Fantastic Skincare: Skin (almost) sorted- decent fucking summer fucking clothes would be fucking nice. Don't ask us about our hair 🐌

[botemp]

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6 Thread 7

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. If you wish join us on this thread I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

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If you pose a question and we need more contextual information to answer properly we may ask you to fill in the following form. Please only use this form when asked, unsolicited forms will be deleted. Responses to the form can be found here

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Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

MAY/JUNE 2017: It’s summer and some of us are hourglasses (and otherwise beautifully shaped) that desperately need to bitch and moan about the severe lack of clothes available to us. Also, some of us are recovering from a ‘fine’ butchering to our hair. Don’t ask. Some of us suffer from all of the above. At least the weather is good, wear sunscreen.

Dulci I usually do Tabata skipping (20 seconds on, 10 seconds rest - 4 times through X5). I have a brilliant app called "seconds" and I crank Spotify up. It's over before you know it :-)

Dulci I skipped the park run was playing monopoly with my brother instead.

With regards to food...I've cut out wheat for the past 3 weeks and my skin has been better behaved. Mainly though I've had less muscle pain. I think sugar has the biggest most noticeable effect on my skin. I also look much much brighter and clearer when I ramp up the amount of veggies I eat. I do have inflammation though so as bo said that could be why I notice it more.

Anyone else had a storm today? Feeling much fresher around here now.

@LegoCaltrops ASOS have started stocking The Ordinary and the Vit C 23% is in stock on their website.

May I join you on here please? I'm working my way through the previuos threads. It's amazing the amount of knowledge you all have. I'm 57 and at the moment am using a mix of Ren, Estee lauder and Pure (from M&S) I'd thought I was doing ok on the skin front but now realise I need to up my game if I haven't left it too late.

I emailed The Ordinary & this is what they recommended for me.

AM
Face cleaner
The Ordinary "Buffet"
A multi-technology peptide serum that targets various visible signs of aging at once

Contains Matrixyl, Argireline, three forms of Hyaluronic Acid / Total Concentration of Actives: 25.x%

The Ordinary Alpha Arbutin 2% + HA
Alpha Arbutin reduces the looks of spots and hyperpigmentation

supported with a next-generation form of Hyaluronic Acid for enhanced delivery.

The Ordinary Natural Moisturizing Factors + HA
NMF are elements that keep the outer layer of the skin protected and well-hydrated.

A cream formula that offers non-greasy surface hydration that acts as a direct topical supplement of impaired NMF components

This formula contains 11 amino acids, phospholipids, alpha/beta/gamma fatty acids, triglycerides, sterols and sterol esters, glycerin, ceramide precursors, urea, saccharides, sodium PCA and hyaluronic acid.

SPF

PM
The Ordinary Glycolic Acid 7% Toning Solution
An AHA toner that offers mild exfoliation for improved skin radiance and visible clarity.

improves the appearance of skin texture with continued use.

The Ordinary "Buffet"
The Ordinary 100% Organic Cold-Pressed Rose Hip Seed Oil
Rose Hip Seed Oil is pro-Vitamin A, has been shown to reduce signs of photo-ageing and many other skin conditions.

They don't seem to have a SPF of their own so am think of getting the LRP one recommended on the first thread.

I'd bought a Rosehip oil from Face Theory last week and am trialling that at the moment.

Anyway I'm off to continue reading Thread 1.

SUNDAY SUPPLEMENT

We're nearly at the end of the month already so everyone start remembering their empties, trials, etc. I'll put up the format on Thursday again.

As argued by me before, no we're not more informed with the gluttony of choice, we're more confused than ever: Sunscreen label confusion putting Britons at risk, say experts

Basically an advertorial for Beauty Mart but snail skincare originally hails from Greece, ergo we must now adore all things from Greece: Forget French pharmacy beauty, Greece is the word when it comes to anti-ageing and they've taken that Greece label quite liberally, that SPF looks interesting though...

