Mutton

[NigellasGuest]

Following recent posts I've noticed on the S&B board, I would really love to know what is mutton dressed as lamb? As in, can anyone actually define it or post a picture of someone who is mutton dressed as lamb? To my mind it doesn't actually exist, and is just another way of saying "badly dressed". People seem to use it as in, I need an outfit but I don't want to look like MDAL but what do they REALLY mean by this? if a dress doesnt look right on you then to my mind it's because it's too short or too long for your proportions or you have the wrong shoes with it, or another reason like that. This mutton thing is just lazy talk I think.

I'm getting on in years - in my 50s - and if I get dressed and don't like what I see, I don't think I look like MDAL. I just think I'm badly dressed.

Ageist concept. But let’s face it, it’s women being criticised for wearing dodgy clothes - which is of course their right - but what I’m not buying that those same outfits would look amazing on a skinny teenager.

I’m old enough to know I wore some abominable outfits as a teen. As I’ve aged, I’m more confident in myself, have learned (mostly) what suits me and have a little more money, so can buy fewer better made items of clothing.

people of all ages can and do make bad clothes decisions. Funny how older women get the vitriol.

A lot of women on here are in denial. In a perfect fluffy world we could all walk around wearing what we want and not have people think that the clothes we are wearing were too young for us. But people have eyes and thoughts and you will be judged. It is human nature. We all judge, even if we don’t say it out loud. That goes for judgement of men as well as women. The phrase MDAL is another way of saying X is trying to look Y, but we know it is really X.

You can wear exactly what you want but what you cannot control are people’s thoughts about it. Most people, even if they have their halos on, know that some clothes do not suit an older demographic (with exceptions). It is not about revulsion at seeing older flesh, or that people should not try to look sexy when older, it is just a fact. Sexiness is not about clothes anyway, it is innate and undefinable.

The big age gap thing, where men in their 50s get 20 something girlfriends is gross. Esp when they have children a similar age. It makes them look like sad desperate losers.

You can wear exactly what you want but what you cannot control are people’s thoughts about it.

Not yet anyway, a full on thought police force can't be far off.

Very few people are the same age as the people they fall in love with, unless they meet at university or school. IME, it isn't easy to meet people in the same age bracket, so an age gap is the norm these days. I know someone in her 50's dating a 35 year old man, quite serious relationship, and no one thinks it is 'gross'. Why is it different if the older partner is a man, makes no difference these days.
I think your thinking on age and how it should govern our behaviour and dress is outdated. You illustrate your viewpoints with extreme examples. In real life, no-one is quite like that

I think it is far uglier to have reached an older age and still be such so judgemental and bitchy, or to think women dress for men than to wear short shorts. Depressing thread.

IME, it isn't easy to meet people in the same age bracket, so an age gap is the norm these days

Actually most couples are very close in age - Stats.

TimeforTea99 just because some people have negative thoughts about middle age women wearing fashionable or sexy clothes does not mean we should modify our behaviour for them. We should fight sexism, not submit to it. Some people are racist and have negative thoughts about POC, doesn't mean POC should hide themselves.

And then of course there is the whole concept of revealing clothes. Does anyone think a man in a pair of shorts is wearing 'revealing' clothes? Or that a pair of tight trousers on a schoolboy means he's clearly up for sexual harassment from an older woman? There's no male equivalent to the concept of Lolita is there?

Women are constantly judged on their appearance from being a 'tomboy' as a girl if they don't wear enough pink or have short hair (short including a bob from what the DDs say), to being considered up for violent sex as a teenager if they wear a short skirt or tight top to being considered unprofessional if they reveal too much cleavage or having 'let themselves go' if they don't wear makeup/nail varnish/high heels/dyed hair. And then we reach middle age and have to walk the tightrope between frumpy and mutton. We should tell these judgy fuckers to piss off and not sit there in our HOC approved 'age appropriate' 'flattering' clothes and simper sweetly and spout the misogyny ourselves.

Actually, I think that what makes BM look Essex Nan is not her clothes so much as her hair and make up. There is too much hair and it is too blonde, and the orange face, black eyeliner and pale lipstick are all unflattering. She looks much better with her hair up (less of a Chupa Chups effect), and would look better still with a different lipstick - maybe a nude. It’s the whole dated package, which is probably what she wore in the 1980s that looks wrong.

