid and top get free Mercedes and holidays.

Yep I would second smallsustainablesteps being really worth following.

Wow sustainable steps recent post brought tears to my eyes. Exactly that!

Clts has stories about the guidelines today, not sure I’m on the same page as her...

@tootrousers. Looks as though she is looking at the ASA advice rather than the more stringent CMA regulations. As far as I am aware the CMA has powers to enforce and ASA doesn’t - best practice should probably be to follow the more recent (but not new as ICPEN canes out in 2016) CMA advice.

Undoubtedly we will find many trying to refer us to the ASA advice as they quite simply don’t want to put #AD at the very front of their posts which CMA insists upon. It’s their job, they should know the most recent regs. However using ASA as a defense may not quite cut the mustard with the CMA

AMR put up a picture of her in a new top thanking the company no #AD or #gift. I asked her why not and she deleted the post.
Then a day or 2 later put up several posts aimed at " people who police instagram" calling the CMA guidelines not rules, bonkers and stupid.
Then a new post of a different top from same company of deleted post with #gift.
Ruth is mightily pissed off.
I've since found out she never pays for haircuts or colouring etc. This is not ever #AD. She regularly pushes her hairdresser and recommends people go with videos and photos.
She cares not that in order for the hairdresser to recover costs due to her freebies, he puts his prices up. So essentially anyone who has been on her recommendation, are paying for her.

If she followed CMA rules to the letter every time she shows her hair her post should say #AD I have a long-term on going (free for me) relationship with this hairdresser/salon.
Now as Sali Hughes also bangs on about her hairdresser and tags, recommends and pushes him, I expect it's free for her too and that she is also conning her followers.
This is why no one should ever see influencers as anything but dishonest sales reps.
I've emailed cma. Looking forward to their reply.

If it is a gift ASA rules do not apply (the flow chart clearly shows this), it is covered by the CMA.

CMA - If you have received or been promised any form of payment or other incentive.

The CMA takes the view that ‘Advertisement Feature’ or ‘Advertisement Promotion’, are useful descriptions, but it has seen a range of other wording, (including #Ad, #Advert, and using the ‘Paid Partnership’ tool on Instagram in addition to these hashtags), which convey the appropriate messages simply and effectively.

Haven't see #gift mentioned anywhere by the ASA or the CMA, which I think is why the influencers are quite angry.

It is not lost on me that last year many bloggers/influencers wrote that they would not be using 'gifted' or declaring gifts as they didn't think we needed to know.

Now that they have clearly been told to use Ad/Advert for everything they are back tracking and now suddenly want to use #gift. You couldn't make it up!

So in essence, going forward:

Instagrammers gets "free" haircut (or whatever) but puts #AD or #GIFT at start of post.

Business gets promoted at a relatively low price.

Tax man gets paid 20% so Instagrammer pays £20 for every £100 gift (approx).

Followers know that reason Instagrammer probably likes the haircut/holiday/pair of shoes so much is that they only paid a fifth of the usual price.

Influencers/Instagrammers would be hard-pushed to argue with this surely? They're still getting a good deal (but they may feel hard-done-by having to pay tax) and the followers have a clearer picture of "purchased" bias.

Is it just because they're now having to pay (a small amount) for things they previously got free that they're causing a fuss, or is it that they feel their influence is weakened by the fact people now know it's a marketing ploy?

@sausagerollers Let’s assume they are paying tax on it (whether this is corporation tax or income tax - the % is different).

Yes, consumers/audience/followers should absolutely know this if it is being implicitly or explicitly recommended.

@Peaches100 quite!

@Peaches100 YES! I'm laughing my head off at clts slooooowly explaining the asa guidelines and having them printed out when last time all this came up she was firmly in the 'I only tell you about things I genuinely love and would buy myself' camp. I hope the cma have got a few temps trawling Instagram looking for all this nonsense!!

@finks100 you are right. Unfortunately, I have a couple of family members who have been sucked into a MLM scheme flogging those Aloe Vera products. The mindset required is quite disturbing and has several similarities to the echo chamber of IG. Any comment that isn't 100% supportive is deemed negative. Searching questions are avoided or just ignored. They target vulnerable people by making them feel part of a group and engendering a sense of belonging.

@JessicaPeach @MaryPoppinjay - I am really getting an insight into who these salespeople really are & their motives.

Just mark it an ad (which it clearly is) and move on, for goodness sake!

At this rate CLTS may have caught up with what CMA is by Easter perhaps.

Anelli Bush was showing off a haul from amazon the sheer amount of stuff she has is awful.

@Peaches - quite an eye opener about AMR and her reaction. She has been doing this for a while and I would have thought she'd be more professional about the whole thing. Especially considering she has fallen foul of this a couple of years ago on her youtube channel when she didn't make it clear that a video was sponsored by a brand and she was pulled up for it by the ASA.
I wasn't aware of the free haircuts, I'm guessing very few of the influencers pay for beauty treatments like that as they are always posting themselves at the hairdresser.
The tax implication for them is interested. I wonder how on top of HMRC are with regards this.

I’m really turned off my AMR’s behaviour. I used to love her blog and read it religiously because I thought I was getting her expert insider knowledge on beauty products. Even when some of her “favourite” products didn’t work for me (either did nothing or caused flare up of roseaca) I thought it was just my skin, and kept on reading and trusting her recommendations.

I’ll admit that I haven’t kept up with her since she’s transitioning into a mommy blog, but I still feel really disappointed, misled and stupid. She was just advertising for a client who paid her and sent freebies, not spilling the beans about a brilliant product that models ACTUALLY use.

I thought CLTS sounded a bit petulant which was a real shame as I’ve always liked her.

Inthefrow has started used #ad and #gift for the first time! Other then Paid Partnerships she has never declared anything.