will we EVER rid the concept of a TUNIC from S&B?

[Amblin]

no its none of my business
no there is still world poverty to worry about

etcetc

BUT STOP WITH TH TUNICS FFS

What do I know, I'm still in my Hush pyjamas anyway. I'm not the defender of S and B

Oooh FunBag I love the sound of your outfit.
Is outfit the sort of word my grandma would have used.
Also, I agree with orangesandlemons.

If I start a new thread about it then, will you come on there and answer?

Hilly, next week?

No, but you have opinions. You could have a stab at answering, surely? It wouldn't have to be representative of the whole of S&B obvs.

yy tifty

I am going to start a thread then. In AIBU, please all feel free to come along.

Okey dokes.

here

"I think that's why they are so hated. Because they are comfortable, mumsy, hide a bit of weight and are not tight. It feels better to put on a pair of stretchy leggings and a tunic because it fits nicelt, rather than attempt to pull on a pair of jeans which are too tight and confront the fact you need to drop half a stone. They are denial clothes (I speak for myself, not generally)."

Bitchy and sweeping insults, IMO anyway.

Ha 'femininity' obvs

Thing is, I have a screaming 1yo who is refusing to nap ATM - I'd be n a different part of MN already if I wante serious convos! Might b there later.

The mumsy thing - it makes no sense to me as an insult whatsoever. I am a mother. My body produced and nurtured three amazing daughters. It's also got the scars (literally) to prove that. Why wouldn't I be proud of looking like a mother? It's a big part of who I am. so I look like the person I am? Wow! That's the last thing I expected to happen

Forget 'fashion' - it's an industry. A misogynistic industry at that. What are clothes for? I think they are to make you comfortable, warm or cool. Able to carry out tasks. But clothes also enable you to be proud of yourself. To look at your 'plummage' and be content but that has nothing to do with the clothes themselves. It's from your own sense of self and what really annoys me about using 'mumsy' as an insult is that when you do that you are trying to detroy somebody's sense of self. To make them miserable in their own skin. I think that's pretty bloody bitchy actually.

(NL - warm in another wool tunic today )

Come to the new thread

bugger - missed other thread. oh well will C&P

A tunic is a slightly longer length top that doesn't need to be tucked in - that is all. You can get poorly cut tunics and gorgeous tunics - just like dresses. No one says "Oooh look at that woman in an unflattering dress, we should ban dresses".

I am tall (well to be 100% accurate I have a long back). I also have a big tummy. I do not want to wear tops tucked in - it makes me look like my mother. Furthermore, because I am tall, most shops cut tops so that they end at my waist which makes it look like I am a complete box shape with no innie/outie bit at my waist.

A tunic means I don't end up with a fleshy gap between the top of my trousers and my top (for some reason thousands of women across the country seem to think builder's arse syndrome doesn't apply to them - they are wrong, it does). I can put on a belt, or choose a tunic with a bit of waist definition. I enjoy wearing tunics.

What pip said. Tunics are long tops IMO. Some are well cut and good quality some not. Some flatter my figure some not. I spend some effort seeking out the ones that do because I like to present myself well - even though a few people seem to find that unimaginable in a larger woman.

Also I am tall and wish to display neither a gap at the waist nor any hint of camel toe. So prefer long tops.

It's from your own sense of self and what really annoys me about using 'mumsy' as an insult is that when you do that you are trying to detroy somebody's sense of self.

What I find really strange and silly about the mumsy insult is that this is a site FOR MUMS. Being a mum is not negative either. It's pretty common.

Please can someone tell me what exactly a 'tunic' is? Is it a dress is it a jumper. How would I know if I am wearing one?

As a public service, I'm going to attempt to answer Hully's questions

1. Certain items of clothing = "mumsy" eg bootcuts, tunics, some boots but not others (forget which) this is because they're "easy" comfortable clothing items, which generally someone who is a mother and doesn't have much headspace to devote to their clothing, or is not interested in devoting to thinking about clothing, wears. More fashionable clothing (in current trends) tends not to be easy or comfortable

1. Short wide jumpers are inherently better than others no clue. Sorry

1. Anyone over a size 12 = fat well, that's just some people's opinion. It can depend on your body type, how fat is distributed etc. Some women can be a size 18 and look fabulous, and some can't

1. Fat = mumsy I think this is because generally slim = young because the younger you are, the more active your metabolism is so it's easier to be slim, naturally. Once you reach a certain age, it takes more effort to stay slim, unless you're naturally that way inclined

1. That thinking the above makes you a cleverer and more knowing alnd all-round better person with a slight pitying disdain for those that don't agree. only if you're an arse

FWIW, I love fashion. I always have, ever since I was a kid and would wear 10 layers of fancy dress clothes because I couldn't make up my mind. Finding clothes for women is HARD. Men have it so much easier, as there is much less choice. For women, we have so many factors to take into account (skirts, what type of skirt, or trousers, what cut, what size, what colour, pattern etc.), as well as a hell of a lot more societal pressure and judginess arising from our choices. If you ever go shopping with a man, you'll see how easy their lives are. Spoilt brats. But then, I love that we have more choice on one level as shopping for men's clothes can be hellishly boring.

