This thread is about as French as a Sainsbury's baguette

[AuldAlliance]

But we'll still enjoy it...

Well I've managed to read thread 1, and half of thread 2... I'm literally obsessed. Onwards!

I've spent the last 3 years minimising and "capsule-ing" (encapsulating?!) my wardrobe, but I struggle with impulse buying, and therefore justifying big spends. My plan for the next 3 years is to focus on quality and window shop HARD before I buy.

The biggest issue I have is not having access to decent shops, and I've been a very reluctant convert to online shopping because returning has always been a huge hassle and I like to try before I buy. Consequently 90% of my wardrobe is from H&M.

I like my style but I need to "adult" my collections and start replacing fast fashion items with more quality pieces, and this thread has shown me so many amazing brands that I can now search for!

Thank you!!!!

I am genuinely curious though: Bo and others- how does one come upon this much style knowledge? Is it passed on from a friend or family member? Years of reading vogue? Just pure unadulterated talent for looking good? Or are you all just reaaallly good at Googling? :D

P.s. I never wear a bra anymore- tight stretchy vests in the winter, and short little bralets from whispers Primark in the summer. Never looked back and as soon as I wear a bra I feel immediately uncomfortable!

Right, I'm off to thread 3 - the plus side here is that I can buy all your winter suggestions in the sales/on Ebay for peanuts right now during this heatwave! Winner!

I'll try to join in on this thread properly now I've got to grips with it a bit more. Sorry to derail once more!

Formatting fail, that should have been whispers : Primark ...Still learning

Welcome, DannyZuko. Well, obviously mn style & beauty is the fount of all knowledge . I think, personally, some things I learnt for myself e.g. I look horrible in yellow, a lot of things I've read. Some stuff from my mum "everyone needs an opera coat" . Some from an image consultant when I lost my mojo post pg. who really just redirected me to what I like. I'm interested in style and fashion, so feel it's an ongoing evolving thing, really.

bani and bo I was going to add that the bra intervention bras I bought felt very much like corsets, very tight and left marks from the "whalebone" plastic in the band. They definitely put me at a D, I've never ever been a D before or since, more a B or C. I even went back as it was so tight and they told me it fitted fine as the front lay flat . That makes complete sense about profitting from that system, and I was given a loyalty card to buy ten and then get one free. I am veering towards looser and softer bras, I recently got one from John Lewis and the fitter asked me if I liked a tighter or looser fit. Interestingly, I ended up with a similar non-padded triumph bra to one I've had before, that is much more comfortable and a more natural fit.

botemp Thank you for the tip about the Uniqlo bras! I’ll definitely try them as soon as it makes sense (yes I am breastfeeding).

I have not had a bra intervention, but my endowment really is very meagre, under normal conditions.

Elle I’d been measured a 34A and I wear a 30B in my staple bra. I can fit into size 8 tops as well (no way could I wear a size 8 in trousers!) but nowadays I prefer size 10 on top as well. My main issue in fit is less my norks and more having enough space around the armpits (and of course length).

bani I had to google bralettes! I am not keen on showing underwear, but the ones that are like t-shirt bras look comfy and adequate for my needs.

I have opened and tried on some of my recent shopping! First, a top by Closed. I imagine it would look much nicer tucked into high waisted jeans in the front, but that is not going to happen for a while.

Sézane tops. I think the Dolores (tobacco colour) needs to go back, much as I adored it on the model. The awkward pose is to cover the absence of scaffolding 😉 The wine coloured top is a size 38 - I also tried on the 36 but I preferred this fit. I am pretty pleased with the strappy top and will need trousers to go with it.

Nevermind what the source of my questionable knowledge is, I want to know what magic dust Peregrane is inhaling to look this good so shortly after giving birth

Really like the strappy top on you. Since you're a pear the little frilly details on the shoulders should help balance you out a bit and draw the eye upwards. Love the look of the pattern too.

Yes, I agree - Peregrane, please sprinkle some this way?

I assume you had your baby somewhere between Thread 2.5 and this one! Congratulations! My baby was born approximately two pages into thread 1...

I really love the white top and think it would be stunning with jeans, as you suggested.

I think you're going to want to pay extra for next day delivery, Danny, if I'm remembering correctly the petit(e) Peregrane isn't even two weeks old yet...

Well dang! Two weeks!!! Huge congrats Peregrane are flowers a happy thing on here? I'm making them a happy thing in this instance.
How are you finding clothing and things postpartum? I spent so much money shopping for my new, post baby size, and now I'm sort of all over the place - I'm the same weight as I was before, but a totally different shape so a lot of my old clothes still don't fit! Not to mention breastfeeding requiring buttons or strappy tops (not ideal in winter).

