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Fantastic Skincare: Skin (almost) sorted- decent fucking summer fucking clothes would be fucking nice. Don't ask us about our hair 🐌

999 replies

botemp · 26/05/2017 19:18

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6 Thread 7

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. If you wish join us on this thread I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.


If you pose a question and we need more contextual information to answer properly we may ask you to fill in the following form. Please only use this form when asked, unsolicited forms will be deleted. Responses to the form can be found here


Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

MAY/JUNE 2017: It’s summer and some of us are hourglasses (and otherwise beautifully shaped) that desperately need to bitch and moan about the severe lack of clothes available to us. Also, some of us are recovering from a ‘fine’ butchering to our hair. Don’t ask. Some of us suffer from all of the above. At least the weather is good, wear sunscreen.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
49
RubyGoat · 22/06/2017 13:26

Yes I've tried a number of clay masks over the years for my blackheads. They are not very obvious, BTW, but I find them quite annoying. It's more tge overall effect on my skin texture that's the problem actually.

RubyGoat · 22/06/2017 13:28

Excuse typos. I'm having major issues with the mobile site at present & MNHQ can't figure out why...

RubyGoat · 22/06/2017 13:30

I like the eyeshadow Olli. Especially the gold one. Are they creamy or powdery?

Ollivander84 · 22/06/2017 13:31

They're a powder but v v creamy to apply

EnidButton · 22/06/2017 14:38

Has anyone tried the Armani power fabric foundation? Any good? Keep seeing Sali H rave about it and I'm a sucker for hunting down The Perfect foundation. Happy with Lancôme one but curious what this is like.

(Again, sorry if I've asked this before. Feel like I might have. My brain operates like an unwell 90 year old's some days).

Interesting about the light masks/sex toys bo. The smaller handheld one might work for me as I like to 'patchwork' my treatments. Not sure I'd get on with the glare of a mask but I'll try to look at one in real life.

Tantpoke · 22/06/2017 18:18

Joy of joys an eminent plastic surgeon guessed my age to be 32 yesterday, I am 47 Grin (I didn't correct him (wink)
I am no longer quite as upset by the 5x mirror plus my eye brows look better than ever because of it.
Swings and roundabouts I guess.

Bo yes I'll be avoiding GA or at least using it far far less.

EnidButton · 22/06/2017 18:36

A magnifying mirror was, in part, responsible for The Great Eyebrow Drought of 2001-2 so I don't look in them anymore. I get too carried away squeezing and plucking otherwise.

Pupsiecola · 22/06/2017 19:02

Trinny doing some sort of what you can put on your face that's also edible type of a FB live later. She is truly bonkers but she makes me laugh so much.

olderthanyouthink · 23/06/2017 18:08

I'm back, still catching up though

I'm awful with (body) sun cream... once a day is what happened most days. Not burn or pealing though probably due to covering up a bit and spending a fair bit of time in the shade. I've got tonnes left so like another 4/5 holidays worth

Olli I haven't shampooed for 16 days! Shock normally I need to do it every 3-ish days but it just never got greasy, not sure why. No doubt it'll go back normal I a couple days. Also my hair was nicer out there, tighter curls and it looked fuller and shorter, now it's shit.

enid was it you that recommended a gentler version of footner? I can't find where I read it and the soles of my feet need a little attention but I think footner looks a bit too much

EnidButton · 23/06/2017 18:57

Older Welcome home! No it wasn't me. I'm a big fan of the original footner. Funnily enough I'm sitting here with it wrapped around my feet as we speak. It doesn't hurt at all, not whilst it's on and not even a tiny bit whilst it's peeling. My feet aren't in a bad state or anything so it just takes off what's needed. So it's the one I always recommend. Didn't know there was a gentler version though. Have you done a search for all the footner threads? It might've been mentioned on there.

LordWontYouBuyMeAMercedesBenz · 23/06/2017 19:01

Happy Friday all.

I took some inspiration from you all and have been gradually purchasing products to try and trying them individually to see which my skin reacts well to and which it doesn't.

Please could somebody advise me which of these products below I can use together and which should be kept seperate? And also what the ideal order to use them in would be?

Nip & fab glycolic night pads
TO Vit c suspension 23%
TO Retinoid 2%
TO Niacinamide & zinc
Paula's choice skin perfecting bha liquid 2%
TO Buffet

Any advice about the order to use these in and which ones to alternate would be greatly appreciated! My skin is reacting well to them individually but I want to put them together in a considered way, not just use them al and hope for the best!

