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🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hot Snails, Summer in the City - Now with added shelf porn!

999 replies

botemp · 07/08/2017 19:14

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6 Thread 7 Thread 8

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. In order to make use of the below form and join in I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

NEW ADDITIONS since last thread:

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.


If you pose a question and we need more contextual information to answer properly we may ask you to fill in the following form. Please only use this form when asked, unsolicited forms will be deleted. Responses to the form can be found here


Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

AUGUST 2017: Sunscreen is pretty much non-negotiable at the moment (not that it’s ever not Wink), RL bumps have been met in the road for some, unfortunately. Grief sucks but we do our best to offer a bit of comfort even if it is just something as inane as skincare chat Smile. Some of us are lucky enough to be nerding out in French pharmacies whilst pretending to do that holiday thing, the Shelf Porn Off is still on…

I can't believe we're on thread 9 Shock

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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lackingimagination · 22/08/2017 21:56

Hello 🙂 I love reading these threads, I love the enthusiasm, it's infectious! However I'm a total newbie and I'd really appreciate some advice as I've tried gathering the relevant info for my skin type but I'm just getting lost and going round in circles. My aim is to be foundation free by my next birthday (10 months) - I haven't gone to work/socialised in any way without foundation on in over 15 years now and I'm so, so tired of it.

cad186 · 22/08/2017 23:15

Mint I think those are the two Bioderma mineral spfs. I haven't tried either but I think I might try the first one when my bareminerals runs out. I do like the bareminerals spf but I use it on my neck too and I find as it is tinted it rubs off on my clothes very easily.

BagelGoesWalking · 23/08/2017 00:00

Milford It seems like a lot of people react to the Niacinamide so I'd stop that if you haven't already.

I use the LRP Toleriane Dermo Cleanser and really like it. Makes my skin feel very soft afterwards. My DD didn't like the creamy lotion (she was just more used to Micellar water) so she uses the Toleriane sensitive Micellar water and it's definitely gentler on her skin than the Garnier one she'd used previously.

Have you tried the TO Rosehip Oil? Also, lots of ppl on the TO chat room group recommend the Kiehls Avocado eye creamm* The price makes me blanch a bit but might be worth a try?

mintmagnummm · 23/08/2017 06:37

Thank you cad Smile

mintmagnummm · 23/08/2017 06:39

Just seen the first one is a spray, is there a cream/lotion version??

Ollivander84 · 23/08/2017 12:10

I'm not talking about my skin it's a bastard
Back on the spot cream again as had a flare on my chin

cad186 · 23/08/2017 12:57

Mint I dont think there is a cream version. If i buy it I'll just spray into my hands first then apply.

botemp · 23/08/2017 13:35

Attempting to catch up and respond to any lingering questions.

Welcome MilfordFound and lackingimagination!

Can't believe I missed out on the dressing table porn Sad still have a giant folder full of reference pics from when I last designed mine.

Othersideof40, please be careful with any new products, especially masks. Make sure they don't contain any common irritants (fragrance, essential oils and fragrant compounds, synthetic dyes/colourants, alcohol den., chemical sunscreen filters) as your skin is in a fragile place right now. As an aside, masks are fun but their effect is really temporary, esp. wrt dehydration.

Wrt facial oils, tackling dehydration due to a compromised skin barrier is a two pronged strategy. You need a humectant like HA to replenish and retain the moisture levels that are depleted due to the weakened barrier of your skin that would otherwise hold this in and you need an occlusive to trap that all in, acting as a surrogate barrier whilst your own barrier attempts to regain its strength. Facial oils are oft described as occlusives but in reality very few actually have the density necessary to inhibit Trans Epidermic Water Loss (TEWL). Petroleum Jelly has the highest TEWL ranking, but it should only be used if you're currently not reacting to anything, as its strength, the ability to trap in ingredients then actively works against you.

Dependant on how severe the dehydration determines what kind of occlusive you use alongside a humectant. In your case, it would be at the more severe end, so if you can tolerate Mineral Oil derivates, consider using Vaseline as a final layer at night (its heavy occlusive properties may interfere with SPF efficacy during the day if using a chemical SS). Squalane is a good alternative, slightly less heavy but has good TEWL inhibiting properties. Can't remember who asked specifically about Squalane, but yes, I think it's a good basic ingredient although it often gets mixed of with Squalene which is shark derived but has similar properties.