I've got a couple of questions about other stuff that's a bit of a derail so I'll wait a bit to ask those, but in the meantime, I'd never even heard of bra intervention but it sounds like something I would have ordinarily been curious about, so thanks for the forewarning on here!

Bo, I've been meaning to ask how your beautiful IM scarf treated you over the winter? That probably seems like old news but remember I only read that thread like yesterday

Danny, I actually ended up returning it after addictively stroking it in the shipping box for about a month I was getting too paranoid about keeping it free of lipstick or otherwise ruining it somehow which meant I never dared wear it out. Also, the neutral colour wasn't as versatile as anticipated, it only really worked well with the Haider Ackermann blazer. I can't recall exactly what the price was, but around 300 I think, and at that price I needed to be able to wear it carelessly and with more versatility to truly incorporate it in my wardrobe, so with a heavy heart, back it went.

I'm not an expert on MN emoji hidden meanings but I believe originally the were used to express thanks, then they started being used to express sympathy as well as congratulations. So basically, where flowers in RL would be called for. There might be some MNetters of the first hour still around who insist it should only be used with the original meaning

Can't speak to the bra intervention method but my Bravissimo fitting produced my best-fitting bras ever, the fitter tried lots of different styles and sizes and we discussed together which was most comfortable. I like the shape a good bra gives me under my clothes. I definitely do need that wider band, too. But I was already well beyond a D cup so I wasn't being pushed into a significantly more expensive bra category.

CatherineMaitland Bravissimo use the bra intervention method, I think if you are fuller of boobs it's probably great, as it leans towards that shape, but not so great for me, as I'm not that shape or size. So it's a tighter band and a bigger cup. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that french fitting errs towards looser bands with smaller cups, I can also see that cm would give you a more accurate measurement than inches. I'm sure I should be a 33, but bra sizes come in 32 or 34.

Catching up!
I absolutely LOVE The Fold coat Peregrane Also like the rust Sezane top on you.
Nice Uniqlo picks Elle, especially the red dress.
Would quite like to get into bralettes. My thinking is that they would give me a bit of a hoik up without being as binding as a bra. I believe you can BF in them relatively easily which would mean I’d get some wear out of them next year too. Any recommendations on where to buy them?
The weather has finally broken. Wearing my favourite jeans and a structured white top from Jigsaw which I already owned but usually tuck into a pencil skirt. Will add cognac Bobbies heels at work. Pleased with outfit today but my face looks like a train wreck! ToddlerPeony has been waking between 4.30-5.30am for the past fortnight and refusing to go back to sleep. Really struggling with the combo of early starts and first trimester fatigue. Skin has gone to shit - not enough sleep and hormones giving me extra “glow” 😫 Please can I have some Peregrane beauty dust?! I definitely did not look like that after giving birth first time round.
Re bras and bra interventions. I always thought I was a 34 band, veering between B and C cup. Then I was intervened (on my mumsnet baby Facebook group 😂) as a 30DD. I find a 30 band incredibly tight so wear a 32D instead and it does give me better shape and support than the wider band and smaller cup. I do feel that I need to wear a bra these days - I always did for work pre-baby but didn’t always casually. Now my breasts are a bit bigger but a totally different shape - they used to be very perky but post BF are much droopier with no volume at the top. I never thought I’d have surgery for cosmetic reasons but my sister is a breast surgeon and has offered to lift them for me when I’m done having babies. I am a bit tempted!

I thought Bravissimo measured by eye and just made you try on loads but tends to fall in line more with the bra intervention method than others as they carry many of those brands.

Yes, French and Italian manufacturers tend to prefer a looser fit in the elastic and the focus is on filling the cup. I often find they have more hooks as well. What the bra intervention essentially does is through tensile give the scaffolding to allow you to 'scoop' armpit- and backfat into the more generous cups which I assume means you no longer have a bra that digs into said fat and sit better. It's interesting, I was reading the breast reduction thread last night which made me realise that every woman I knew growing up with big breasts had a reduction (a lot easier to get access to on insurance here) but there was also a couple of 'right size' talk on there, one even provided a link to an article on the BBC website where a clinical psychologist mentioned it would reduce the amount of surgeries if fitted in a clinical setting but her opinion was that bra sizes are overestimated by at least three cups (so not in line with the intervention method at all). If you think about it, I suppose it makes sense, if you're scooping everything forward you're making your spine compensate more for the displacement of weight, that's my theory anyhow, and I don't know if that amount of extra really makes a difference. The article didn't explain what her opinion was and it puzzled me a bit what her role was as a psychologist within that setting. I'm also curious exactly what measurements they use then, I assume
one that will be less invested in a flattering fit and sounds much closer to the plus 4 inches method if cups are to be smaller.