Thank you in advance Smile

JDSTER · 23/06/2017 19:18

Hi lord. I'm not sure what skin type you've got but you say you've used them all without problems. I presume you like them all and feel they're working for you? I've got all except nip and fab. I'll tell you what I do. Use BHA maybe 2-3 times a week at night, alternating with retinoid the other nights, maybe glycolic once a week (it depends on what your skin type is and what you want the acids to do)
Use the vit c every morning. You could add buffet over the top if you like and need extra hydration. I use niacinamide at night on nights after I've used BHA. You can also layer the buffet over the top. Buffet would also be fine after retinoid but personally I use retinoid exclusively, with a light moisturiser over the top.

JDSTER · 23/06/2017 19:25

I've got my own questions. How often are azelaic users using per week? Should I swap out my BHA for the azelaic? I don't feel BHA is doing much now. I bought TO azelaic as they sell it in a dept store near me. I also bought TO AHA 30% and 2% salicylic. A potent product and now a bit scared to use after bo's stern words on glycolic use Blush. Anyone used?

Ollivander84 · 23/06/2017 19:28

I alternate nights so use it every other night
Retinol + moisturiser
Niaci + HA + azelaic + moisturiser

Am I use vit C

botemp · 23/06/2017 22:19

Enid, Cult Beauty just emailed me, presenting their fancy new Foreo 'wand' it looks even more like a sex toy as the model demonstrates it right next to her mouth on that picture so I'm guessing it is still very new. General PSA: they've also started stocking The Ordinary just when I've hit peak Ordinary.

I've only tried Power Fabric in the store. I like Luminous Silk a lot, ergo went to have a look and see how it compared but for me personally, it was a bit too heavy coverage. Does a lovely job at that, and not as heavy and mask-like as other high coverage foundations but still felt the need to put things on top to liven the face again, meaning I'd never wear it day to day. I also struggled with the colour, they don't translate one to one to other Armani foundations and the colour changed in about 30-60 mins, not really oxidation as it didn't go orange but it did go darker.

Well done Tant!

I'll keep an eye out for bonkers Trinny on YT, Pupsie. I do vaguely recall her mentioning doing a DIY SPF Shock with some 'natural' person that had me nearly fainting at the thought. She's highly entertaining but seriously has the most disconcerting brand of skincare advice out there, I'm always somewhat bemused that I'm not left ranting and raging as a result and simply shrug and go 'Oh, Trinny' Confused.

Welcome back otyt, hope you had a good time or at the very least enjoyed your bounty of good hair and skin! I ended up buying the Suncover sunscreen while you were away as my usual body sunscreen ran out and I'm really happy with it. Gives the body a lovely natural sheen, unfortunately, it's not working out on the face as it mildly reacts (there's some Nia in it) with TO Vit C but without the Vit C it works pretty well on the face too. How was your experience with it?

Yes, weirdly in hot humid temps the sebum production on my scalp lessens too. Where you'd expect it to get oilier quicker with the heat, it's the opposite. It may be worth looking into a humidifier for your bedroom considering how much of a positive impact the high humidity had for skin and hair (possibly nails too? Mine grow like crazy in those conditions too and are pretty much indestructible).

The mild footner was me, it was a Korean one, only really pulled a single layer off otherwise ok looking feet. Think they were called Monthly New Feet. Think the brand was called something with 'Pack' in it, will look it up later. The Korean footner equivalent is the Tony Moly Shiny Feet which really isn't scary at all but left my feet a bit too dry as a result. The Japanese originals are called Baby Feet and they also come in different variations but they're pricier so never tried them tbh.

Lord, forgive my scepticism but I find it hard to believe you've been trialling all these products individually for months (because that's what it would be, 2-6 weeks min for the non-exfoliating products and 6-12 weeks with gradual buildup for the exfoliating products) and be left unsure as to how and when to use them. Are you a regular daily broad spectrum sunscreen user because that comes before any of those products listed. Simply trying a product out once and having no immediate reaction, or within the next 24-48hrs, doesn't really mean you're tolerating a product well. I understand how tempting it all is to get a whole regime going but slapping on a whole bunch of strong actives in a short period of time is a potentially upsetting cocktail for your skin and will leave you with no indication what exactly is causing the issue. Apols if this seems like overkill and overly harsh and you have been taking it very slowly but caution should come before anything to avoid problems further down the line. Rough guidelines below:

Products with Keratolytic Agents (ie with use slough off the outer layer of the skin and make you more sun sensitive), broad spectrum sunscreen needs to be in place and topped up regularly before starting on these (in all honesty, we're seeing some extremes in terms of UV rays at the moment- ratings that are rarely ever registered in Northern Europe. Now is probably the worst time to be starting on exfoliating products for the first time). Product use needs to be build up gradually from 1-2x a week initially to 2-3x a week over the course of 6 weeks. Then 2 weeks to evaluate product results and tolerance of the product:

-Nip & fab glycolic night pads- are these the extreme ones? If so, these also contain BHA and a pretty high % Nia IIRC so you may be doubling up unneccaserily. As mentioned previously I'm not a fan of glycolic acid at all and would urge to be very critical on how your skin behaves with continued use as it can make skin more sensitive and susceptible to damage over time. Use 3x a week at most after gradually building up use, first step after cleansing, preferably at night. Do not use with Retinol or Vit C in the same routine. Using it with BHA would probably be too much.

-TO Vit c suspension 23% - build up use from 1-2x a week, gradually to 2-3x a week, then to daily use. Use in the AM preferably. Do not use with Retinol in the same routine. Never use it with TO Niacinamide or N+F Glycolic pads in the same routine. Use in serum stage, before or after other watery serums.

-TO Retinoid 2% - build up use from 1-2x a week, gradually to 2-3x a week. Use in the PM preferably in the serum stage. Do not use with AHA, BHA, Vit C in the same routine.

-Paula's choice skin perfecting bha liquid 2% - build up use from 1-2x a week, gradually to 2-3x a week. Use in the PM preferably but can also be used in the AM. First step after cleansing. Do not use with Retinol in the same routine.

Products without (or very mild acting) Keratolytic Agents. Product use needs to be build up gradually from 2-3x a week up to daily use over the course of 2-4 weeks. First 2 weeks usually give a good indication of product tolerance, product efficacy is best evaluated after 6 weeks. Use of daily sunscreen important in the grander scheme of the routine but not directly tied to the use of these products:

-TO Niacinamide & zinc - start using 1-2x a week, if well tolerated, increase to 2-3x a week. Do not use with TO Vit C in the same routine. Use in watery serum stage and if combining with use of other actives like Retinol, AHA, BHA, etc. it's used after that.

-TO Buffet - start using 2-3 a week, if well tolerated, increase to daily use. Use in watery serum stage and if combining with use of other actives like Retinol, AHA, BHA, etc. it's used after that. Can be used AM, PM, or both.

In terms of where to start with introducing the products into your routine (alloting for the necessary time in between, 2 weeks of individual use if your skin is already acclimated per the above described time frames, otherwise follow those time guidelines first): Buffet, Nia, BHA, Vit C, Retinoid, then AHA if you feel you actually need it.

JDSTER, do take my stern words on Glycolic with a grain of salt. I have a deep discrimination against it from personal experience just like with fragrance so that tends to colour my views a bit strongly sometimes (but I do have the scientific data to back it up at least). Though have to say from the troubleshooting on these threads and the random 'Oh my God! I put on Alpha-H Liquid Gold for the first time then went skiing and my face burned off!' posts on these boards that there needs to be a bit more caution shown around the ingredient. Saying that, so far I've seen a few reviews on TO 30% peel and I'm half convinced it's a faux product. It says 'professional strength' or 'professional use only' on the labelling FFS! A lot of people just aren't seeing any sort of results with it, or only very minor ones. Think Dulci tried it with tepid results but can't remember properly. I've seen a few have the opposite reaction, who have simply gone in too hard and too fast, from no acid use at all to 3x a week and causing serious damage but have yet to see anyone reach a nice sweet spot in between with convincing results.

Azelaic is considered pretty mild so I think potentially you could use it daily if necessary but I think along the lines of BHA use would make the most sense initially. You could potentially use it in the AM too, though TO version is not all that cosmetically elegant as far as I can gather.

OP posts:
EnidButton · 23/06/2017 22:52

Grin at the Forea sex toy. Taking skin care to a whole new level.

The power fabric doesn't sound like it's for me then. I'll see if I can test a bit but won't be blind buying any time soon based on that description. Thinking about it, Sali H raved about that Hourglass foundation stick that I thought was terrible, so we perhaps have different ideas of what the perfect foundation looks like. Or she's very very different skin to mine. I'm happy to stick with the Lancôme one.

Strange thing. I put nail envy on about 3 hours ago, just rubbed Hand Chemistry pro repair cream into my hands and massaged it into my cuticles and it took the nail Envy off! Shock

I've been wondering why I was needing to reapply the Nail Envy more than I used to. Now I know. I thought it was just from cleaning or something. So that's my hand care dream team split up for good. Need to find another cuticle balm/cream.