Bagel, yes the Hada Labo Premium Lotion is good for severe dehydration. I'm always more hesitant with the standard HL lotion as it can break some people out terribly. I tend to prefer the Kohaku-Hada Lotion (the Amber version) as its INCI is a lot cleaner and I've seen less feedback of horrible breakouts.

user, as yong already pointed out neck & cleavage don't really require a specific product but since you're more sensitive there perhaps just a no nonsense body lotion like LRP Lipikar may do the trick? You could also try a Urea based cream, like the 5% Urea from Eucerin (for the face). Not a full blown active but with a bit of exfoliating properties as well as being a good humectant.

The Avene Extremely Gentle Cleanser Lotion isn't discontinued according to the French Pharmacies I visited where I asked as I didn't want to buy and test out something that was on its way out. The very popular Gel cleanser was discontinued late last year. It's still available on the French e-commerce sites too but there does seem to be a change out as they had a value version of 300ml for a while and that seems to be on its way out for the standard 200ml so on certain sites it shows up as sold out for the 300ml but they will have the 200ml version.

Milford, how long have you been using the Olay as this also contains a relatively high % of Niacinamide (they're the ones who've funded most of the research on it). It may very well be overload as you've got 10% + approx 4-5% (which is fine on its own) from your moisturiser.

Are you taking up your SPF around the eyes currently? It may very well be that the high alcohol content in it is adding to the dehydration. The Kiehl's Avocado Eye cream mentioned above is a 'nice' eye cream for those who just want a separate product there but it's best suited for drier skin rather than dehydrated. Nothing strange going on health wise? Dry eyes (predominantly the eyes themselves but the ocular area around it too) can be a sign of Vitamin A deficiency. Product wise, Hylamide SubQ for eyes is probably your best bet although I would give it some consideration considering it's another Deciem HA product.

Just from personal anecdotal experience this summer, I've found that cutting out TO products with HA in it (just using the Retinoid now) has pretty much stopped me being dehydrated where it usually ramps up a lot in the summer time. We've seen this before with TO, specifically with their HA 2% + B5 causing dehydration rather than giving hydration. It could possibly be the L-AA format of Vit C that was possibly causing it with me but I've never had issues with that in other L-AA products and since Deciem is a big fan of Low Molecular Weight HA I think there is something to it there (the expert scientists tend to argue a bunch about LMW vs. HMW and there isn't much consensus - However, it may also be down to Deciem's formulations as the HL Premium Lotion has a whole bunch of LMW, MMW, and HMW HA forms in it and I've yet to see any feedback on that ever dehydrating anyone).

I do think it's sensible at this point to take a step back and simplify your routine a bit and get a hold of the dehydration issue. The double cleansing with two oil cleansers (as opposed to the more 'ideal' combination of oil followed by water based cleaser) probably isn't helping much either. So adding in the LRP Toleriane Cleanser or the Avene (mentioned above) would be good and I'd even consider using that as a single cleanser (used on its own or twice if necessary) for now as unlike the UB and BS they're not fragranced and since your skin is feeling irritated at the moment it's best to avoid further irritating it. This also goes for facial oils with possibly essential oils in it.

For AB toners see above but I think the Benton Snail Bee High Content Essence may work well for you too but be mindful of product overuse. The AB hydrating toners are basically like an HA serum like the TO HA and Buffet, just much better value and slightly more watery. The Benton is thicker though, much more serum like despite the essence name.

I guess you haven't gotten to the thread where the discontinuation of Toleriane Ultra Fluide moisturiser was announced and mourned, you can still find it in places but it is a 'light' moisturiser so if you need something heavier the Urea 5% mentioned above also could do the trick. Otherwise, I tend to rec the Eucerin UltraSenstive for combo/oily skin in its place, but some people were having trouble tracking that one down in the UK too so not sure on its current status.

lackingimagination, have you had a read through of the info sheets in the OP yet? If you can lay out your current issues and where you're getting stuck I'm better able to respond Smile

mint, just spray the Bioderma in your hands, then apply as normal. It's a faff but works fine, it's not an aerosol type spray.

