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🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...

991 replies

botemp · 20/02/2018 11:00

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6 Thread 7 Thread 8 Thread 9 Thread 10
Thread 11

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

NEWish since previous threads:

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

FEBRUARY 2018: The month of February sucks. Period. We’re sick of winter and the state of our finances, some are embracing frugality (in different shapes and forms) but water bills and car maintenance are ruining our buzz. Hair appointments need to be made despite the palpitations of fear that the mere thought incites. Oh, and skin texture. As you were...

OP posts:
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botemp · 09/03/2018 08:33

Enid, I think it's down to being so straight. I hate when my hair is styled like that too, it feels like alien hair. I think when it's bluntly cut it staggers a bit in a pony tail just by the difference in length when it's raised and held together at different levels. It's less noticeable with natural texture but you see it quite a lot on sleek Asian hair.

Pupsie, sounds like a sensible decision to preserve yourself. I'd make the same call without hesitation.

Welcome, opiniated. Ehm, how will I put this delicately, can you still return the Skin Design Vitamin C serum because... it's a massive rip off. Thank goodness you didn't buy the retinol too Shock ignore Rodial it's shite. So is the Pixi, no good for sensitive skin. What type of cleanser are you looking for, first/second or a single one?

Rosie, Aesop is what I classify as a premium pamper brand, it has some ingredients of interest but it's not formulated around it like with an actives brand. So the serum linked (half the price and twice the amount of the Skin Design one ingredients wise pretty similar, yet still overpriced) uses SAP a vitamin C derivative with very little evidence behind it, as a derivative it it supposed to function like L-AA but there's no guarantees. It is very good as an antibacterial though, performing like benzyl peroxide so it's of interest as that but not as a brightening/antioxidant powerhouse.

Sorry, Sophie, there were so many things to respond to I forgot to answer. You should probably be okay to introduce but it's with a risk, I'd wait a week or a few say at least, maybe?

Foaming cleansers are liked by people with very resilient skin who wash their face in the shower Envy

OP posts:
opinionatedfreak · 09/03/2018 09:34

Thanks botemp
I know the SDL serum is a rip off but it is the first one I've used and I'm not reacting - will buy something cheaper next time!

Cleanser-wise I was looking for something to use second - assuming eyemake up remover/micellar water counts as 1st.....(I'm not totally clear if it does - there is so much new terminology to get my head round).

Tantpoke · 09/03/2018 09:37

Blush I used to use foaming cleansers a lot pre CH because I have resilient skin to a point (yet still sensitive Confused ) and always hated using a traditional milky cleanser (they still make my face feel covered in a film and uncleansed)

It's been a skincare revelation for me using a balm cleanser to remove makeup and a decent non foaming face wash as a second or am cleanse.

Micellar water is also a good occaisional but not everyday choice for my skin.

enid hopefully its just all the product and straightening or your hair is now that little bit shorter creating the spiky ponytail.

pupsie Flowers

I did however try out my toleraine dermo cleanser in the shower again last night and the film did finally wash off by the time I stepped out but it took a long time. There was still a film after using a flannel. That said my skin feels supple this morning and no signs of any untoward reaction.

Lonesurvivor · 09/03/2018 10:33

Enid how's the hair today? My hairdresser does the same with a straight blowdry, I love how sleek it turns out but hate the flatness on top and how sparse it looks in a blow dry. I now ask for volume at the roots which she does and uses some powder after to hold it and a little back combing if it's a curly blowdry.

I've got a Babyliss Big hair which gives a lovely bouncy style with volume and Steam Pod for straightening which doesn't give a flat look.

Lonesurvivor · 09/03/2018 10:40

I used the No7 vitamin C for the first time today. You've to mix the powder into liquid then it's active for one month.
I'm doubting my purchase now more than ever. It didn't tingle at all like every other Vitamin C I've used, and after ten minutes when I applied my serum my face felt wet from it.

I'm really pleased with my skin tone now it's very even. Above my top lip was noticeably paler than the rest of my face from waxing it regularly enough in my 20s/early30s. It doesn't stand out now at all which is great as I was conscious of it.

Pupsiecola · 09/03/2018 10:45

So if I were to have a fuck it moment and order the Verso (assuming that hasn't already happened 🤐) would I introduce it slowly?

Secondly how do people use mineral water? I sprayed some into cotton wool last night and blotted it over my face.