Who would you say piss off too? You don’t know who they are. You can’t read other peoples thoughts, let alone stop them.

Of course you can wear what you like. Your choice. It would be the eye of the beholder who decides if you look like you are trying too hard to look young, not comfortable in their skin, trying to be the person they used to be rather than the reality of what their age is now.

I don’t think that all women dress to please men at all. Even if you did when you were younger, it is something you grow out of. Looking mutton is not necessarily about sexy clothes or attracting men. Mutton is a thing. It is just shorthand for somebody who has chosen to wear clothes that look wrong on them for the stage they are in life. Wear the mini skirt, but wear the opaques with it and a flat heel. If you wear it with a stiletto heel, looks muttony if you are middle aged. Nothing to stop you wearing what the hell you like, but you will look chic with the first outfit, and probably mutton in the second.There are very few clothes that fall into mutton territory these days. But the alternative to mutton is not a beige slacks or velcroed shoes, which seems to be the counter argument.

We all judge everything all the time. I don’t believe that every person I mean is a saint, but sometimes on MN people like to portray themselves as angelic, and then their own posts usually creep into personal insults which reveals the reverse. All of the posts on here that say that mutton is a thing have been objective, some of the comments against the very though of the concept of mutton are quite spiteful and judgemental themselves.

We should tell these judgy fuckers to piss off and not sit there in our HOC approved 'age appropriate' 'flattering' clothes and simper sweetly and spout the misogyny ourselves.

Dear MNHQ - please can you pin this to the top of the S&B board. Thanks.

Except that my HOC style consultant told me that I should still wear short skirts in my 90's!

I've read the thread and as an older woman, grandmother, retired etc., I think its great that we can wear what we want. Age isn't defined by numbers nearly as much as it used to be, lots of older women dress attractively with no hint of 'mutton'. When I was a much younger woman someone said 'dress for the body you have, not the one you'd like to have' and I've stuck with that. Ageing doesn't mean beige slacks and granny perms these days. But it should at least mean being aware of changes in your skin and body shape.

Toned and slender at any age (which I'm not!) looks great, and some clothes and styles are ageless and cross generations effortlessly. Some really don't. Too much or too bright makeup, too heavily dyed hair, particularly on those of us who are pale to start with, isnt a good look. Skin tone fades, so subtle tints, highlights or natural white/silver, with a good cut looks far younger and classier than a harsh dye job.

Well put Gran22. You are pragmatic about the passing of time and wear stylish clothes that are appropriate to the age you are now. And there are very few clothes that do not suit most people now, but there are some that are only suitable for a younger demographic.

Nigella, I fon’t know who HOC stylist is, but you can make your own call on what age you can wear a mini. 90 sounds pushing it but if you feel that you look good, wear it. Others might think you were mutton, or rocking it, but point is you can’t stop people judging.

Tbf, if you take the view that age should be no barrier to wearing what you want, then equally neither should being fat or untoned. We either judge people's appearance (in our heads) or we don't. Ideally we should be aiming for a society where the only consideration is how the individual feels in their clothes and maybe it's suitability for the occasion (ie work).

I've no idea if I will still be on this earth at 90 let alone what I will be wearing. I was querying the quote about "HOC approved age-appropriate clothes."

Maybe we do all judge all of the time. Know that this reflects on you, not the judged.
We need to stop judging women/ourselves all the time. Leave it. It's perpetuating misogyny, ageism, patriarchy etc.

I'm 42 today & will be wearing my smart skinny jeans out to lunch with a shoulder revealing Bardot top, happy birthday me.

TieraJ happy birthday! It is also my birthday today (40) and am also in skinny jeans and espadrilles 😊 I have a bardot top for my party, hopefully I will look as stylish as you sound 😊

It is said B.Macron wears a wig but surely no wig would look like that. It doesn’t help that due to her skinny body, she appears to have a lollipop head.

A bit of a problem for over-dieters in Hollywood, also.

If this is a wig - please tell me where I can get an identical one.

So we've hit a hat-trick:
Ageism
misogyny
skinny-shaming
Incredible.

I aim to be like baddiewinkle when I'm older.
www.instagram.com/baddiewinkle/

The wig in the photograph above looks excellent.