You need to put that on the other thread Abs

And, for people who are fashionable/interested in it, you can become very defensive as it is seen to be "materialistic" or a "silly obsession". I had an argument recently with two male colleagues about whether or not items of clothing etc. can be actual investments, or not. It can be - fashion designers are artists, but they are generally not recognised as such because (IMO) it is an industry dominated by women and gay men, and is therefore inherently "inferior" in the eyes of people.

Go to the V&A or somewhere, and have a serious look at some of the couture items, or even not. It takes serious levels of skill and creativity to design clothes, and it's just NOT acknowledged.

Absy we have all left this one, come over to the other. link up there^

Where / what is the other thread?

I am sorry if anyone is upset. Here is my 2p:

Being opiniated and judgey about fashion and / or style is just one way of being nasty. Lots of stylish and or fashionable people are nice, lots nasty. Similarly to how I can sing in tune, always know when someone else isn't, and am lovely to all the people in my church choir who are all over the show. I am better at this than them, but not better than them. Surely everyone understands this.

I hate "mumsy" used denigratingly on this site. I mean, at all, but on here? Seriously. Stop it. Say "frumpy" if that is what you mean.

I feel sad about some tunic-wearing because it seems that the person is underestimating herself. I mean it is as if she has adopted a very soft pyjama-y style hoping that it will elide her flaws, where paradoxically, the softer and less structured a look is (in general), the more suitable it is for the very young and effortlessly chiselled (of cheekbone, etc). I feel that some women wear things that they have chosen self-deprecatingly to look "rather jolly" or "no one will think I am trying to show off" or whatever. My own mother's look (as opposed to her mother's who was KILLER) is very unthreatening, very self effacing. I think everyone is happiest in things that suit them but EVERYONE on here is told to wear tunics and they DO NOT suit everyone and a bit of structure, a touch of glam or badassness is NOT inappropriate if you are a mum and the tunic is NOT badass (usually).

I am not gorgeous I am 5'4" and size 14. but sometimes (not crawling about a floor at a toddler group) I look totally killer. I look good in wedges or platforms or heels, waisted things, tight skirts and witty little jackets. CLearly this is not what I wear when I scrub the bath. But even if you are going to toddler group, why not wear a badass little jacket (it can be cheap, second hand) with your trousers that actually suit you and fit you (not nec jeans)? Or whatever. If the answer is "because I don't care" then fine, don't care, but don't get all upset that some people do and may even think that you are missing out.

I am coming out of a pregnancy / baby hole. I am not pregnant and not bfing, loving being a size 14 (as opposed to 18 post partum) and being able to wear, kind of, what I want (I mean I will never look good in a jersey body con dress but compared to how I looked and felt a year ago, being able to find anything fun I can wear in Age Concern is a massive thrill, I'm buying something cute for £4.99 nearly every fortnight and having a great time). I look at the tunics and sometimes think: that was me, a year ago. 3 tents and 2 pairs of jeans on rotation.

SO: I think the OP is saying: people who ASK for help, on S&B, can we not offer them something a little more creative and life-enhancing? Please?

i dont mind being mumsy looking there are plenty of things in my life that arent.

with two small children you only get to make a real effort on special occasions. at best you havebto do your best and be practical at the same time.

Fab post lost confused copy it on to t'other thread plz

Great post lostconfused. I look like a mess 80% of the time these days: I work from home and have a small baby, and have other projects on the side also. I am busy. My hair isn't often brushed, I wear skinny jeans and sloppy cardigans most days. I don't wear tunics, but I DO resort to mostly resort to safe and comfortable for crawling about on floor etc.

I'm not delighted about this, I am just accepting that this is the way my wardrobe and life look right now. I do not intend for it to be forever. Pre-baby, I really enjoyed putting together outfits for my work and social life, and when I'm done with the baby thing I hope to get a chance to be a bit more inventive and badass (good word lostconfused) with my style choices once more. And when I do get a rare night out, I dress up.

I LOVE style, and I take an interest in it. I love hearing about how others are thinking about current trends, or classic trends, and most of all, I love to help in whatever little bit of a way I can when others are having event outfit dilemmas. The style stuff is a hobby and it's no more or less worthy, no more or less shallow, than any other lifestyle/possesion-related hobby: cars, gardens, cooking, gadgets.

For what it's worth, I really do love to see stylish people working an outfit. Why? Because to me it hints at an inner creativity, an emotional intelligence that often goes overlooked. It's so not about how much is spent on clothes or the size of the person wearing them. It's to do with the attitude, the thoughtfulness. The consideration of silhouettte and the attention to detail. It IS possible to wear a tunic and look amazing of course. It's just all about how it is done.

Please don't come out with stuff like 'all fashionistas are shallow'. I have been loving clothes and style a long time; I have written a Master's thesis (and received a first for my efforts) on fashion and feminism - and I still do not know what the fuck a fashionista is.