tell me about fur

[hydeparkhottie]

but I don't want to pay ridiculous amounts for it...why is it soo expensive? I've seen it on ebay and at markets for cheap cheap--and then everywhere else, it's super duper expensive...

whats the difference?

Leather is not a by product of the beef industry. The majority of the worlds leather comes from India (check the label) where cattle are specifically slaughtered for leather not meat

It is interesting if cows are routinely slaughtered for their skin in India of all places, where the majority religion views them as sacred.

Cheese

I have 2 vintage furs. Inherited from grandmother and mother. Both bought by high-achieving husbands for their wives in the 1960s and 1970s, and worn with a degree of pride and enjoyment by the original recipients. I think at the time they were very much a status symbol. Both bought and worn before the mass media campaign of the 1980s that brought general awareness to the masses about the fur trade.

They are a trouble and source of conflict to me, as I dont feel i can dump them, sell them on or wear them. PETA's advice is to give the coats a proper burial or donate them to animal shelters for bedding: both of which also seem morally wrong to me.

I have tried both coats on, and wrong as it may be, there is a decadence and luxury feel to them...combined with the horrible feeling of the animal rights issues. The fact that I am early thirties and lost my mum young[ish], and my gran is also gone, "things" have taken on a greater significance - these coats are items of clothing, but they were also part of my mum and nan's stories, if that makes sense? I have the original receipt for my nan's, for example, and that fur was, unbelievably, the cost of a house at the time....

Just some random thoughts really....

i dont blame OP for wanting to know more about this issue, at least she is being transparent about her lack of knowledge on this issue. A lot of people are against fur but don't really understand why or have any real knowledge on the issue.

I went to prague a few years ago and wanted to buy a faux fur hat and had to look everywhere to the bemusement of shop sellers and ended up paying more for a faux fur one! It was a tourist area and real furs were being sold everywhere so clearly plenty people do still buy real fur despite the public aversion to it

I don't think we should vilify people who genuine want to educate themselves about the fur industry

It's interesting how most people know about the cruelties of fur but few know about leather. I wonder why there has been hardly any publicity on the leather industry.

It is. I think It's because leather is so widely used in the western world. Furniture, clothes, shoes, belts, wallets etc etc.

We're 'used' to leather, It's more 'normal' and the fact that out of 100 msgs on this thread, a fair few think It's a by-product. People are encouraged to think that, you have to dig a bit to discover that it isn't the truth.

Leather is seen to have many advantages. It's strong and durable and most are in agreement that it looks good.

Fur in the western world, is purely for vanity. There's nothing else It's for really.

I think the lack of publicity is due to the fact that It's just harder to get people into the frame of mind that leather is bad. It's from cows. We eat cows. People don't care about cows like they do about raccoons/racoon dogs/Minks etc. Cows aren't 'cute' or 'beautiful'. They don't resemble something furry that we'd like as a pet- they're a food product/farm animal.

Just my two penneth :)

Ipokebadgers I totally know how you feel.
I think that they should be enjoyed as a historical curio/momento or in cases like yours - a personal memento to be enjoyed with no guilt.

They're a fascinating insight into bygone fashions.

Lol 'minks'. I may as well have typed 'sheeps'

That's exactly the point I was making re leather. It's just rankles that people feel the need to point and judge at people wearing fur whilst they are sitting on leather sofas/stood in leather shoes/ eating products that involve cruelty to another species. There is a huge amount of denial going on.

I wouldn't personally wear fur but because I wear leather feel in no position to judge others because I understand that would be hypocritical.

There should be more publicity about leather, definitely.

I see what you mean, but I personally feel you do have the right to judge. For the reasons I state above. Fur=vanity and is completely unnecessary and we KNOW the horrific conditions.

Leather is harder to avoid, and has its practical uses.

Not all leather is sourced from conditions people necessarily disagree with.

I personally don't use leather products but It's not easy, and if you don't have much time and/or money It's hard to avoid or find alternatives.

I would argue that leather is vanity/choice also. There are many, many products without leather very freely available. If you wear it it is because you choose to not because there are no viable alternatives.

OP- will you be flouncing then?

