This thread is about as French as a Sainsbury's baguette

[AuldAlliance]

But we'll still enjoy it...

Love the moment when you realise that something can be tweaked back to its best.

And thank you for the Madam Figaro/Copenhagen pictures. There were some here in the news pages too, but that was a great selection. Rather smitten with the red/white stiletto heel boots, which I feel would trash up my tasteful neutral look a treat.

Morning all, am way behind on thread... but:

Xing- wish your son all the best for today. Good luck!

Bo, was trying to thank you a few days ago for linking to the shorts and the white top (no - def don't want a cropped T shirt!). Was also thinking that despite a huge wardrobe clear-out a few weeks ago, I still have a lot of stuff that I like but am just not wearing it all so I really don't need t be buying anything new right now!
I also liked your white skirt and top combo (skirt is v cool) and agree your bag colour is nicer that in the Figaro link.

I'm also like the "natural"/ I haven't tried v hard look. Not a big fan of the "it's taken a hairdresser and make-up artist and stylist 6 hours to get me looking like this"!! (But a lot of Greeks do seem to be into this. Going to the hairdresser once or even twice a week is big business here).

Do you think bold lipstick is more popular now? Or is it just in more aware of it because I'm into bright lipstick at the moment?! Find it's a very easy way to look more groomed if I don't play up my eyes (I have big eyes so both is way over the top).

Hope you're feeling better Peregrane

Thanks Sophie! Result is known: DS did better than expected in Maths and Physics, but was disappointed with the English which should have been his best subject, so we will probably ask what happened there.

All in all, no disgrace! We're thrilled for him and with him.

Ah what a shame about the Arket trousers!
Bo I love that white skirt, especially with that jumper. Definitely get it altered to fit you.
The Cos navy silk dress has finally arrived! I love it! Thanks for the tip Bo Needs an iron and does reveal bump so am going to wait until after 12 week scan to wear it to work. Definitely room for expanding bump in there though so I should get some good wear out of it in the next few weeks. My eBay skirt purchases have arrived too. V pleased with them, the Boden one is made out of a lovely Bronte / Moon tweed and looks brand new.
Peregrane please go easy on yourself, labour takes quite the toll on your body but you will return to full strength in time DannyZuko BF changed how my body distributed fat - loads more on the lower abs - but that changed within a few months of stopping.

🤞for XingSon today and anyone else awaiting all important results.

Shame about the trousers Jon, but you've saved me a trip to Arket in the process. I like the pastel and camel mix too, and the Figaro coverage of it. They have a good editing eye, I feel, and unlike most other online platforms of magazines they don't consistently push out fluff piece after fluff piece day after day in the hopes of clicks, which I think makes a difference in their content. I can look into the app once a week and it's just a few articles since the last and they often introduce me to French brands I hadn't heard of. They also mention the fabrics of the items which hardly anyone does. I'm really taken with this wool jumper from the Indian Summer feature, it has, by the looks of it, a good waist fit which is rare in a roll neck. Turns out it's a cashmere knit specialist brand, Notshy, prices vary a bit and I don't think they have this jumper in yet but I like the look of a lot of it, especially the loose cardigan. I'd probably only wear that indoors or on a plane, it would perfect plane wear, but it would get a lot of wear regardless of jetting around.

I can't get on with the chunky trainers either, they feel like such an Instagram 'help what haven't we tried yet to get attention' thing. Each to their own and all that but I doubt I'll ever get into them.

I tend to get restrained this time of year as well, Elle. Something about rushing straight into autumn feels treacherous to the precious few days of lovely weather left, somehow. Strangely I'm fine with browsing winter stuff I am, however, contemplating a silk slip midi skirt, there was even a feature on it in Madame Le Figaro last week. I had a lovely brown one from DKNY when I was a teenager which was authentically 90s. I'm not sure whether I got rid of it or sentimentally held onto it so I'm going to go digging for that first but they are really great in Indian Summer weather and with knee length boots and a mohair jumper once it gets cooler.