OP posts:
botemp · 23/08/2017 13:37

x-post with cad there.

Olli, just talk makeup then Wink I'm surprised to not be seeing the much anticipated Morphe Shape Tape Concealer dupe and the new YSL full coverage foundation on your wish list yet.

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 23/08/2017 13:43

I'm on a foundation ban Grin having just ordered a cushion refill off eBay
And the morphe has just gone on my list Blush
Sadly I'm buying boring stuff like paint as I'm redecorating my hallway. Ugh

mintmagnummm · 23/08/2017 16:25

Bo and cad thank you. I'm very hesitant though as have read ALOT of negative reviews on it! Shall I just stick to my avene anti ageing spf 50 ALL YEAR ROUND??

mintmagnummm · 23/08/2017 16:26

Olli please do talk about ur misbehaving skin, it makes all of us sufferers feel better Grin

mintmagnummm · 23/08/2017 16:27

Oh and why is that avene extremely gentle cleanser no longer on boots websitw or their shelves?? Hmmthere is however a few new cleansers from them, all fragranced Angry

BagelGoesWalking · 23/08/2017 16:39

Botemp You've worried me now! I've ordered the Hadalabo JAPAN Skin Institute Gokujun premium hyaluronic solution - is that the one you mean? It looks amber in the pic (well, the bottle anyway!).Could you link to the one you recommend? Thanks.

Interesting about the TO HA. I apply to damp skin so hoping to avoid it taking moisture from the skin rather than giving it to the skin, IYSWIM. Did you find it drying even if you did that?

I was toying with getting this at some point. Any views on it? I'm quite happy with my TO regime at the moment but I'd be interested to hear what you think about snail stuff (sorry, I've probably missed it in other threads). Would you just use instead of a moisturiser?

🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hot Snails, Summer in the City - Now with added shelf porn!
botemp · 23/08/2017 20:33

Mineral SPFs generally aren´t that nice to wear unless you pay a lot more for them like Skinceuticals or Neostrata, hence the mixed reviews on it, mint. It's not awful just not as pleasant as a chemical SPF.

That's the premium one, Bagel. Reviews on that are generally favourable but then again mostly used by people who already liked the 'normal' HL. This is the Kohaku-Hada Lotion, well review anyhow, sometimes a bit tricky to find on ebay/amazon so you have to play around with hyphen. That's the one I prefer over the standard HL lotion but the extra moist version on that is uninteresting (they just add olive oil to it Confused)

Personally, I've never had issues with HA dehydrating me, I've had it where the form has irritated me and the damp skin trick does little to make that go away, except cause more irritation. I've never gone all out with TO, most products I trialled never got a RP but the Vit C stuck around mostly on a cost base so I think I just took the dehydration for granted as I'm genetically predisposed to dehydration but I hadn't realised it had been adding to it until I swapped it out for the Medik8 Vit C. Had also run out of my trusty Japanese Tenshi No Bihada HA cream before my vacation and used another trusty old standby that isn't HA based and therefore expected to be tackling more dehydration especially in drier/aircon conditions so it was rather odd not to be struggling with it at all almost immediately once making the Vit C switch. Could be other things, of course, and it remains totally anecdotal but TO's weak point is their formulations and sometimes unorthodox ingredients where comedogenicity is a large unknown.

WRT Mizon, I've never tried it but people seem to really like it. Not sure why, it's not amazingly special . For a snail product I'd go with the Benton essence over that, or you can just get that in sheetmask form to try out first.

Avene cleanser available here on Boots mint.

Don't spend your money on boring paint for your hallway, Olli especially not F&B Elephant's Breath just realise my ultimate dream of Surratt lined walls but you can go with Makeup Geek, I suppose Grin. Eagerly awaits interior porn shots.

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 23/08/2017 20:37

I'm going for Dulux chic shadow. This is my first attempt at any form of painting so it could all go badly wrong!

EnidButton · 23/08/2017 20:43

Can't believe I missed out on the dressing table porn

I'm always up for some dressing table/room, make up storage talk.

mintmagnummm · 23/08/2017 20:49

Thanks bo do you think my avene spf 50 is suitable and ok for all year round?.....also what is the non HA old trusty standby you used??

