Yet More Fantastic Skincare and Where To Find It

[botemp]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1,2, and 3 are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault.

This January we're doing some added extra chitchat about food and diet and reducing or eliminating sugar for both overall and skin health. Recipe sharing encouraged.

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then . Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

If you want help, please do read through the previous threads first. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one or to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

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Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:

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Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly either.

Tsmummy thanks for the KIKO info. I was thinking about buying one of their small empty palettes and filling it with shadows to my liking in order to have a very small travel palette that I like, since everything else I've seen always has a shade or even two that I know I will not use. They have so many beautiful browns...

My DS in not really "interested" in skin care he just realizes it helps
He does not have proper acne (at least yet) just blackheads on his nose and the little bumps on his forehead which are luckily mostly covered by his fringe, but that is no proper acne, but rather blocked pores, and connected to his atopic constitution. Both things were only visible from about 50cm so not super obvious but like I wrote yesterday it's almost all gone!!!
He also told me he was asked about the bumps at school by other kids...

He was extremely interested in perfumes about two years ago and so was DS2 and they would both put after shave each morning before school (DS2 would said - mommy, I simply want to smell nice . Of course I said he smells nice anyway) and had managed to accumulate lots of samples and even made a couple of very nice things himself by mixing said samples. His own idea, I must stress .
This interest has disappeared, sadly....

Before I forget again, ASOS is now selling a limited range of TO! Which means faster shipping (it usually takes a few days to dispatch sunshiney78 and there's been a notice about possible delays in the checkout area for at least the last few months) and more importantly free shipping when making smaller orders and possible discounts. Might have to actually pay attention to those vouchers they keep sending me now.

Niacinamide is a B vitamin and Rice Bran Oil is full of B vitamins so in that sense Niacinamide is a more supped up RBO derivative. Niacinamide is also great in helping sensitive skin become more resilient so it's definitely one to incorporate into a rosacea regime. I keep meaning to have a look at the PC 10% Nia in store for texture and formulation to see if it's a preferable alternative to TO for some, where budget allows. Avoid the Palmer's skinful, there's very little RBO in that and fragrance.

Those nose strips are really terrible yong, they do more harm than good long term, same for those black peel masks from Asia. Definitely, try the 50 shades technique and regular clay masks, just make sure you're getting the right one, the green one can be very drying so it really depends on how oily the area is.

Tsmummy08, thanks for that, I know home pH testing isn't the most accurate but at least it gives a good indication. BR P50W is guaranteed steady at pH 3.0 (the others fall slightly lower, pH2.5) so my guess from those pics is the Vit C is in the 2-2.5 range which makes it slightly less scary and what I sort of assumed was the case, although it may just be increasing in pH as it ages, do you have it for long? I really need to start ordering my cleansing balm/oil ingredients soon, may just buy the Vit C to try too, possibly for the body first. Were you the one interested in their anti-ageing cream too, have been wondering about that and saw it's now in a pump. It looks a bit La Mer like so for those wanting a very rich cream over a certain age it may be a good one to rec but I'd be curious to hear of experiences.

I really like KIKO, for me they do high end makeup at affordable prices without too many compromises (the only noticeable difference I've noticed is that it doesn't last as long expiration wise), you just have to circumvent the sparkly stuff as it's really sparkly. The lipsticks are really good, you just have to avoid their very cheapest. The only complaint I have about them recently is that certain things shoot off on social media (though as far as I can tell this is actually quite organic rather than organised I don't think they actively participate in the influencer PR game) and certain things, aka their nicest standout products that are limited production, sell out instantly.

Will definitely look out for the Horizon doc, don't watch TV much anymore but will hopefully remember to catch that.

I think it helps that yo have a parent who appears to be fluent in skincare, they're easy to approach as they at least appear knowledgeable. My mum didn't have my nerdy interest in ingredients or actives but she was very much obsessed with oils and the ritualistic/self-care aspect of it. Neither my brother or I had issues asking for help when problems arose (well in my case it was her insistence that if I was going to experiment with makeup that I better know to take it off too and that that time spent for each should be about equal). My brother was a bit embarrassed when she took him to a beautician to get extractions but since he went 'along' with her rather than go there for him small delusions help with teenagers it somehow wasn't embarrassing.