Will be soaking my feet for an hour each night until the Footner has done it's thing so I'll keep you all posted. I'm sure you'll be gripped. Grin

LordWontYouBuyMeAMercedesBenz · 24/06/2017 09:37

Thank you for the replies. Bo yes I have been using SPF, it was one of the first items I bought when I first joined this thread and have been using it daily as advised. My only worry about that is how do you go about reapplying it every couple of hours as advised when wearing make up? Do I have to take off and start again? (Please say no!)

Regarding the products listed, I have been using the Vit c, n&f pads and retinoid for about 5-6 weeks now. I use Vit c in the am before moisturiser and SPF and have been using the n&f pads in the pm then later the retinoid before oil and moisturiser. My skin has improved with them so wanted to take the next step and add more products now. I purchased the nia, PC bha and buffet a couple weeks ago and have been trying the bha before the Vit c and the others instead of the retinoid in the pm but wasn't entirely sure f this was the correct thing to do hence coming here for advice.

I will do as suggested and just introduce one product at a time.

Does this look ok for a routine if I leave out the n&f pads and the buffet?

Am:
Cleanse (existing products)
PC bha 2% (new)
Vit c 23% (used for 6wks)
Moisturiser (existing products)
SPF (existing product)

Pm:
Cleanse (existing product)
Nia (new)
Retinoid (used for 6 weeks)
Oil (pai used for 6 weeks)
Moisturiser (existing products)

So the only new products would be the nia to evening routine and the PC bha to the am?

I'm sorry if I sound like I don't know what I'm doing, I'm really trying to learn from you all here and I do feel like I am making progress, u til reading these threads I'd never bothered with SPF, never heard of any of these products and never realised there was an order to applying products so I am learning! But I know I still have lots to learn!

botemp · 24/06/2017 10:31

Lord, apologies if I made you feel insecure or not sure what you're doing. It's always hard for me to gage between genuine naivete and uncertainty on here and I really want to avoid disappointments with people using too much all at once. You look to be well on your way and making the right connections on your own wrt next steps. It can get confusing, especially with the order of products, normally you'd use Vit C before BHA due to the pH but TO Vit C isn't pH dependent (and a lot of derivatives aren't either) so can be used at a different stage, it takes a while to wrap one's head around these things and I continue to learn new things all the time as well, so don't worry.

Yes, if taking out N&F pads and replacing it with Nia and BHA makes sense in the places they are currently. I'd try the Nia on its own for a week and then introduce the BHA provided you encounter no issues with the Nia and adhere to the guidelines above about frequency of use (am assuming that the current routine means you're not intending to use all of these products every day, alternating some, where others are used daily). Buffet would be the thing to introduce next, if you're managing well with both of these you can probably start introducing that a bit sooner than stringent guidelines above and you already have some acclimation to Nia and BHA through the use of the N&F pads. Buffet is mostly a hydrating product that doesn't really interact much with other actives so the risks are low but you may have to evaluate the necessity of moisturisers and/or oil at this time of year if you're on the combo/oily spectrum (which I assume you are on the back of the chosen actives).

WRT SPF reapplication, it's topping up every two hours of prolonged direct sun exposure. So it's not the case that once you've applied sunscreen it then degrades within two hours. The two hours is a general guideline, darker skin will have more leeway and vice versa for very pale skin. The two-hour mark really refers to direct sun exposure. So in this summer weather, if you stick to the shade, aren't out on a terrace for lunch and don't have to sit in front of a giant sun facing window all day, then aiming for one to two reapplications should be more than sufficient and that can be a less failsafe product that shouldn't be your first choice of primary sunscreens like the Bioderma water spray, or the mineral powder sunscreens like Thomas Roth.

Though I'm not usually the biggest fan of relying on makeup for SPF there are some out there like It Cosmetics CC cream that provides relatively good broad-spectrum coverage as a top up product and there are some choices in mineral makeup too (provided your base SPF is not avobenzone based). Ideally, you'd use a good SPF as your base layer and then top it up with a tinted sunscreen that has good cosmetic elegance (like the Bioderma Nude Touch or the Neostrata or Skinceuticals) and treat that like your foundation with which you top up during the day in a somewhat thinner layer than a standard sunscreen application. So in the AM, first layer of standard SPF, then a second layer of tinted SPF, then powder/blush/etc. top up around lunch time with the tinted SPF with gentle patting motions (you could even contemplate a beauty blender) and reapply any other makeup products, if necessary repeat somewhere mid-afternoon.