EnidButton · 23/08/2017 20:52

Nice paint choice Olli lovely, soft grey.

I'm painting my dressing room. Just a refresh. (F&B All White) Then Getting different Ikea drawers for beauty product storage. Unless I find something better suited.

lackingimagination · 23/08/2017 21:04

Thanks so much botemp Smile

I have had a really good read through the info sheets, they're incredible, I hope you realise how much people appreciate this!

I'm just getting lost with what to actually go and buy. I have tried various things on and off but because I'm never sure if they're the right thing for my skin or if they're doing any good I just don't commit to using them properly for a prolonged time.

To try and give a summary of my skin type... I don't have any problem with spots or breakouts but only because I've been prescribed dianette to combat my acne. My skin is neither greasy or dry, I don't smoke and am fairly wrinkle free (for now). My problem is with the tone and blotchiness/patchiness of my skin. I honestly look ill without some form of foundation on (close friends have agreed, on the rare occasions I do something without makeup on I have had people ask me if I'm ok!). I'm naturally quite pale which doesn't help with the redness. I have a particular problem around my eyes - I'm never tired (sorry all sleep deprived people out there!) but my eyes are always very dark. But it's really the overall appearance of my face, it's hard to explain.

The one product I feel makes a slight difference is nip + fab dragons blood cleansing/toning wipes. Should I go down this route? I know they do a serum etc.

I'm in the US on holiday at the moment if there's anything specific from over here I should buy!

MilfordFound · 23/08/2017 21:33

Thank Bagel, I've gone ahead and ordered the Toleriane dermo cleanser, it's such a staple on this thread I don't know what's taken me so long! Kiehls eye cream I've seen recommended before, but the price puts me off a bit.

Bo- I've been using the Olay moisturisers on and off for a couple of years. I don't remember exactly when they started stinging, but it definitely since I started using BHA/AHAs from PC which was last year [embarrassed] I also have the Olay regenerist serum which I presume also contains nia but doesn't sting at all.
Nothing going on healthwise. My eyes themselves are fine and not dry. Until a few months ago I was using st ives apricot scrub on my face every day in the shower. Followed by another generic anti-acne wash. My skin was so greasy that maybe it masked the dehydration. I mean it's still pretty oily, but definitely vastly improved to how it was. Discovering gentle double cleansing has made a huge difference to my skin!

I do take spf around my eyes. Desperately trying to prevent any further creping (is that a word?) and wrinkling. The spf I've been using is what I'd call a normal basic spf50, the kind you'd take on holiday and slather yourself in (I did get the face/sensitive version as well as the normal version but haven't noticed a difference in terms of use or sensitivity).
The Biore watery essence arrived today tried it on my face, so much better, no grease at all! It smells strongly of alcohol, so I didn't use it under my eyes and used the normal greasy stuff. Should I avoid spf under my eyes for a while? the thought makes me anxious!

I read the bad news about Toleriane fluide being discontinued. It's still available on Escentuals so I was considering ordering it from there. In the end I've gone with ordering cosrx snail 92 cream to use as day/night cream instead of Olay. Also ordered from EPP, Toleriane dermo cleanser, cicaplast balm B5 and Bioderma Hydrabrio brume mist. Oh and also Hada Labo premium popped up on amazon prime so I went with that too.

So when it all arrives I'll alter my routine to be:
AM
LRP Toleriane Dermo cleanser
TO Vit C
Bioderma spray
Hada Labo premium
Cosrx snail 92
SPF, Biore Watery Essence

PM
BS Camomile or Una Brennan Vit C
LRP Toleriane Dermo cleanser (or single/double cleanse with this if needed)
PC BHA
Bioderma Spray
Hada Labo Premium
Cosrx snail 92

Am I on the right track? Anything you'd miss out/add in?

Once my skin is happy again I'll consider reintroducing other products. I'd really like to try retinol from TO, but I wanted to have 6 solid months of using the products I had. So glad I didn't add it to the TO basket when I bought the rest!

Finally reached the end of thread 7 and caught up completely. Flowers to all those who lost a loved one Flowers

botemp · 23/08/2017 21:55

Kiehl's Ultra Facial Moisturiser, mint. Not something I go out of my way to buy as it's a pretty average moisturiser at a high cost but they gave me some travel sizes with my last purchase.