My teenaged cousin meanwhile has two parents who are very spartan in their self-care approach, has nightmare skin and despite me attempting to help her several times just can't settle down into a steady consistent routine and prefers to just be lazy about it and accept the horrible skin she has, which is a bit saddening. Then, of course, everyone around her starts good-naturedly dropping various 'miracle' products in her lap that all together are probably only going to make it worse. I'm thinking of getting her a mini Foreo in the hopes that will at least get her cleansing properly on a regular basis.

If you're ever near Grasse, Aurora, you may just reinvigorate the interest in DS. All the perfume houses do factory tours there and it gets you all antsy to experiment even if you never wear perfume and it stinks on you anyway.

@GardenGeek

First of all it upsets me to read ‘wrinkles’ are causing you upset. 26 is not the age to be obsessing about these things at all, not that I think there should be an age to be obsessing about them either. Going by your skin type I’m going to say it’s most likely dehydration as premature ageing is very rare unless you’ve lived a very hard life so far with almost permanent unprotected sun exposure. Dry skin can come across looking a bit dull and pronouncing on fine lines but it does not mean you’re prematurely ageing, mid-twenties is usually the time when the body produces less collagen, it doesn’t make you look old overnight but in someone dry it can make it look far more severe than it is. Retinol is definitely madness, wait a few years, and also just for clarification wrinkles don’t necessarily equal ageing. It’s usually loss of volume and dullness that makes the difference. Paying more for skincare does not automatically equal better products as demonstrated many times over on this thread, I don’t have inherent issues with dermalogica, but if you’re able to use other products I’d avoid them as they are so extortionately priced for what it is.

Also, earmarking a ‘good’ budget seems like a good idea but it isn’t. You have to realise you’ll be replacing these products continually so it has to be manageable throughout, not be a single large investment and then hope for the best, and fall back on cheaper stuff because that’s the budget you had available at that time of the month/year/whatever. Seriously, save the big bucks for when you’re older and will actually see effect from spending a bit more.

The most I suggest for someone in their twenties wrt preventative anti-ageing actives is SPF (do I still need to explain this?), Vit C (for collagen production), and possibly an AHA (cell turnover, glow, boosting actives and an humectant). All relatively affordable to get your hands on. Retinols you can start looking into in your late twenties/early thirties (unless of course you’re acne prone for anyone reading along).

AM :

Ahem why do people tell me they know they’re doing bad things but continue doing it anyway. You’re dry and dehydrated, so try to avoid water as much as possible as it dries you out further. A gentle cream cleanser like LRP Toleriane Dermo or just a swipe with a wet flannel will do for you.

TO Vitamin C 23%

TO Matrixyl or possibly Buffet but Mat should probably cover your needs

You need to use a moisturiser here, currently you’re using none which is pretty useless as there’s nothing to trap in a hydrating serum and you’re dry skinned so you’re starving it more moisture and the little bit you have fed it in hydration evaporates. Try the Benton Steam Cream, if you’re scared of snails look at the Face Theory Moisturisers for dry skin, don’t buy the heavy anti-ageing creams that are often recced for dry/dehydrated they often tend to be too rich on younger skin.

SPF - Possibly the Shiseido Senka Mineral Water UV Essence SPF 50

PM :

Careful with the EH flannels, I find them rather scratchy on the muslin side and the microfibre bit rather annoying to dry skin (it’s great for wiping your makeup brushes on though), if you want a fancy flannel suitable for dry skin that minimises water contact (therefore respectful to your moisture barrier) that still cleanses well try the Sensai Silky Purifying Sponge Chief, but an ordinary flannel should do just fine too.