I 'modify' all the time quirky, often because I'm too lazy to fix things myself or get them over to the tailor in a timely manner. Elastic bands are surprisingly versatile. I use them to liven up simple cotton t-shirt dresses as well by just grabbing a knot of fabric somewhere to turn it a touch drapey/asymmetric. Worked a treat when I was in weight loss mode and didn't want to buy new things.

Xing, do you mean the one red, one white shoe trend? If so, I like your thinking.

Sophie, I'm not a fan of the competitive grooming either. It makes everything feel too much, just a personal feeling but I do think there's a class element to it as well that probably colours those views. Those from a lower social economic background often see this high level of grooming as a means to elevate themselves out of that status (and I feel this is strengthened by the beauty industry to keep the tills turning over with a high volume base) where women at the opposite end often find their looks being used against them. Similar attitudes can be seen WRT privacy on social media platforms, one sees potential for opportunity the other sees it as a potential threat to their existing privileges.

WRT bright lipsticks, I do think a few months ago there was a sudden surge of it amongst younger women. Probably YouTube or Instagram led, but they all looked quite self conscious wearing it, and often wore an unflattering red for their colouring, unfortunately, which probably accentuated their discomfort. I do think there's a point when bright lipsticks (especially red) makes sense from a where you are in life sense, as it draws attention far more than any other sort of makeup but makes you feel quite put together with little effort at the same time. Young women here don't seem to be wearing it much anymore, but that could be down to the weather. I'll keep a lookout come autumn, though winter tends to be peak bright lip territory.

Xpost with Xing, had started typing earlier this morning and hadn't refreshed since. Congratulations I had to contest both my IGCSE and IB results for the same subject and in both cases the examiners had been sleeping on the job, it was really bizarre.

I'm glad the dress is a good fit and that you love it, Peony!

Xing, congratulations for the results / particularly the maths and physics. Not easy subjects at all. Sorry to hear about the English result. I hope you can get it resolved with a satisfactory conclusion.
The IB results here were also somewhat harshly marked this year apparently. They came out a few weeks ago.

Bo, you do make me laugh as you are always so spot on! How do you do it?! Yes, yes, yes it's definitely a class thing in many cases here. As well as the designer clothes labelled all over and a lot of "sheep" behaviour. There are soooo many people I know here who are just so overly concerned about their appearance and their weight as well as my appearance and my weight.....

As for bright lipstick, I don't do social media so no idea re trends on instagram, etc but I am realising that lipstick is a good way to look more put together (like you say) quickly and easily. Plus I was also told that with my colouring, I should really be wearing some lip colour. Generally can't be bothered as it's a pain to keep re-applying.

That cashmere cardigan is nice. I'm on the look out for new cardigans. Still remember that lovely Jigsaw (or was it Whistles?) one that someone on this thread had (Peony? Elle?).

Btw think I have to eat my words about pilates. On hols and been trying the classes at the fitness centre. Been to pilates twice and the instructor was fantastic. Felt all wobbly (in a good way!) afterwards. No machines, nothing. And good for my knee which I can't bend (obviously had to modify exercises).

By the way

Congratulations to XingSon. We had a similar issue with a Y7 English assessment for dd1, worth investigating.

Make-up is so hard when you start clueless as the first stop is usually a department store - poor light, and staff who are keener to sell anything than risk you leaving to find the right thing. So easy to get the wrong shades.

(contemplating an actual lesson)

Catharine, I've never really found makeup hard but the basic principles came easy to me as I quickly figured out it's just colour, working with light and shade, etc. on a 3D canvas. There's also a huge difference between what works 2D in photography and 3D real life. I do understand it's a lot more challenging if you don't have those innate skills. Technically I'm probably not that great at makeup, I rely on good brushes to make up for that and spend a bit more on products that are more idiot proof as I've never really caught the makeup bug to put the time and effort in.

Laura Mercier are always good IME, I know people like Bobbi Brown counters as well on here but Laura Mercier is a touch more natural, I think. They also do some masterclasses here with the national main makeup artist for the brand, you have to pay but it's redeemable against purchases. Apparently those classes are really great. Lisa Eldridge is a great place to start on YouTube. I do tend to have huge trust issues, specifically regarding to taste, when it comes to hairdressers and makeup artists. Manicures as well.