Pupsiecola · 09/03/2018 10:50

Opinionated general train of thought here is you don't need to spend lots on cleansers (unless you want to) or moisturisers. The actives/serum stage is where we tend to spend more. That's how this thread started 18 months ago (!). I had a lightbulb moment of thinking "hang on, I have no clue what actual ingredients are the game changers". Until then I had exclusively used Clarins for 20 years. Now I don't think I have two products from the same range. In fact I try to avoid it, considering one brand usually has only one or two hero products (disclaimer: second Drunk Elephant product currently in baggage carousel at LHR Grin). Moisturisng for me is all about the comfort factor. I get my actives in elsewhere.

botemp · 09/03/2018 12:07

opinionated, it depends on what type of make up and spf you are wearing, if it's longwear/waterproof a micellar usually doesn't suffice. For some, it's also preference. Gentle second cleansers oft recommended on here are the La Roche Posay Toleriane Hydrating Cleanser (AFAIK still only available to order from France or Belgium), La Roche Posay Toleriane Dermo cleanser (but can leave a filmy feeling if you're in a soft water area or have very oily skin), Avene Extremely Gentle Cleanser. The Cerave hydrating cleanser newly released in Boots is also an option but not many on here have used it, I think only one person is trying it now.

Lone, can you take a pic of the No. 7 INCI for me, can't find it. I'm not surprised it feels ineffective though it's only 5% which is pretty much negligible as you need at least 10% for L-AA to do its thing. It's kind of a stupid product IMO though, you have to toss it out after two weeks so it feels rather overpriced at such a low concentration. I'd keep it in the fridge just in case but it's also in a clear bottle so it's going to oxidise and lose further efficacy every day regardless.

Pupsie, I use two tiny dots about the size of beluga lentils (sorry for sounding like a food snob) but that comes from years of practice exercising the right amount of pressure on the pump, but be easy on the pump pressure at first as you don't need much. Especially in the beginning use sparingly as it does tingle, to some that feels like burning but it goes away quick enough. I dot it out and then tap it in. I'd say start using it 2-3x a week. I use it every other day but it is meant to be used 2x daily but the then my value for money calculations collapse somewhat. I do hope you got it from SkinCity though, the difference in price is ridiculous (80GBP vs. 60EUR IIRC, on offer I paid 48EUR last time, I think).

Thermal water I use as in the video linked previously, after cleansing spray liberally, then blot it off (with soft dry towel or tissues). If I'm doing a second cleanse then I don't blot it off but apply the second cleanser to the damp thermal water skin, then rinse, then do another thermal water rinse, then blot off.

Slight caveat to general train of thought aka my doctrine as explained by Pupsie, spend little on cleansers and moisturisers, then spend your money on a daily sunscreen (as not everyone can get away with a cheaper one but it is considered an essential line of defense in any decent skincare routine, the best sunscreen is the one you'll wear every day and for some that is, unfortunately, a premium one, there's no point spending money on actives without a good sunscreen in place, etc. etc.), then spend your remaining budget on actives in order of importance/tolerability.

I keep going off track as I meant to talk about the Medik8 R-Retinoate Youth Activating Cream earlier. I had meant not to say a thing for at least 14 days but the past 7 days have astounded me somewhat.

I've been using it daily (my intention was to use it daily for 30 days to verify their claim of noticeable results in 30 days, using it 1x a day rather than their 2x) but I'll cut that down to 14, then alternate from that point on. I felt it was safe enough for me to trial at such high intensity as the type of retinol is not new to me and I know my skin gets on well with it, the only other active in the formula is Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate which is the Vit C derivative in the Medik8 CE Tetra that I have also used in the past and liked a lot too. Medik8 also promised no irritation so I wanted to test that too.

I stopped using P50 during this time to truly evaluate the product in isolation, have continued to use the Vichy vitamin C.

First impressions, it's got a misleading name, it's not really a cream but it is in a 50ml dispenser. So basically a serum but with more contents than most which makes up for the high price tag somewhat, but crucially makes it cheaper than the Verso Facial Serum and it's a similar consistency. I can get away with using slightly less of the Medik8 to cover face neck and the deco area. I use the LRP Toleriane Ultra Nuit on top but I can use less of it, the serum on its own would not suffice for me, but possibly on someone oily it would.

It's a lot stronger than I expected, it played with my sensitivities the first few days by showing very minor signs of inflammation (predominantly a touch of redness) but by day 3 this had subsided.

I had a minor purge on days 2-4, small whiteheads that would rise and go quickly (usually when washing my face, but accidentally touching would do it too) they didn't even last hours and left no signs of trauma behind on the skin. Didn't feel like a product reaction either.

On my left temple, I was developing a minor scattering of pigmentation, most likely to me not being diligent enough with SPF/Vit C on the perimeters of my face, had stepped that up in the past few weeks, however on day 2 of using the Medik8 it went quite red, by day 3 it had drastically diminished, by day 4 it was gone completely Shock Pigmentation from PIH, however, it hasn't tackled (yet?) but perhaps since that's more one concentrated area rather than a small scattering of tiny pockets of pigmentation?