• Body shop Vitamin E Cream Cleanser - use this up. Since you’re currently not wearing a hard core SPF (and the Senka won’t be one either) and much makeup you may be better off single cleansing (again too much cleansing not great for very dry/dehydrated skin) with an oil based cleansing balm (the Heimish All Clean Balm is probably a good one for you and good budget wise) and following up with an AHA for a modified ‘double cleanse’ but just the oil based cleanser should cover you, if preferred follow up with a gentle toner or mineral water tissued off or a micellar water.

AHA - I do actually feel it’s worth spending a bit of cash on this. The Nip + Fab pads are affordable and effective if you can handle some of the ingredients I’m not such a fan of, however, I find pads poor value for money and their inclusion of alcohol makes me very weary of reccing this to you when you’re dry and dehydrated as it does little good for either skin condition. So, yeah, P50 is where it’s at for you. There are of course other glycolic (as opposed to lactic) based acids out there for you to consider, Pixi Glow is one, although that has some very mixed reviews and I’m not all that convinced by its exfoliating properties. But basically had I known of P50 and what it could do to me at 26 I would have been a very happy bunny. You’d only need to use it incidentally, 2-3x a week max, I specifically got it to help balance and strengthen the moisture barrier, tackle the dryness and flakiness and it does that very well. Get the travel size version, it’s spendy at something like £25 for 50ml but it’ll last you at least 6-9 months with sensible use. I have the teeniest amount of it left for a decant so if you PM me I’ll send it to you.

• Bodyshop Vitamin E toner - finish this up, but not really a necessity

• Bodyshop Vitamin E Overnight Serum in Oil - as above. Use the hydrating AM serum here.

• Bodyshop Vitamin E moisture cream - finish up and use in the AM until you start on a new cream.

Oil, either added to a night cream or on top or before. I usually say spend your money here, but if you’re new to it spend less. The rose oil from Neal’s Yard is probably a good starting point, alternatively the Una Brennan rose oil for a little bit less.

Incidental treatments - instead or on top of your usual PM routine you’d probably really enjoy the overnight sleeping packs from Asia. I’d say order some samples (from eBay) for the CosRx Honey and Rice versions to try. If you are using a sleeping pack it is important to do a proper cleanse (so with a cleanser and flannel) in the AM to wash it off. Sheet masks may be of interest too but get your routine settled a bit before jumping in and look at the INCI very carefully basically just come on here and ask for specific recs.

For desperate boost of hydration, I would suggest getting a Japanese HA lotion like the Kohaku Hada lotion so you can try the technique I linked to in last sunday’s reading with the seven step hydration and layer it in between your serum stages when you’re feeling especially dehydrated/dry.

@Elixiam

What do you mean the LRP DC soaks in too much ? How are you using it?

SPF use (for anti-ageing and preventing cancer) has nothing to do with good weather or going outside. UVA rays still reach indoors, and they are consistently the same throughout the year. Just because you’re not instantly burning does not mean you’re not being exposed to the damage UVA rays cause. Biore may be a bit drying for the winter for you, I’d say get the Shiseido Senka Mineral Water UV Essence SPF 50 for now and the Biore for the summer time (as a daily commute SPF, not holidays, heavy sun exposure, etc.). The only people exempt from my SPF mandate on here are those that live and work in bunkers and don’t see the sunlight the entirety of winter (we’ve had one rare person like this).

In terms of current routine, in the PM use the SubQ before oil and moisturiser.

Look at face theory for moisturisers. Acids help aid the absorption of product and AHAs do work in helping restore the skin barrier (provided you’re using it properly) and its ability to retain moisture and act as a humectant. In terms of glow this is the first place to look as acids help with cell turnover, sloughing off dead skin to reveal more radiant new skin. So yes, there are benefits with that, same with Retinol and Vitamin C and they are the cornerstones of an active anti-ageing routine (often with the addition of niacinamide).

If you like rosehip and it works for you don’t let me dissuade you from using it.