I didn’t do the mumsnet-sanctioned bra intervention, just rather got measured properly. I have to say that I like the shape it gives me and it does balance out my proportions whereas the bigger band with a smaller cup was completely flattening me. I definitely wouldn’t wear the band so tight that it was at risk of breaking; that sounds like it would be extremely uncomfortable. As for replacing every 6 months?! I’d be complaining if a bra only lasted 6 months. I do tend to wash by on a delicate cycle though. Thankfully I’m a long way off speciality sizing (and price) territory. Figleaves are a god send in that respect. Speaking on bras, I ordered a bralette from Topshop with no hooks on the back. Thankfully they’re having a moment so I’ll be able to see if they work with a low-backed top. Banivani I enjoyed reading your thoughts on bras.

Peregrane You looks great. I really like the wine top and the frilly vest top on you.

botemp All white suits you and I like the ankle boots. Gotta love a hair compliment for the feel-good factor.

quirkychick Hope the holiday is well, swimming with seals definitely does sound enchanting.

My bangles arrived and got an outing today, picture attached. I did take a chance on a Sezane dress that came back into stock in my size. It’s very much a dress for holidays though so I’ll see how I feel about it when it arrives.

Love the bangles on you, Elle, are they comfy to wear or is it a getting used to them being there thing currently?

Posted previously before seeing peony's post, but since you're related to an expert in the breast field, I'd be curious to know her professional opinion on bra support and measurement methods. Not that I'm on some sort of crusade or something...

Also, peony, I keep meaning to mention and then forget a French maternity brand that had a pop up shop when I was in Paris. Was a lot more affordable than I expected, lots of items in several colour ways, that kind of thing. A touch casual but some things could work for office wear. They have a UK website so perhaps I'm not revealing anything new though:

www.enviedefraise.co.uk

I tried the ankle boots on last night again, Elle, but they're weirdly uncomfortable against the shin bone, I don't quite know what's to blame for that. The weather broke here yesterday and I finally managed a sleep beyond 5AM today (no toddler or first trimester woes for me though, so sympathies peony) and I was already fitting winter coats yesterday need to do the whole witness protection thing to the pics and will post later.

The two finer ones are extremely comfortable. I wore them at the weekend when flying with 2 kids and completely forgot I had them on. In fairness after a Ryanair flight solo with two small ones I was also close to forgetting my own name, so I'm not sure that's the high praise it was meant to be. The enamel ones are heavier and I'm more conscious of wearing them and them moving about my arm. Hopefully I'll get used to them too. Thanks for the recommendation. They all look very lovely stacked on my desk right now because the clattering when typing is unbearable!

I am in France as I type. Took the DCs to a theme park yesterday and was agog at how stylish most people looked at a bloody theme park. Little effort chic, if you will.

I saw the most beautiful middle aged man I've ever seen in my life - all grey hair, sun glasses, jeans and a tee, bit oh my lord he was stunning. The women made me feel like I need a serious overhaul (which I do).

I also noticed that the 14/15 year old girls look gorgeous without having their eyebrows drawn on and a face full of make up. Beautiful.

Wilbur you're making me drool 😂 Gratuitous pic of another sexy European man

Just popping on to say hi to you all Very much enjoyed looking at all the photos and you all look great (especially Peregrane so soon after the birth).

The bra intervention didn't really work for me either. Gave me a D cup which was massive for me although the band size was more or less right (30-32). Ended up finding my best size through trial and error.

Yes I've been about a bit Bo and DCs in tow just about sums it up. Really struggling with them at the moment as I'm with them 24/7 (although in fairness they do sleep at night so that's a few hours off ). Leaving on Saturday so packing again. Given up on small capsule wardrobe and nice coordinated packing and just shoving in anything I think I might want to wear
DH did just surprise me with a lovely new bag and the only place so far that I got to take it was to a PAP test!!! That's the excitement here!!!!!

Elle and peony you both look very chic! We're not actually away for the summer holidays, but been going up to the coast on very hot days, as it's been much nicer than sweltering in the city.

WilburIsSomePig as discussed before that effortless chic, is actually not effortless at all! The effort goes into choosing flattering, versatile pieces that look like you've just thrown them on. Also, in having lovely skin, hair etc. rather than very styled or obvious makeup. I saw a very stylish man at an event recently, it was raining and he had salt and pepper hair, a Belstaff style jacket, black jeans and short, black hunter boots.

You lot are all in my book between the up before dawn toddlers, navigating Ryanair with DC on your own , theme parks (let it not be underestimated what a sacrifice visiting those are), and having DC attached to you like a shadow at all hours in these insane temps this year.

Effortless in my book basically means much as quirky points out, it's more preemptive than retro-active. So no bingeing and then dieting but just a steady modest diet at all time, skincare over makeup, etc. etc. I think there's also an overlap with the Kondo method a bit that at the same time they're specific about what they do have in their wardrobe (and life), they're also selective about what not to have. It's a bit restrictive in a way and there is probably a danger you can get carried away with that restriction of self.