It's done a lot for my skin texture in a very short amount of time. I've taken daily pictures, so I'm pretty sure I'm not deluding myself and I still struggle to believe it too but the pores on my nose have definitely minimised by sitting much tighter, whereas TO (especially the 2% emulsion) would constantly dilate them and the P50 helped keep that in check, which was an annoying balancing act.

The general tone of my skin is definitely brighter/more even. The scariest thing though, my forehead very much resembles Olli's at the moment, full disclosure, we're not dissimilar in age but my before isn't comparable. Mine qualified as very very fine lines faintly discernible if you looked really really closely.

So the only downside (apart from the price, obvs) so far is that the very even skin tone meant I looked like death warmed over yesterday as it was day1.5 of my period yesterday and it's a particularly heavy one. I don't want to pronounce it an absolute miracle product yet, but I'm very impressed so far, safe to say it's batting in the same league as the Verso Eye Serum at the moment (that does similar miraculous things for me and has had me loyal ever since) and what I really wanted the Verso Facial Serum to be but I do really need to reserve judgement until I use it 3x a week as I don't know if I'd want to financially commit to using this on the daily.

I'll continue to use every night for the next 7 days then move to every other day for the next 14, after which I'll reintroduce the P50 (or possibly in week 4 if the need is really apparent).

OP posts:
Skinfulnappies46 · 09/03/2018 12:37

Kiehls midnight recovery and their products in general? Any thoughts from you knowledgeable ladies. ? Skin just feels tight. Using pai rosehip oil at night and Avene gentle moisturiser plus their spf50 mornings. I'm 47 and really didn't seem to notice any difference from the hlyamide (Not sure of name japenese/Korean,fairly cheap)

RosieLig · 09/03/2018 13:08

@botemp - thanks for that Medik8 R-Retinoate review, it sounds like something I need! Any views on putting it on lines around eyes? That’s my most aged area....Thanks.

Tantpoke · 09/03/2018 13:11

So this little lot arrived today from SR Skincare / Forever Young which I am very excited to use and trial 🤗

The Vit C is freshly made so needs to be cracked open and used everyday till it runs out and kept in the fridge. I'll use it in the mornings depending on its texture.

There is the derma roller with sterilising gel that goes on your face prior to using.

A copper peptide serum (to trial after my NIOD copper) and a few free cotton pads which are actually very nice and thick.

🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...
Pupsiecola · 09/03/2018 13:42

Bo you're right, I should have included SPF in my spiel. I just assume everyone uses one daily!

I didn't buy the Verso from SkinCity. I've never shopped with them before and I collected airmiles with Feel Unique. But I will certainly do SkinCity next time.

Lonesurvivor · 09/03/2018 13:45

Bo here's the pics. I'm so annoyed at myself for getting suckered in by the price. I was telling myself when buying it that No7 is well behind with their skincare and not to bother but next thing it was bought.Shock
It does say it's two weeks dose but will last one month.
Where did you see 5% info? Is it on their site no info on my box.
I think I'm better off buying skin care on line where I can research the product properly first. When I'm in shops I find the list of ingredients hard to read, the writing is tiny and aside from one or two ingredients the rest is like reading a foreign languageConfused

🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...
🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...
Lonesurvivor · 09/03/2018 13:46

Just to add you and the others regulars have endless patience not to mention knowledge. Thanks for all the adviceFlowers

botemp · 09/03/2018 14:07

I'm the same Pupsie, in my mind everyone at least wears SPF and takes it off at night. Alas... Skincity is fab, the shipping is always free no matter the amount, delivery has always been quick for me and their customer service is one of the best I've ever dealt with.

Lone, I meant a picture of the ingredient list, unless that's in the second picture, hard to tell. The 5% info was on the Boots website, I'm just curious what else is in there.

Skinful, Kiehl's is decent, great in a few things, a bit mediocre elsewhere but I find them a tad overpriced but since they're quite nice to use that premium is worth it for some. I've used Midnight Recovery in the past, may have even repurchased it once or twice. It's nice for a night oil but it's not a true oil and it contains some essential oils I think, which is less of an issue when using at night but others may still wish to avoid. The good thing about Kiehl's is their return policy, you get your money back if you hate it or had an adverse reaction. They also have a really good sampling policy, so if you're near a counter just ask for whatever you're interested in, the MR sample lasts you quite a while.

OP posts:
SophieLion · 09/03/2018 14:21

Thank you Bo. No need to apologise at all - perfectly normally to miss a question given the number directed at you and the fast-pace of this thread! I will wait for before using the moisturiser as I don’t want to undo all my good work so far by introducing more than one product at once. Patience is not one of my virtues!