So routine to work towards if all that’s included (standard precautions and repeated advice per the usual):

AM

La Roche Posay Toleriane Dermo Cleanser (take off with a flannel or rinse off if preferred)
The Ordinary Vitamin C 23%
SubQ
Face Theory Signature M1 moisturiser or similar.
Biore Watery Essence SPF (summer) Shiseido Senka Mineral Water UV Essence SPF 50 (winter)

PM

If you’re going down the single cleanse route, I say use an oil cleanser here, Heimish balm as recced above, or Clinique TTDO, or Superdrug Vit E HCC, etc.
AHA 2-3x a week up to (every other) day according to need) BHA on nose and pore prone area. Maybe try out the Nip + Fab extreme pads tentatively as it includes both AHA and BHA, use 1x a week to start for two weeks then 2x, then possibly 3x.
The Ordinary Advanced Retinoid 2%
(The Ordinary Niacinamide 10% + Zinc)
Face Theory Relaxing Night Cream M10 or similar

bo just beingredients nosey and a tiny bit jealous...is English your first language? I know you don't live in the UK

• being a bit

Is it that bad ? Don't always prioritise proofreading when writing the longer pieces, apologies. No not first language, but a lot of my education was in English.

My pink parcel box came, I got these skincare bits in it

Has anyone else found TO vitamin C agony to use, feels like needles in face, washed off quickly but poor scarlet face. I only tested a wee bit I thought I had robust skin or insensitive skin nothing pixie glow etc had nipped my face. Should I just bin it and accept its not for me?

day2 sugar detox, palate still adjusting buckwheat pancakes with almond butter, filling but not the tastiest xx

No bo your English is Fantastic! I thought it was your first language. Very jealous

Pupsie my decant came today - THANK YOU! Now I recall seeing there is a specific way of starting to use P50. Was it start with a wet cotton pad? I really need to write things down from here as I often can't scroll back and find things easily.

I am currently using a sample of Laura Mercier candle glow foundation. It's a little more matt in texture than I usually go for but it has good coverage and staying powder and doesn't look drying. But I fear I never will find my holy grail foundation again after bastard Georgio Armani discontinued my hydra glow.

Since simplifying my routine and using LRP redermic my skin is in a very good place so thanks for all the excellent advice on here.

Current wants not needs.
TO buffet (running to ASOS app after writing this)
Kiko purple mascara. I had an excellent By Terry one but too much money.

Japanese sheet masks...going to ask brother to post some out if anyone has any recs. I think someone did mention a sleeping one? Might have been a pack though. I'm currently using the bio essence sleeping mask and I really like that.

User I too found TO Vit C stung a lot for the first week of two but I really don't mind (and I'm used to P50 sting ). BT in general I'm not attached to to the "feel" of products anymore (besides oils) but rather to their efficiency.

Feet - yes, wet the cotton pad with a bit of tap water or water spray if you are sensitive, and use literally 2 drops of P50. Then over a couple of weeks build up - so less water more P50, though mind you you will never need more than a few drops. Don't forget to use what is left on the cotton on chest, hands, elbows, knees etc. I even use it on my ankles if there is still anything left

It was me who mentioned the Gekka Japanese sleeping mask -
http://www.ratzillacosme.com/reviews/best-pick-gekka-sleeping-pack/
bo and I have been lusting after it for a while....

bo sadly the perfume interest has really waned
A while ago he was invited by a perfumier who works in amsterdam to visit her shop/ workshop (a friend made a performance where very subtle perfumes were sprayed throughout to suggest different subjects and moods, so we met her there) but he doesn't show any interest anymore....

Thought I'd post DS "routine" for anyone who is facing the same issues -

Weleda almond cleanser
Cosrx BHA
Serozinc
Weleda almond moisturizer for sensitive and dry skin (he has pretty dry skin).

He does it only in the PM and probably forgets every other day (and I don't nag, see self consciousness issues mentioned above )

feet :

Were you the one with the brother in Japan? (Will determine what to buy).

Need to read better, will look up my list of harder to source (here) Japanese sheetmasks for you later.