Gah, Sophie, that sounds tiring with the concern of weight and appearance when you're included in that. People are direct here, but it's more the blunt variety so will tell you you look sick rather than ask if you're getting enough sleep, if they don't like your food you will hear it, even if they're not the ones eating it

Oh Bo, you mentioned you were on an admissions board for a uni. Was it for a particular subject? Or general? I've no idea how these things work. But what sort of things are they looking for? If you don't mind elaborating. Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

And yes soooo tired of people commenting on my weight. There is a lady here who, without fail, tells me I've lost weight every time I see her. Every time. And most of the time (unless I've been ill) I'm exactly the same as I always am I realise it's her own pre-occupation with her own weight and nothing to do with me but still annoying.

I'm probably not quite brave enough to wear odd shoes in Devon, even though I like the look, Bo. (It's very agricultural here.) The boots that caught my eye were white on the outside halves, and red on the inner, on a dainty stiletto heel (which might swing the decision against them) but I would definitely like to try them.

I'll have to look at the slideshow again to see which ones you mean, Xing. I'm guessing Zara or Mango will probably do a version of the fun shoe trend. I like how everyone is picking up different things from that slideshow. I was mostly looking at the bags

Speaking of shoes though, Elle, meant to ask before, did you check Yvonne Kone for jewel toned pumps? She usually has an emerald or petrol in the A/W collection.

Sophie, it's a bit different here, only design and art degrees have a formal submissions process. With the exception of oversubscribed courses like medicine (for which entry is a lottery system) anyone who passed their secondary can attend any course regardless of the grades they achieved, provided they did the right subjects.

There isn't much to it but the creative degrees do look for different things. For example mature students who've lived a little are preferred. Mostly you look for raw talent and malleability but many will try to overachieve and try to impress with flashy skills which aren't that interesting, those can always be taught but creative ability and conceptual thought processes not so much. Computers have definitely diluted the pool a bit as people without much creative ability can make really impressive looking things so there's either one or two full days where they have to sit a sort of exam which is completely devoid of digital. That usually tells us far more than the portfolio but usually the portfolio is sent in first as an initial selection process. Which is a tiring and disturbing process, I've seen some weird things

That's a very interesting approach to selecting students for creative courses. DS, because he's been to four schools since he was 13 (such bad parenting!) has never been anywhere long enough to do art systematically so he is entirely self taught and has only a poor GCSE in the subject (six months teaching for a 2 year course... he missed perspective totally). If honest, I don't see a natural aptitude for drawing, but he has sound visual instincts and decided tastes, and possibly a very commercial eye. I will not be surprised if he ends up in an visual environment, but my gut says it's more likely to be as a producer than front line creative... because he's also talky and diplomatic. (Sorry, boring mum talk! Please overlook)

Checking in .

Interesting what you say about competitive grooming, Grayson Perry did a very interesting documentary on taste and class a few years ago and touched on that very obvious glamorous look showing you had made an effort. I think I learnt a lot of my makeup skills from my mum, originally, who still wears a very sixties eye. She certainly taught me how to apply liquid eyeliner and to apply mascara ambidextrously (very useful). I then went through a teenage punk/goth phase and came out the end wearing a much more subtle version. I think I probably wear more makeup now, since hitting 40s, but it looks like lots less. In fact, a lot of my makeup routine is putting a little on and taking a lot of it off, so it looks quite natural.

SophieLion I find that so rude, that it seems ok to comment on someone being slim but not being fat. I'm not skinny, but a healthy weight and have had larger friends make lots of "alright for you, you're skinny" comments .

Thanks Bo. I had no idea that was the system in NL. Completely different to the UK and Greek systems where the emphasis is on grades and results.

