Why is the bar for neglect so low?

[tedcherries]

Is it due to the lack of resources?

I know Mumsnet is particularly touchy when it comes to speaking poorly of parents; especially mums. But this is so on going now it’s extremely frustrating.

I have watched my step daughters care and basic needs just decrease over the years and it’s just so sad. Mum will not engage with dad (my husband) whatsoever. They use a family app to communicate after my husband took her to court for some other issues. She ignores all messages (sometimes doesn’t even read them). Step daughter is just 12.

My step daughter is hugely overweight, she comes to us utterly filthy, white socks that are black and holey, orange teeth, underwear soiled, recently got her first bras but didn’t take her for a measurement; so I did and she’s wearing the totally wrong size (by inches; it must have been so uncomfortable), then the bra she came down in was grime covered with bodily oils on the straps. Her hair is long and knotted. Attendance at school is poor, assessments and reports are mostly all below average. It just goes on and on. Screen time on her phone is 70 hours on average a week; this is while she’s in school too. No parental locks etc. Has been getting taxis alone since she was 10 to go to places which are a 15/20 min walk as mum won’t walk with her. She hangs out in town until late. Mum has been leaving her alone at nights to go to the pub and ordering Domino’s for her dinner while she’s there etc. She also slept on the floor for over a year on a thin mattress and when we sent a bed to her on delivery she refused to take it in.

Mum I think needs help and educating hugely. I do think she’s doing the best that she can but these things are growing more and more out of control and it’s just so sad. I have bought a load of socks, knickers and new bras for her to take home so she has some clean ones which aren’t holey or dirty.

I know this is going to be seen as me bashing the mum but it really isn’t, we are in utter despair and are just so sad it’s on going.

Mediation doesn’t work, court; husband got what he went for which was not to do with any of this as CAFCASS didn’t seem it was necessary.

The whole issue also is that she moved 250 miles away so now we don’t see her weekly anymore and I think that is the biggest factor; as we aren’t seeing her as much as we did before. We get all holidays, half terms etc and share Christmas/New Year. We would see her more often if we financially and logistically could.

Well it’s because they have no ability themselves without the backing of services.

Your husband needs to be reporting this to the authorities and keeping records. It’s not enough to just say step daughter won’t want to move, she’s being neglected.
if it was the other way around and she was living with her dad and being neglected like this, there would be outrage that a mum wasn’t doing anything. He needs to take this further asap.

Children love parents who have broken their bones and done horrible things to them. Leaving a child in that situation isn’t the best for them because they love their mum/dad.

Someone has to step up and protect the child.

Personally I would keep her after her Easter visit and immediately apply to court for full custody.
In the meantime make a diary of all the issues, contact school & social services with the concerns.

The bar for neglect is low for two reasons.

one, humans are animals. Small humans are usually very intensely bonded to their parents /a max of three or four caregivers and disrupting those bonds really seriously disrupts the child. You need to have a good reason to take a child from parents as you can guarantee it will cause significant psychological distress.

this child is 12/13. She’s at the age where bonds to parents are weakening but it becomes important in order for her to develop as a fully adult personality to start respecting the choices she makes. Not least because at this age if children’s services did remove her then the likelihood is she would simply run away to be with mum.

teenagers who are removed/put into care often make their wishes known by absolutely refusing to stay where the system puts them.

if the courts ordered her to go and live with dad then there is a realistic possibility that she just repeatedly runs away to return to mum. She knows mum. She likes mum. She won’t be happy with courts trying to tell her where to go.

at a minimum you’d get serious attitude - changing schools and home is a massive thing to do.

her dad should step up and help her - work on attitude to self care. If she is coming to you with make up then she cares about how she looks and you can use that as a lever to help her.

mum may well have been referred to ss. There’s two levels of help, mandatory and voluntary (or at least there used to be). This level of neglect is enough that mum might have been told to do some parenting courses and had some supervision for a while. But it’s (probably) not been bad enough for mandatory help so mum engages for a bit, tries for a bit, things improve, she gets signed off and it continues until next time.

Your husband is far too passive. He needs to de dedicating time every week to be contacting the school, gp, social services etc. he needs to be going there more regularly as well.

it’s shocking that the mum was allowed to move her.

The bar is low. I'm a foster carer and I've seen the neglect that has gone on for years before bigger something happens like a serious injury and SS go to court to remove DC from parental care. The DC come into FC traumatised. Sometimes they still want to go home. It takes time and patience to get them to feel like they are better off and safe with you. In your case if the neglect is that bad I'd ask SS to reconsider and collect evidence, photograph dirty clothing she comes in, any evidence of being left overnight alone etc. Your DH must be distraught. I understand the frustration of DC wearing incorrect size bras. My latest FC placement came with one pair of trainers that were 1 1/2 sizes too small, and no PE kit and only 1 school shirt. He used to wear it for the whole week.