Standard disclaimer applies, same as the last time I linked to this blog about fungal acne (scientific background unknown, and therefore competence in peer reviewing should be considered when reading). Hyaluronic Acid for Skin: Literally EVERYTHING You Need to Know! fucking clickbait titles

Speaking of HA, there seems to be some new developments there and I am much intrigued by topical fillers, aka injectible results in a cosmeceutical product. What Are Topical Fillers and How Can They Reduce the Appearance of Wrinkles?

ARE THEY DUPES?: PIXI GLOW VS THE ORDINARY GLYCOLIC ACID 7% TONING SOLUTION - basically, yes.

Since I'm still one really hot snail over here with lots of sunshine, let's just go over all that sunscreen stuff one more time: What Doctors Tell Their Friends About the Sun

VIDEOS/PODCASTS:

The latest Snailcast (43mins)

Dr. Sam has decided to take the piss out of us poor hair sufferers on this thread we know you're lurking

Thankfully there's Alain de Botton to tell me I'm perfectly normal for obsessing over my hair so much:

Gothamista did a haul video, generally, tend to ignore/not share those but I was intrigued as she also had one of those showerheads that promise to improve water quality for skin and hair, interestingly enough this one also promises to improve water pressure.

otyt, now I'm reading that you skipped your way through a Park Run Much impressed, I am I think the skipping vs. jump rope term may just be a fitness thing, Americans on steroids reign supreme there. In Europe (or at least here) it really depends on your teacher whether you get taught UK or American SPAG, it would make more sense if there was one acknowledged one. I love MN for its extreme pedantic views but it's deeply colouring (wrong) perceptions that everyone in UK is still extremely competent in SPAG. I'm always left puzzled when I receive (work) communications from the UK and they don't adhere to UK SPAG at all, appearing American. Apparently, this is ok now as long as you're consistent which they never are. I have irrational rage at the sighting of thru, tho, etc. next tot the word colour

Enid, my mother was convinced arnica was a cure all for everything, it's pretty much the only medication I've ever received... anyhow for bruises, it reduces inflammation a bit and swelling which aids the healing somewhat but unless it's a conker on your head or it's actively causing you pain it's not really worth it IME. I commiserate, I'm a regular bruiser wearer myself, half of the time I don't even know where they came from (I suspect the bike) but I've never actually found anything that makes them go quicker, but not really looked into it all too seriously either tbh.

Dulci, I told you I'm weird with exercise I'm actually really miffed when the 20 mins are over! There isn't a lot of research on how hormones interact with exercise in women (in comparison to men, anyhow) but there's definitely a link. I produce more testosterone than average (thankfully no longer in dangerous amounts) and long endurance exercise helps me break it down and lessen its effect but I'm guessing that's also probably why I do better at that. In contrast, short intensive and highly competitive exercise cause a stress response along with a surge of cortisol and testosterone in me which is pretty shit for PCOS.

Going to look into that Seconds App, Pupsie, I'm doing an up and down number of sets at different speeds now. Was already contemplating getting a really fancy 'smart' rope.

dreamqueen, "if I haven't left it too late" is really difficult to answer at 57. If you wore daily sunscreen your entire life than you've pretty much done almost everything possible (barring regular Retinol use) but if you've been slathering on the olive oil with the first sign of the sun it's a completely different story. I'm a bit that TO advice their AHA but completely neglect to include an SPF in the proposed regime, they don't sell a face cleanser either but still mention it .

As a routine, it feels a bit meagre and one-dimensional tbh. Yeah, there's peptides but the science around that is so new and still not fully formed, it makes more sense to focus on long proven ingredients (which they also sell). Peptides are the Deciem showboat though, so in that sense, I get where they are coming from.

I'd want some form of anti-oxidants in the AM (especially if you're in the ageing category; your natural defences against sun, pollution, free radicals becomes less and less). I'd also expect to see a Retinol product with some actual punch, Rosehip Oil has high concentrations of Vit A but it's paltry in comparison to Retinol and over the age of say 40-45 not really of interest IMO beyond being a 'nice' facial oil.