Xing, not boring mum talk at all (but then I'm a mum too ) - just lovely how proud you sound of your DS

To be honest Quirky, I don't think most people mean it to be rude but rather as an extension of their own insecurities with their weight. I'm slim but not extremely skinny (ie I don't look like I have an eating disorder or anything). Part of it is genetic (fast metabolism) but I also work out a lot plus I generally eat healthily. But it's the repetitiveness and some people (women usually I should say ) clearly want to be nasty. It's happened that when I say my weight hasn't changed, they then choose to comment negatively on something else.

People here (I don't think all Greeks but certainly the ones I come across in our circles) can be very obsessed with weight and body. Perhaps understandably given how much time they spend in summer clothing and swimwear.

Generally though, Greeks approach things differently to the English and don't have the same boundaries. They can ask very personally questions and think nothing of it. I've had problems with acne on my chin and jaw in the last few years and the number of people who think it's ok to point out my spots or ask what's wrong. Honestly, as if I don't know I have spots! Plus it was clearly spots and not some contagious rash and not even full on acne

Rant over

I wouldn't mind watching the Grayson Perry documentary though. I wonder if it's on You Tube.

Bo, in the past I've tried searching Dr Dray dermatologist on You Tube and come across a woman who seems quite young and was spending more time talking about what she had for breakfast than anything else! It did say she was a derm though. Is that the right Dr Dray?!

Xing, those are definitely things we look out for in the design field. During the interview process we mostly look for the best bullshit artists. The reality of the profession is not selling what you've got, take it or leave it, but mostly convincing others of realising your design point of view without too much compromise. Though I wouldn't be surprised if your son would be able to roll into the field without formal education by your description of him.

Drawing would definitely fall under skills that we aren't that interested in being overdeveloped. Those with a natural ability in drawing often don't do well in creative education, as they've never been challenged really and are very used to being fawned over for those skills. They often need very set boundaries to work within which is the very thing you're stripped of when you start. You need to be able to freewheel and make things happen in unknown and uncertain environments with no guides on what will be received well. It's very much, things easily learned are easily forgotten, it's when you struggle and are tried that you remember. Art is pain and all that nonsense

Was the Grayson Perry docu not a document series? I think I saw parts of it, I was mostly intrigued by the different sub-cultures' response to him, I think the part I saw was a juxtaposition of very middle class intelligentsia (who were hilariously vacuous) and a working class subset who you'd expect to be very vacuous and were not. It was quite effective because many tended to be so conscious of their response to GP they often let their façade slip in other areas making it much more exposing than I think it would otherwise have been.

Yes, Sophie, grades aren't that important here. Nor are degrees for that matter, or whether you graduated with distinctions, etc. For the oversubscribed courses like medicine you do get pulled up in the line with a certain grade set but otherwise it's of little importance. As far as I'm aware there haven't been major differences WRT results and dropout rates in comparison to countries with selection protocols and I believe it's generally supported that grades achieved at secondary are a poor predictor for academic success.

I'm not that familiar with Greek culture but have come across it in others that being overly concerned with others' looks/weight/health etc. is a way of showing that you care about that person. Which sounds bizarre but it is a thing, I suppose it loosely falls into concern trolling territory. Doesn't make it any less annoying, a lot less passive aggressive though, I suppose.

Ehm, how do I say this politely, if by 'very young' you mean, almost childlike physique, borderline disturbingly thin? Then probably yes, you've got the right one. The vlogging nonsense is of no interest but she does specific topics in separate videos that I think come out on Fridays. I think there's also playlists in her channel that has them all in one place.

For all my talk of not being interested in buying things currently, I did put in an order with Yoox this morning They had an additional 25% off offer on a few items in my wishlist that had also just dropped in price so were going for a song. Ahem. Not intending to keep it all, actually assume most, if not all, of it will be duds but it was worth a gander. I ordered two Jacquemus wool trousers, a green Toteme dress and a navy Isabel Marant Etoile stripey jumper. I'll see if I still can access the pictures of it because I think all of them were last items.

Sophie it's called All in the Best Possible Taste with Grayson Perry, it originally aired on channel 4. I've found one episode on YouTube, but my tablet is not letting me paste the link . It is mostly to do with English class and taste.

bo that sounds like quite a haul! I look forward to seeing your pics.