Aurora you've just reminded me, the decant of cosrx you were kindly sending never arrived.
Do you get your son to use an spf with using a bha? I'm not there yet with DS but only a matter of time.

user I still find TO vit c tingles a bit a few months in but nothing like what you're describing. TO do say that high stinging is likely with that formula. Could you dilute it with something else? Depends what else you're using at the same time. Please don't bin it though. I'm sure it could be re- homed!

TO Vit C has quite a specific formulation, you can't dilute it. Make sure skin is dry and leave it to settle in a bit before the next step. Use a small amount, three little blobs on middle fingers, press into opposite hand and gently tap into skin. It takes a while to learn to love TO Vit C, but as Aurora says, it's functional don't expect much more from it than that.

Acid toning helps penetrate subsequent actives, (AHA more so than BHA as it works on the outer surface level) so their effect is greater. Waiting time won't make much difference to that most likely.

JD and Pupsie Did either of you send me anything this week? Not a problem at all if you didn't, but just picked up a parcel at the PO and they said I had 2 things according to the card but they could only find one (Look Fantastic order). Anyway, just remembered that you were sending something so wondering if I should go back.

thankyou for advice re vit C, I will try again with a teeny amount. yes have to get used to functionality rather than inefficiency yet pleasurable for use.

I have a DS 14 nearly 15 like @AuroraPolaris who sadly has inherited awful skin from both of us. DH had to take roaccutane as a teen. his spots are very angry he has been prescribed acne side 5per cent gel, benzoyl peroxide, doing little except bleaching towels. Any idea what to ask GP for next, poor boy has proper pustular acne, very oily, now on back of neck and top of back which he hates especially as very sporty and often changing in changing rooms. thankyou x

Yes Enid I sent you the P50 sample on Wednesday, 11th. Send it normal first class. It was tiny and should have gone through a normal sized letterbox.

Would the cleansing oil I'm using likely be causing spots? I can't remember the blooming name of it and I'm out atm. It's the one recommended here as a cheaper alternative to the EH Balm. Something isn't sitting right with my skin. I posted about the blemishes a couple weeks ago and have dropped BHA and am only using P50 2 to 3 times per week. I have a large painful spot on one cheek at the moment. It's not coming to anything either. It's just there.

Will try to remember name of oil (my short term memory is shocking atm).

Pupsie It won't be that then. Thank you! Thought I'd better ask as our post can be a bit hit or miss here, and in case people were thinking I was rude not saying I'd recieved it ok.

If that makes sense. My brain is asleep today. 🙄

So B5 is my miracle skincare ingredient. Clears up marks and scabby bits left by spots in a tenth of the time in normally takes. But I can't find it in anything that doesn't also contain Shea butter and/or hyluronic acid, both of which cause breakouts for me.

I'm just dabbing a tiny bit on to the marks and crossing fingers at the moment, so far so good, but is there anything without Shea butter or HA that has B5 as an active ingredient?

Glad it arrived feet.

I'm just debating on whether to repurchase TO Vit C or try sth else. Where you at with Vit C bo? Oh, and yes, I really experienced the stinging, probably for a couple of weeks but it did settle. I also had it after I took a week long break (didn't take it skiing with me over xmas) but it settled more quickly. Use sparingly and pat don't rub; they're my top tips.

Finally finally, I've never used concealer. This may sound daft but how do you use it? Is it just a case of lightly applying over blemishes/reddened patches etc? I use tinted moisturiser; either complexion rescue or Laura Mercia. Both offer light coverage - I don't like anything heavy. But I wonder if a concealer would be a good addition to my make up bag. If so, what would you guys recommend I consider?

Hi botemp

When giving me my new skincare routine, you did mention by using the adapalene differin for many years it changes the skin.

Because I am now starting to take care of my skin more and really looking at it, I have realised my nose and top of my cheek as thread veins.

Is there any miracle remedy for these or should I just be thinking of camafloging them.

Enid your little parcel is sat on the shelf waiting to be posted! It'll be Friday when I get to the post office.