The Arbutin- we've only seen one glowing review (from someone of Asian descent, genetically they do seem to respond better to this ingredient) and a lot of 'I'm not sure' it's doing anything reviews. I'm not wholly convinced this is ideal if you have serious pigmentation issues.

NMF- this is a very simple moisturiser, the texture is generally a bit 'challenging'. If you're on the normal/dry side I don't know if this would be enough for more mature skin, especially if used to more richer/buttery textured moisturisers.

Checking in!
at thread title.
Waves at newcomers.
Think the new approach reads well.
Skinwise, fashion wise and hair wise, nothing useful to add to discussions.
I am however, looking forward to posting my end of month review in the next few days...over and out

Well thanks to the info and products I've found on these threads I was told I looked 30! That definitely made my day as I will be 40 this year. It wasn't even a you look whatever age, it was god no I thought you were my age Now if I could get my body in better shape to match my face I'd be a happy bunny.

Thank you for reading and replying Botemp. I've added an edited pic. Until lately only used specific SS during summer or on hols.

What sort of anti- oxidant should I use in the AM?

I'm slowly making my way through the previous threads and making lists of stuff to explore.

Many thanks again

Thank you for the SS. Going to have a good read later tonight. (Apart from Dr Sam's 😠.)

I'll get some arnica gel just to try. Can't do any harm. Mega bruise has faded a bit more. Amazingly, where I walked into the bed hasn't bruised! I rubbed it really really hard for about a minute straight afterwards so think that might've done the trick.

Welcome dreamqueen. Vitamin C is a great antioxidant to use in the morning, it's a proven skincare ingredient and works synergistically with SPF, providing daytime protection. The ordinary do vit c with HA spheres which is a good entry point serum. If you're working your way through the thread you'll see it often mentioned. The texture is almost oily in that it leaves your face looking a bit shiny. I don't mind and I have oily skin, you then apply moisturiser over the top. If you're happy using a moisturiser currently, you don't have to change that immediately (despite what decim suggest!) Buffet is a nice serum and you can use morning and night (I'd suggest buffet after vit c and forget about alpha arbutin they recommended)

as bo says, retinol is another proven active for skin and I'm surprised they didn't suggest it for you. You would use at night (alternating with the AHA they suggested so 3-4 nights a week of each) and could follow with the buffet. You do need a stand alone SPF and you've mentioned you're looking at la Roche Posay which is a great solid brand for Spfs. SPF is an absolute must if you're starting using AHAs and retinol otherwise you will cause more damage to your skin in the long term.

I'm sure you've seen mentioned la Roche Posay Toleriane cleanser which I'm sure would be great for you.

Very well shaped eyebrows by the way .

BENEFRIENDS code gives 20% off Benefit if anyone interested

Yes, pressure after impact (and ice too) is really helpful in diminishing them, Enid. It's a nice staple to have regardless and should be pretty cheap, I have to stay despite my rather healthy scepticism towards homoeopathy, arnica tablets really work for me .

dreamqueen, as JDSTER has said, Vit C is the default answer (mostly because it's an antioxidant with lots of other benefits) and then preferably in L-Ascorbic Acid form over 15%. I'm not sure what your expectations are, Retinols are really the only active ingredient that can reverse signs of ageing (everything else is just maintenance and getting skin to be at its most advantageous) but taking in consideration your age the progress you'll have with OTC Retinol will be slow and perhaps therefore unsatisfactory to you so it's worth bearing in mind. Something like TO 2% Retinoid complex can be a good place to trial your tolerance of Retinol but if you wish to see more drastic effect sooner than it may be worth considering seeing a cosmetic dermatologist for prescription strength retinol and/or laser treatment, peels, etc. Anyhow basics first, but it may be that your current routine is already serving that quite well. I agree with JDSTER that there's no need to overhaul something that isn't working against you.

ilovetocook, lovely to hear that feedback (and from lots of others on the last thread to on how being here has helped you all achieve better skin). I'd love to be able to collate it all together somehow without looking like an infomercial I was very tempted to put in ohgoon's lovely words at the end of the last thread in the OP but it did end up feeling a bit too QVC with a full on testimonial in place.