I'm back from a few days in a very pretty market town rammed with hoity toity charity shops, dress agencies and country clothing stores. Unfortunately I didn't get much me-time but I managed to come away with a fitted blazer in dark blue Donegal tweed (with the weaver's name printed on the label) and some Joseph trousers that need altering but are very kind to my thighs. Grand total was under £50 and if only it had been a few weeks later with all the autumn stuff out I'm sure I'd done even better.

The Protected Species mac was waiting for me and is staying. I kind of begrudge it as I hadn't budgeted for a raincoat but the fact is that I try and walk as much as I can and I can't stand umbrellas. It's smart, a lovely colour - burgundy with a tinge of brown which is flattering on me as well as very current - so I'm sure it will pay for itself pretty quickly.

So the autumn shopping list will need adjusting but I think one thing I want to do is to add a bit more drama to my wardrobe - that drooling over insanely priced Vivienne Westwood was a sign. Not sure yet how I'll do it - maybe odd shoes are the way to go I couldn't open that slide show on my phone but I assume it's just the colours that don't match?

Shame about the trousers Jon. I've never worked out why some pleated ones 'pouch' and some don't - it doesn't even seem to be price related.

Well done to your son Xing. I'm in awe of anyone who can do maths and if he's creative and has good people skills too then I'm sure he's going to do pretty well. I didn't know that about selection for NL unis - are student numbers capped in any way then? I think their fees are much lower than in the UK too? It's always interesting to hear how other places do things differently.

Certain studies are popular so you can only indicate the preferred university you'd like to go to but you may end up elsewhere, Flo. Beyond that it's not capped much beyond studies like medicine which are popular and very expensive, whereas psychology and law are also popular but not capped as they're not expensive studies to run. Definitely cheaper than the UK and everyone used to get a monthly 'allowance' that you wouldn't have to pay back if you graduated, with an easy opportunity to loan more but it's all loans now. It's cheaper to study elsewhere though, Germany is free IIRC and Belgium is about half the price. I'm not sure what their admission process is like though.

Attaching pics from the Yoox order, not sure how my height and the folded over bottoms are going to work for me but for all I know they could be cropped as the clothes on Yoox are photoshopped onto the models. Initially wasn't all that interested in the striped ones until I realised it's two different colours stripes so they'll be less banker, hopefully. Toteme dress in lovely green and will attach IM jumper in next post.

IM jumper and as a bonus for Flo a blow the budget Rick Owens skirt (did not order that one for obvious reasons).

Ignoring the price, the Rick Owens skirt is lovely. The other picks look gorgeous too, bo, beautiful green and if the trouser shapes are good they look promising.

Sounds like you did well, flo, blue tweed jacket and Joseph trousers sound fantastic.

Your purchases all look lovely Bo. Especially the green dress. Would love to know how the rolled up trousers look in real life.

I watched the upper class episode of that documentary series - thanks Quirky. It was really very fascinating. I’ll try to watch the middle class one next. I’m watching them in the wrong order, I know!

Yes of course some of these comments are part of the caring culture here Bo but often people are just being bitchy and trying to (poorly) disguise it as being part of the caring culture.

must be the right Dr Dray, no? (Funnily enough my google search this time came up with many videos where she launched straight into it without details of her food, her washing, her pets etc etc).

Glad you liked it, Sophie, I really liked the working class one, it explained why people liked and valued the things they did, even if they're not my taste. I'm sure it doesn't matter which order you watch them in.

I watched the Sunderland episode last night, which was interesting although I do always feel artists tend to over-romanticise the reality of the working classes and overuse the word 'authentic'. Anyhow, I did like the angle of taste and did make me think that in the UK it is very much tied to class and a different sort of snobbery, where in France there is more of a democratic version of it, everyone is a little bit more pulled together in casual clothes but at the other end of the spectrum you won't see them dressing up in such contrast to their daily wear like the British do, when going out, attending a wedding or christening, etc. in comparison to that the French dress decidedly down.