Thank you too Bo for the Medik8 review. Both that and the Verso sound interesting but perhaps for me to introduce in a few months. They will go on my "potential purchases" list. Keep us updated!!

Tant - been thinking. This morning I had SPF on my face after exercise. I cleaned just with the Toleriane after my shower (normally in evening I do a pre-cleanse to get off SPF then use Toleriane) and my skin didn’t feel as clean. Maybe you need to do a pre-cleanse (or whatever the official title is)? Just a thought .... perhaps you already pre-cleanse and I missed you saying that.

SophieLion · 09/03/2018 14:22

Also, should I expect some tingling from the Vichy vit C when I put it on then? Not sure I ever really felt a tingling with my 10% one Hmm

Pupsiecola · 09/03/2018 14:53

Bonkers putting Vit C in a clear bottle. Makes me think they want it to go off quicker, so that you have to repurchase sooner!

Top tip re Skincity Bo. I admit I'm super cautious when buying anything like skincare online and tend to stick to what I know. The Skincity price, had I seen it whilst browsing, would have made me suspicious as it's such a good deal. However, if Skincity is Bo approved that's good enough for me!!

Tantpoke · 09/03/2018 14:58

Sophie SPF is quite clingy as a product so you would defo need to pre cleanse, I only cleanse with toleraine on a non make up non spf face day so nothing to pre cleanse off as it were other than actives.

I always use a balm if wearing makeup or spf as my first cleanse or micellar water if I'm totally knackered.

I've not worn spf for ages mainly because I wake up in the dark, work inside and then come home in the dark.

I sound like a vampire don't I Grin
When I'm out the rest of the time I always just wear an SPF foundation during the winter Blush ducks and covers ears only really because it irritates my skin.

spring/Summer/autumn of course I wear proper spf everyday on top of my toleraine and have an lrp spf in spray form for days I come out of work and the sun is blasting.

I have just applied my new SR Vit C it is only 10% which I'm happy with because its a lovely consistency that absorbes into my skin so I can wear it everyday unlike the TO Vit C which is too grainy and greasy for me to wear everyday so I rarely use it.
I still have an unopened TO 23 % vit C and now the new TO ascorbic powder (which I will mix into my moisturiser when the time comes)

Also Sophie I use TO 2% retinoid emulsion followed by toleraine non oily fluide and it works well for me.

Ps yes you will get tingling with a stronger Vit C, this is a good thing. I got very mild short tingling with my new 10% vit c

mintmagnummm · 09/03/2018 15:01

My eye area is looking worse every bloody day! I have darkness (blue) puffiness and lines! I just look so tired even if I'm not! Why isn't there an eye cream that works!! Rant over....for now

Ollivander84 · 09/03/2018 15:11

I'm here. Just haven't had anything to post as I've given up making my skin better SadConfused
Acids do nothing visible, neither does retinol. If I divert from my routine I get spots, if I stick to my routine I get less spots. Meh
Vitamin C didn't seem to do much, HA serum feels nice but that's it
Nothing actually seems to make any visible difference

EnidButton · 09/03/2018 15:32

Olli hi 👋🏻 Sorry you're feeling discouraged. (If that's the right word.) Know what you mean.

Hair moan incoming. Feel free to skip it...
I've washed my hair. Need to dry it but I know it's not right. It's too dark for a start. Light brown my backside. I think she's gone to a level 4-5 when I was a 6 to start with. The reason I fret so much over hair is partly because terrible haircuts unsuitable for thick hair got me teased at school as a teen until I chopped it all off. I thought I had bad hair for years until realising that I actually have really nice hair. It's my best feature. I've struggled with my skin loads but my hair is decent. Thick, soft, shiny, bouncy, slight wave, loads of body, very easy to look styled with little effort when cut right. There's just loads of it. When I finally found a good hairdresser I realised how fab it was and I'd even get compliments off total strangers in the street. I thought I had cracked it. No more bad hair days ever. Then she bloody left the country and I'm back to where I was. How the feck so they mess it up when my actual hair is nice?? I give them the same description. I show photos. It's like one stylists "one length with a blunt fringe" is sexy, French done-undone hair and another's is Cheryl Cole circa 2012. 😩 FFS.

French hair that I want

🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...
🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...
🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...
EnidButton · 09/03/2018 15:33

(French hair that I want and actually bloody had. That should say.)

What I seem to have been given been longer...

🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...
🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...
🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...
EnidButton · 09/03/2018 15:33

Sorry. Don't let me put the newcomers off. I'm just having a moment. Ignore me. Grin

Tantpoke · 09/03/2018 15:47

Hi Olli >>waves