Anyhow, congrats for the 40 going on 30 achievements ilovetocook. I can actually top that this week but innocent little grapes will have to die and be ingested by me in copious amounts before I recount that embarrassing tale, I blame the fucking hair!

Bugger it, 39 going on 30... I'd like to blame the hair again

I went to boots yesterday and was very well behaved
Purchases - invisibobbles for my hair, yes to cucumbers facial moisturiser (on offer) and grounded coconut coffee body scrub - this is the dogs of body scrubs, it's amazing and I don't rave about stuff often

Stupid question time...

I can't have caffeine. Does bad things to my heart. Can I use a coffee body scrub? Can caffeine be absorbed through the skin? Could I stop being lazy and just Google this myself?

Invisibobbles! That's what I forgot to get. I like the clear ones but keep losing them. Bit too invisible.

There's another brand that does not coffee ones? This was the first one I tried, if you view products and scroll down there's coconut ones etc. I want to try the coconut mango next!
https://uk.scrublove.com

Botemp and JDSTER thank you for Vit C and retinol. Is Retin A the prescription one?
I'm not anything miraculous to happen with my skin, just want to take the best care that I can . (thought I was doing ok in the skincare dept until I discovered S&B and the skin threads).

I'll add the Vit C to my Ordinary order & do more reading of your thread. I've done a LRP SS order from Boots.

I'm still in awe at the technical knowledge and product awareness on here.

Just watched Dr Sam video at her trying to make out she has problems with her hair! Oh what I'd give to have hair like hers. Anyone used oribe by the way? Costs an arm and a leg

Oh I scowled too at Dr. Sam and her hair 'problems' too. I vaguely remember my hair being so thick it could get dreadlock-like in the back, I'd love to have those problems again .

I tried the Oribe texturising spray that everyone bangs on about so much in store and not only was the smell horrendous, it did fuck all in the texturising department. The little it did do was gone in seconds, and I used quite a lot of it. Oribe and that Philip B line with their caviar and white truffle extracts look like an utter waste of money to me that's meant to appeal to Russian Oligarchs purely on their high price tag and that's coming from someone using the equally pricey Christophe Robin line almost exclusively. I've never really looked at their INCIs all that closely though

Yes, Retin-A is the brand name for the prescription, Dreamqueen. Not sure if they still sell that form but usually available under the Obagi NuDerm program. It's tough to handle and not all that pleasant so do keep that in my mind and only really pursue it for the right reasons and always with a dermatologist. It's not something I generally rec people to pursue as their first option and your skin needs to be really resilient. It may be that other routes are more of interest to you. It's a bit tough to say what as most anti-ageing research kind of stops focusing on skin past the age of 50, either because this age group has just stopped buying into it en masse or the promised effects just aren't achievable in that age group, I'm not sure. I think one of the few things that is seen to be effective specifically in that demographic (although results are really mixed) is NIOD's Copper Amino Isolate Serum. It's also part of the Deciem umbrella (which TO falls under). It is another peptide though, I'm actually surprised they didn't suggest you go and try that actually. Not suggesting you buy that, but more something to add to your lists of possibles to research.

Thanks Botemp Wow, that Niod stuff is pricey. I'll put that on the back burner for the time being. I think once my orders arrive I'll have enough new stuff to trial individually as suggested on here before getting into mega ££s.

What is the opinion on Shiseido products?