Looks a lovely grey Olli. Only tricky thing with grey is that it can go murky in a north facing room. I'm sure you'll do fine painting, provided there's supervision Wink just be careful with your back. I always forget about the strain it can cause in the lower back until about midway through.

F&B All White is one of my all time favourite colours, Enid. Much underrated and I love it for woodwork as well. The drag queen (he has a name, I just can't remember it right now, should probably say she too) put up a tutorial recently showing how they made those handy inserts on the Alex drawers with downloadable templates. I'll have to look it up again for you.

And for thigh rubbing material, I'm quite taken by the completely impractical idea of Old Hollywood giant round mirrors as a dressing table. I'll want a slinky dressing gown to go with it too. Just ordered this and another one a size down from the newly launched Arket. Thinking it might have some dressing table potential too for skincare. Also bought a hand cream to try and a lovely little nail brush and some clothes.

I've also been eyeing up this completely minimal white box ^ (also available in pink and black) for Japanese cottons and other bits and bobs.

lackingimagination, I wouldn't go down the N+F Dragon's Blood line route, there's hardly Dragon's Blood in it and it's not really all that impressive of an ingredient anyhow. The serum is also just a bunch of filler ingredients, then preservatives, then ingredients vaguely of interest but not in concentrations worth your while. The N+F pads only really contain Witch Hazel that could account for anything worthwhile. Since you're in the US it may be worth picking up Thayer's Witch Hazel Toner (I'd go with the original but they come in several different 'flavours' just make sure it's the alcohol free ones), although saying all that I'm not a massive fan of witch hazel as it can be highly sensitising and usually direct people to BHA instead as it's less potentially irritating but some do swear by the virtue of WH and it's pretty affordable.

Something like Paula's Choice Resist Skin Transforming Multi-Correction Treatment With Azelaic Acid + BHA could be good for you, but I'd try and source some samples first. Niacinamide also good to have for skin tone evening, the Cerave PM lotion should be easy to source in the US, as are the LRP Toleriane products mentioned upthread that are currently US only which have a high % Nia. The double repair moisturiser and the hydrating cleanser.

Avoiding common irritants also essential, even if you don't have immediate reactions, your skin is delicate and minimising all potential irritation is the best form of offence. And daily SPF, obvs.

For the skin around your eyes, it just sounds as if you're very pale and that shows the underlying structure more noticeably as a result, there's not too much that can be done about it beyond tackling it with specific Vit C/Retinol in an attempt to thicken the skin somewhat and lessen the effect optically. Is it a progressive thing or has it always been like that?

MilfordFound, you look to be on the right track. I wouldn't be too concerned, the alcohol in sunscreen is pretty functional but the Biore is known to be potentially drying for some so it was just a point of concern (had misread your routine thinking you were already on the Biore for a while).

AHA and BHA do mean better penetration of ingredients so it could just mean that all together it's too much.

Out of interest, what's the pricing on the Kiehl's Avocado cream? It's been a while since I bought it and even if I did remember the price it would be in Euros. I'm thinking the CosRx Honey Ceramide Eye Cream may be comparable (not INCI wise but more in a simple no fuss eye cream that does more than an average moisturiser type way) which I think is around £14 incl. shipping if purchasing from Korea.

🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hot Snails, Summer in the City - Now with added shelf porn!
🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hot Snails, Summer in the City - Now with added shelf porn!
🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hot Snails, Summer in the City - Now with added shelf porn!
OP posts:
lackingimagination · 23/08/2017 22:18

botemp - thank you.

Re N+F, this is exactly why I posted here! I nearly bought their whole range the other day. So glad I didn't.

I will digest everything you've said and have a look for products. The dark circles are progressive and not always there. My fair skin tone could well play a part, I never thought of that. The skin around my eyes is definitely sensitive and stings with certain products.

I just long for good skin. I'm so envious of anybody that can get away without foundation, it's truly the most beautiful look in my opinion. Every morning I feel ridiculous trying to achieve a natural look by lumping a load of makeup on!

Do you have any other product recommendations that are readily available in the U.K.?