It isn’t that easy though is it she seems incredibly bonded to mum and although it may be trauma bonding she will go back.

The OP has to protect her children and her husband has difficult choices and it may be he does have to move away in order to protect his oldest.
That said this didn’t happen in a vacuum and I doubt he will

I would talk to the school raise further safeguarding concerns and refer again to SS

At 13 she’ll just go back to her Mums. The court process is long and drawn out. I have a friend who spent 3 years fighting only for mum to ignore the order and return to court again. Spent nearly £30k on legals. The people who think it’s as straightforward as it sounds are the lucky ones to never have experienced it.

Wonder if mum would consider swapping custody even if unofficially. So she has the holidays the “fun” times and she lives with you main time and goes to school in your area. Like a swap she’s been mum school time for 13 years now swap even if it’s sold on a year trial.

If mum really doesn’t care she might agree as long as she doesn’t have to pay cms and you don’t put in a child benefit claim.

My sister works in peads in hospital and gets so frustrated with the amount of abuse that’s tolerated and excused away by social services. I’m sure there are individuals with the best intentions but they just aren’t fit for purpose.

Your dh can exercise his parental rights and refuse to send the child home . Mum can go to court to get her returned and then all the necessary assessments can take place.

What was the situation like when your DH was there? Have you had to bring him up to your standards, or have the mum’s fallen off a cliff since he left? I’m always curious when these type of threads come up as to how the child’s care was when the parents were together

What a mess.

Really she just needs to come and live with you whether she likes it or not BUT is she then just going to make her own way back to Mum? If that’s the case then in an ideal world your DH would move alone back to where she is in order to have more contact if you can’t all move but I do realise he is your husband who you want to live with and you also share a younger child. It is tricky because it then becomes a choice between his children - however only one is being neglected currently.

I agree with other commenters tbh - your husband needs to report her mother to SS for neglect, and offer to be her primary residence. Daughter shouldn't have the choice of whether to stay in a neglectful home where she's not being supported to wash herself or get an education when there's a healthy home she could live in. A change of school would benefit her too.

Or, as @DrummingMousWife says:
Your dh can exercise his parental rights and refuse to send the child home . Mum can go to court to get her returned and then all the necessary assessments can take place.

Of she will be distressed but this is child abused and her father is complicit if he does nothing to stop it. Phone the relevant authorities and then phone them again until something is done.
Start the process to get full custody.
Start recording all the neglect. Photograph things and write it down with dates.
You, and especially her father need to be much more proactive.

The child will be 14 by the time this gets to a final hearing and the family court really don’t like to get involved at that point. Unless children’s services intervene and even then, there’s little to be done. The time to stop this was when mum was moving her 250 miles away.

I agree it’s shockingly low, and sympathise with you OP, but there’s nothing you can do. A lot of parents are shit. You just happen to have a front row seat to this one.

Discuss with your husband what you’ll do if SD wants to move in with you (potentially when she’s an adult). Discuss what help you’ll provide her with, and what her outcomes will be compared with your son and your shared child.

Ultimately her biggest influence is her mum, and that’s what she wants, so that’s what will continue.

Exactly - I think making it very clear to the SD it’s an option and follow her lead. But other than making referrals it isn’t easy because yes the bar is low

I hear you @tedcherries

People here seem to have a lot of faith in the family courts but it just doesn't happen that way. My friend was granted full custody of his DD after the child's mum had gone on a night out and left her home alone at 3 years old.

By the time she was 6 the mum fought it in court and got 50/50. its been back to court over the years but the SS bar is so low and they say the mum is 'doing better now' and the child is older now so no longer at risk when left. (I've seen the reports) the DD is now 13, she has been suspended from school on a number of occasions, her mother allows her to drink and smoke while she is there, she doesn't attend school on her mums time. What have court and social services said? That she needs to have this relationship with her mum and so they won't change the order. Instead my friend just has to deal with the fallout of having rules and boundaries and being told every time she is with him that she would rather be at her mums as she can do what she wants there.

Can you call SS and school weekly until things change?
Presumably you're willing to have SD live with you? It sounds awful what she's having to love with
Poor girl she'll be getting awfully bullied like that :(

Please take her for a lovely hair cut. Poor love.

And just like that your husband is as guilty as her mother. This is a child being neglected br both parents.

What do you want SS to do? Care?

Agreed. If this was happening to my child, (or any child I was involved with, actually) I would be moving heaven and earth to fix it. It would start with a very frank conversation with the abusive parent who would be left with no doubt as to the consequences if things didn’t change. I’d be on the phone constantly to social services, her school etc to make sure the child was safe. I’d be seeing a lawyer to start the process of gaining full parental responsibility for the child.

Anything less is failing the child.

You said it’s been getting worse, how long is it since you last reported the issue to SS and her school?

Didn’t the OP say she was homeschooled ? She is very much under the radar

edited to add - I might have got my threads mixed up!! If she is at school then that’s a great place to start chasing ( sorry!)