My Greek ex-neighbour looked really old... though she was 80 or 90 something, but maybe she looked younger than her age. She did eat dandelions, if any of you want to try that I'm sure we'd all be interested to know how it might affect your skin

bo I certainly didn't skip park run. I've barely moved today.
I had to google SPAG (autocorrected to slag ), I can't spell for shit - pretty sure I'm dyslexic but no one bothered to check, I was just labelled lazy and given detentions. When I worked for a French company I was asked to check stuff everyday because I was automatically correcting people's English all the time - most staff were European - and there were arguments about whether to use US or GB English when emailing people not in the UK.
I use thru & tho for texting but can't do it here for fear of the grammar vipers.

21 going on 16 (according to stranger yesterday)

I was looking for sun cream for holiday earlier, I want a once a day (will slap more on if I towel myself if or something), waterproof body one that won't stain clothes.

P20s website suggested I need SPF30 (at least I guess) for my skin tone and destination but I've seen other varying charts on this suggesting lower . So I was looking at either P20 30 or 50+, ultrasun sports gel 30 or spray 50 (though this one is crazy expensive so maybe not give I need to put loads of it on everyday).

Have any of you used one of these, or got a favourite?

Hi again!

I just wanted to check back in. I had asked for some help after a while of lurking back in January. I returned back to the shadows but have spent the last few months trying out all your recommendations

So I just wanted to say thanks again to all who responded to my post in January with advice and to update with his in getting on

So I did a large TO order...
Nia - didn't really see much difference after almost the whole bottle

Vitamin 23% - loved the way I felt it 'brightened up' my face but found the consistency really difficult to work with especially layering under moisturiser and makeup

Buffet - really liking this, it's going to stay in my routine

Retinol 2% - also liking this, so it's staying too

Tried the cheap superdrug hydrating serum people are talking about... Liked this too... Good for when I'm feeling dehydrated

Bought la roche posay anthelios 50....dont love it, but I have continued with it because I know how important it is. Don't love the feeling on my skin (but I'm like that with all sunscreens on my face tbh)

Tried the la roche posay balm b5 but it was a wee bit heavy for my skin and broke me out (if I remember correctly it has shea butter, which I'm not great with)

So just wanted to come back and say thanks again for so the advice!

And I'm still enjoying your postings x

I still win the age mistake races, even with otyt's entry, innocent grapes still need to die before I divulge further, ooh this is turning into a proper MN drip feed, I tell you, or perhaps I'm building this up too much

Thru and tho

Ahem... you can see why I like a forum that holds a proper slag SPAG as one of its highest virtues. Although I don't approve of demeaning a person on account of their SPAG as sometimes demonstrated on here.

Anyhow, prepare to be flambeed my fellow hot snail... once a day sunscreens are bollocks and only allowed to be advertised in the UK as such through weird loopholes. The rest of the world acknowledges it as bollocks. UV radiation is a lot higher around the equator so be cautious. I lived in the Caribbean (that is where you're headed, right?) as a child for a few years and POC generally didn't go to the beach much but if they did they all had giant t-shirts that they kept on (even when swimming) otherwise they'd burn really badly. Sometimes the neck would get burned and it looked really painful. I think island prices and terrible white casts may have had something to do with it too.

Don't buy anything that feels expensive as you may use too little of it to compensate. Minimum 200ml or more, it goes quick. The Bioderma Photoderm Max Spray is pretty affordable (with EPP) at 400ml, comes in SPF30 and SPF50+. It's waterproof/resistant but I'd still reapply after getting in the water. The LRP Anthelios Body one is also highly water resistant, I like the dermo paediatrics version from them (and since you're gadget girl they currently have this offer, with a somewhat useless UV patch that communicates with your phone but you'd still have fun with it ). All contain avobenzone though, can't remember who it was on here but someone mentioned this caused clothes to stain orange. Never experienced that myself but maybe I've just been lucky? FYI P20 and Ultrasun also contain Avobenzone.

Shiseido, DQ, is great for sunscreen (cheaper to get from Japan directly though under their daughter brands like Anessa). Even though I'm quite into Japanese skincare I've never tried much of their skincare things recently. Feels pricey for what it is but there are a few standout products.