Thank you mrscumberbatch - i doubt i will ever wear either of them but they are a tricky issue for me. My mum's fur jacket is actually bang on trend at the minute....if it were only a fake!

Wear it and tell anyone who asks it's fake or look down at their footwear/bag and compliment them on the skin used.

Alternatively you can tell them to mind their own!

Did you seriously say that they just shave the sheep for uggs???

Oh my god…

It is a choice yes, I've never worn leather or used it. But if somebody has no £ and is offered a sofa/jacket/wallet free/cheap that's leather I wouldn't vilify them for accepting.

Fur isn't that sort of widely used product. And wearing it spells ignorance/apathy toward the horrors of it.

Would have to keep it on all the time as the label inside it clearly says that it came from"Jaffa Furs" which i think was THE place to buy furs from in Belfast...

Nobody seriously believes that about uggs, do they?

IPoke I understand your situation and why you wouldn't want to get rid of them.

Thank you judydoes

Surely if leather is a more widely used product than the cruelty involved is also much increased and so should be judged even more harshly when compared to fur?

Just because we are saturated with leather products doesn't eliminate the cruelty factor because it is an acceptable norm for most people.

I think the "by product" is also a way of people feeling better about it. In my mind, there is no difference between any product made harming animals, whether that be leather, fur or marine animals (for petrol-based fake fur and fake leather).

The only difference is that some fur animals, just like some farm animals, are treated better, and others are treated dreadfully.

Everything we use has some cost to animal life/suffering, and some products also cause harm and suffering to humans.

We educate ourselves and we make our choices about how much cruelty we will tolerate in the products we choose to use.

Perhaps fur is just a convenient scapegoat to make people feel good whilst ignoring the animal cruelty inherent in the products they choose to wear? Very few things are a "need", we won't die if we don't have that fur coat, fake or real. We don't die if we don't have that leather item, fake or otherwise. It's all about choice, but then, most of us choose not to live a very low-footprint consumer lifestyle. I know I like my comforts and spend most of my time in a "happy bubble" of ignorance about the cruelty of the dairy trade, the leather trade, the petro chemical industry, the slavery involved in chocolate. . . . . I could go on and on but I'm retreating back to my bubble.

hydeparkhottie Just re-read your first post, and I expect that if you've seen it on ebay and at markets, it's very likely to be faux fur (fake). Just the same as you can pay wildly different sums for Prada or Primark, the quality, design, fabrics etc used in faux fur can vary. The vast majority of what you see is fake, regardless.

I have to say to all the other posters, I really don't think it's obvious to everyone that "fur" isn't actually fur.

The aggression and hypocrisy of this thread makes me so angry.

So many of you find fur abhorrent but wear leather, eat meat and dairy and appear clueless to the reality that in most cases the treatment of these animals is poor.

These are no doubt the same people who keep guinea pigs/cats/dogs trapped inside cages and houses professing to be "animal lovers."

Not to mention the people who own aggressive dogs and allow them to attack humans - where are those of you fighting for protecting the victims of dog attacks?

FFS people should have the right to ask questions and form their own opinions without receiving such abuse. There isn't such judgement or aggression on abortion or religion threads (and for the record I am neither pro/anti abortion and believe there's a place in the world for all religions, I would just expect people not to receive such hateful responses to a question. Your morals are no better than those of the people you are judging as vile!)

Not exactly on-topic or constructive comments there Sarah which is ironic since you state that others should be allowed to ask questions and form opinions and yet you make mass sweeping negative assumptions about who we all are and what we do.

I think several people have learned some new stuff about fur and leather through this thread - surely thats no bad thing.

Not entirely sure what aggressive dogs have to do with this
But yes froth away....

I don't think the op has received abuse, people are just incredulous that in this day and age someone can be so naive about the fur industry.

There have been some really informative posts, which is what the op asked for, mainly about the horrors of the industry, but also about the cost and sourcing. I think it has been quite a balanced thread if I'm honest. There were of course going to be more posts defaming fur than condoning it, that goes without saying.

But I don't understand why the op had gone off in a strop, I really don't know what she wanted to hear.