I was really impressed with the Parisian men and their work wardrobe in the sweltering heat. There was one (probably in ads or something semi-creative like that) who had red cotton trousers with all red trainers (probably Common Projects) and a crisp oxford blue shirt in a minimal contemporary cut. He was probably over 60 but you'd never guess that by the way he dressed and carried himself at first glance, he was a fab sight. The men definitely had an edge over the women in the hot weather when I was there.

Lol! My secret is being all bony on top, and putting any excess weight on the bottom. The flab, including my belly, is hidden under that maternity skirt. But thank you kindly!

peony I’d put the t-shirt/jeans/bag combo you are wearing in the category of effortless chic! Elle that is a seriously stylish outfit.

Danny to be perfectly frank, I have not even left the house yet, and spent the whole time in this infernal heat in my undies. This thread is feeding my illusion that one day soon I will be something other than a sleep deprived, unkempt wreck

Plus all the shopping I’ve done has been for my pre-pregnancy body! This is DC2 but last time I also lived in two nursing tops from Seraphine and in nursing vests under my regular tops. For trousers I guess I wore my loosest regular pair once I could fit into anything but maternity wear. I plan to do pretty much the same now... (sans the Seraphine tops, they were made of some shite material and fell to pieces). Sorry I wasn’t much help there!

How can people look so good so soon after popping out sprogs? V. jealous.

Re: nursing bras - if I was going to nurse a baby now I'd only get those soft bra tops that are easy to pull up and down and stretch with your shape. Much better than ill-fitting proper nursing bras that you hook the cup off.

I have to clarify that I'm a big advocate of the bra intervention system or similar if you actually want the bra to lift your breasts up and separate them. And I think a lot of women who have large busts or are a bit fat want this, because if you wear the types of bras we wore in my youth you just get a big roll of flesh on your chest which can make you look even bigger, or more "matronly" (because pert and separated breasts are a sign of youth to us). I have a very large-breasted friend who I once was with when she was trying on bras in a place where the size range was very limited. Basically she was getting bras that were fitting around her body like some sort of bandage or tube top - the center gore wasn't flush against her body, rather a good inch out, the band rode up a lot in the back. But to her this was as good as it got, this was "a good fit". Fine, if all you expect is to be able to fasten the garment at the back and a reasonable amount of mammary inside the cups. But then why wear one? This is my query. She obv felt it was expected, that's all.

If I wear a bra I'm quite likely to want to exaggerate a certain shape, and The Lift is so important when you want to feel like your boobs are separated from your stomach... So that's why I think the "good bra-fitting method" gains traction. It actually gives a difference in shape and feel. Why would I wear a bra to squash flesh into my armpits, that's not comfortable either.

I agree that six months wear is a ludicrous attempt to sell us more bras. Mind you, at the premium prices you can't afford more than two anyway so they might easily wear out in six months with daily wear!

Bo - no, I don't think people care that much in Sweden, at least not in the area I work in (not corporate). But I do think people notice ... what that means for how you're perceived and treated I'm not sure. It clearly matters loads in the US, and in the UK too I think! I know people don't care as much in many places in Europe. Possibly in France there is less of an idea that wearing no bras makes your breasts sag (since they think that's the fault of breastfeeding instead (grrrr)).

Elle I can't see the fecking bangles properly the picture is so small :( but you do look very chic on the whole. :)

Bo, I'm having a moment of silence for the scarf. But I agree, I don't think it's worth having something if you're not able to get the full joy of wearing it! That's kind of how I feel about wearing any item over £100 to be honest... ultimate fear! How do people not ruin their clothes?

Peregrane, I'm sure this happened last time for you, but it's amazing how one day you'll suddenly be there! The first 3 months of my baby's life were a bit of a blur, but one day it just wasn't a blur any more. Magic!

Re: clothes, my hips and ribcage are still wider by at least an inch each, 9 months postpartum, which means I am now probably in hourglass territory as opposed to the rectangle I was before. It's also pushed me up to a size 10 in non-stretchy things. The worst part of that is that all my size 8 stuff still technically fits - so it's still there tempting me - but when I put something on it's just ever so slightly too small, which makes me look way bigger than I am. Sob.

I wanted to ask about buying "non-fast-fashion". Those of you that do spend a lot on stuff from higher end brands: what's your main motivation for doing so?

Do higher-end things genuinely last longer? Is it a style and cut thing? Is it for ethical reasons? Simply just the joy of owning a valuable item? I just have never been able to convince myself that it's genuinely an investment to spend, say, £400 on a coat or pair of shoes, or £80 on a cotton t-shirt. I really want to avoid fast fashion though, so please help me make the change!!