It's very dependant though on the type of makeup you use, if it's full on long wearing and precisely applied then something like the Bioderma water spray is probably your best bet. Between 11-16 is the time to take extra precautions as that is when UV rays are at their highest, so if I know I'm heading out for an unknown time I'll reapply then. I consider it a good day when I manage a single top up this time of year, the multiple top-ups really only happen when I actively spend a lot of time outdoors and don't have an active choice in seeking shade, remaining indoors, etc. and prepare accordingly as a result. The rest of the year it's usually a once a day application affair for me.

OP posts:
botemp · 24/06/2017 10:44

Enid, it was pink too... but I think we're the only ones seeing it as such since the picture was pretty big on that newsletter. Though going by the titillating names slapped on most makeup it was only inevitable really that sex and skincare became synonymous. I'm sure there's some research somewhere to back it all up, screw diet and cleansing, just screw instead for a bright and healthy complexion Halo

I've never like Sali H's recs for foundations, she has very dry skin that's also dehydrated and her favourite foundations seem to be very heavy and creamy. I am curious about that very expensive Suqqu one but pretty sure it wouldn't be my cup of tea. I had bought the Givenchy Balm Couture one before she had started raving about it, initially I liked it but then it became unworkable, thick, and heavy. I remember looking into a Guerlain one she raved about around the same time and that had the same problems. So Sali H's favourite foundations are forever rendered as such in my mind, probably unfairly but aside from colouring we just don't have much in common in terms of foundation desires.

has another lovely new video featuring the new Chanel cushion and that actually looks really good. Initially, I wasn't interested, the whole sponge thing freaks me out but this is one of those net ones so not as unhygienic in theory and it looks really good on the model on that video (who looks to be quite fair as well). Will have a look at it later today to see what it's like.

Ah the feet soaking... That's what I liked about the Korean footner light version, I did soak before using but by the time I remembered to do it in the days after, the peeling had already started and pretty much was done in a day. Again, really good as an in-between not if you want the full on slough.

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 24/06/2017 20:04

botemp - any advice? This is a weird one for you! So I wear a riding hat, and if it's hot/sweaty, it marks my forehead for maybe an hour
I took my riding hat off (wasn't riding, long story) about 7 HOURS ago and I have a bright red strip across my forehead still ConfusedConfused
Attached photo of attractive red strip

Fantastic Skincare: Skin (almost) sorted- decent fucking summer fucking clothes would be fucking nice. Don't ask us about our hair 🐌
botemp · 24/06/2017 20:51

Ehm, can't see a very distinctive red stripe, just general redness Confused Is it possible you rubbed off your sunscreen through the friction of the hat and ended up with a slight burn? How long since you last wore the hat, how does that work hygiene wise anyhow?

Have you cleansed yet? Serozinc or Aloe will help soothe it, but keep your routine minimal. Leave the actives for what they are for tonight and see how you get on over the next few days.

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 24/06/2017 20:58

My hat covers my whole forehead hence the general redness < sobs >
Cleansed as normal, have shoved some serozinc on. SPF should have been ok, it's 16c and overcast here plus I went home after so no real exposure
Um hygiene? BlushGrin

JDSTER · 24/06/2017 21:10

We haven't talked hair for a while but I had mine cut last week and I'm not happy with it Angry. Really short layer at the back. I've noticed a few threads in S&B about people despairing of finding a good hairdresser.

botemp · 24/06/2017 21:29

Oh no Shock at least we'll be perceived as really cool with our perma-scowls and considering what I charge for the conceptual pieces probably really expensive too

What is it with hairdressers? I used to go to a really fancy French hairdresser (who was very good but he kept cancelling on me because he was always hungover and pretending to be sick instead) and he always swore that the best hairdressers were in the UK, which frankly, is high compliments from a French man. My previous salon also went to the UK especially for training as it was supposed to be the best bar none.

FFS short layers at the back make no sense to me at all and I have absolutely no expertise in the hair. Complain away JDSTER, I've dialed down on my shit talk on clothes and first world body problems so there's plenty of space Halo

Um... yes... hygiene, Olli. I know someone who wears a baseball cap all the time and that has to be the worst smelling thing ever. And he wonders why he has adult acne on his forehead and an irritated scalp Hmm I'm thinking it just may be the sweat and that it's been a while since you last wore it causing a bit of inflammation then.

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 24/06/2017 21:41

Ahem. It could be. I did a quick question on my FB and the majority of us never clean our hats Blush I may try attacking it with some wipes, the inside isn't removable