Maybe it's time to separate after 25 years

[atacrossroadstoday]

Met DH 25 years ago. He'd been separated from his ex-partner for a year (she left him for someone else) and had two DDs age 8 and 6.

We dated quietly and all was fine until his ex found out about us after a year and went wild. I'm talking smashing up property and physical attacks. I should've walked away then but didn't. She had severe mental health issues and life was pretty traumatic. I think I got caught up in saviour syndrome, trying to smooth everything and calm situations and brokering agreements.

We bumbled along and eventually married but DDs never accepted me, partly as the ex said I split the family up and their dad had an affair with me, which wasn't true.

The ex died quite unexpectedly when the girls were at university. It was a hard time and we gave continuous support.

Cut to now and both DDs are getting married next year and DH is invited but not me. They've made it clear they don't want me involved or to be part of any future family set up when they have children.

I feel so stupid and exhausted. I've poured years into trying to make it work, including time and huge financial commitments too. And all for nothing.

I'm now at a crossroads. Do I accept this new situation or call it quits and try and build a new life. DH feels in the middle but is excited at the weddings and potential grandchildren.

I feel such a fool.

Any advice?

This is the point. What does him not going achieve? It's just going to be more hassle and bitterness all round.

I'm genuinely not sure how I'm supposed to feel now.

The mum had a few short term boyfriends but nothing concrete. I think she just didn't like her life but couldn't help bringing the girls into her anger and chaos.

At least not having children means I've spared them from the mess. I think I would've left if a child was involved and received any of this.

Another thing they’ll hate you for.

So whats your advice

OP needs to accept that her husband is part of a family that doesn’t include her, and she and DH are a different family unit. Like a Venn diagram with DH in the middle.

It was totally wrong to make DH choose between his wife and his daughter. Think how he’ll feel on her wedding day knowing he’s not there to walk her down the aisle and make a speech. Not to mention the daughter who is effectively orphaned now. It’s just cruel.

OP needs to accept that her husband is part of a family that doesn’t include her

so when and if he needs care the daughters will be stepping up and providing it or arranging it?

sounds very much like the situation i am in.. my DH has 4 adult children, all of whom despise me. i won't say i never did anything to deserve the hate, but what i did do was question their lies and manipulation! my own children were taught about the value of money, jobs, and not lieing, whereas his constantly lie to get themselves out of trouble and lie to their dad to get cash. i removed myself from it, i love my husband dearly, but the situation with his children was crippling me and i decided that i was leaving him too it. i would never make a man chose between me or his children, i simply accepted that i am not a part of their lives. its down to my DH what he does or doesnt do with the children now.

what you have done is made your DG chose between you or his children.. that will come back to bite you and i urge you to reconside this. no matter what happens, you are not going to those weddings, but i'd give him my blessing to go.. its his daughters and they want their dad to give them away.. and yes they are punishing you for not going.. but do you really want to go to the wedding of these people anyway?

not only them.. DH will soon start to resent her too..

Op, I just think you can't win. His dds are completely unreasonable, bitter and fake grudge holding. Your h is a limp-wristed weakling.

I don't think his not going to the wedding(s) is answer at all. More grist for the dds' mill.

Can you accept being ignored and despised by your h's children and he has completely separate interactions with them (and their children) away from you. Can you accept being excluded from this important part of your h's life and also having your character maligned?

I couldn't. I'd walk away now. No drama. Just say you've had enough of the unfounded bitterness.

It's time to preserve yourself and your happiness. Please put yourself first. You didn't have children to keep these women happy. It's really beyond the pale. You matter. Your life matters. You must do what makes you happy or you will end up as bitter as his dds but for very real reasons.

OP, it’s interesting that instead of choosing to tell his daughters “You need to acknowledge that OP is a permanent part of my life. We’ve been married for 25 years, we did not have an affair, and you need to come to terms with that. I would like her to attend your wedding with me. “. …. He simply chose not to go to the wedding. He’s a huge avoider. And/or, he knows that it’s hopeless to try and change his daughters opinions and behaviors.

I don’t think couples counseling is a bad thing, and I don’t think his suggesting it is a cop out. Not if he’s serious about learning from it and tries to change. Make sure you have your own individual counselor, though. Because even in couples counseling, you may be pressured to accept things that aren’t respectful to you, to keep the peace. Some counseling is deep and causes lasting improvements and creates great understanding. Other times, depending on the therapist, it’s slapping a Band-Aid on the situation. There are skilled and unskilled counselors. If it feels like it’s going badly and you’re just being pressured to shut up because you’re the squeaky wheel, it’s not good counseling.

At the end of the day, it’s about the sort of life you want to lead, and what compromises you’re willing to accept. I personally could not accept a situation where my husband spent a lot of time with family members who hated me and excluded me. I would feel lonely and sad, during these times when I knew he was off-limits, and I was not welcome to reach out for him if I had an emergency or needed him. Knowing he didn’t stand up for me. I simply wouldn’t feel comfortable with it. Other people on this board seem to have made that trade off and are ok with it. It is up to you. It takes time for change to happen, just keep that in mind. And there is usually great resistance for some time, until the person realizes that YOU have changed and no longer be handled so easily.

There are a lot of different opinions about weddings on here. Some people feel that it’s the brides day, and it should be custom tailored to her exact preferences and she should not be forced to have anyone that she dislikes or who is not in her close circle attend. That’s one view. The daughters obviously don’t consider you family. But let’s turn it around. Let’s look 25 years into the future. Your stepdaughters have now each been married to the same partners for 25 years. And your husband is hosting a holiday gathering at his home. (For the sake of a theoretical argument, let’s leave you out of it). But he only invites your stepdaughters, not their spouses. Because, he doesnt consider them family!! Would people think that was rude? I sure would. Would the stepdaughters complain about it? Would they refuse to come, if their husbands were not invited? I’m guessing that’s what would happen!

I'd say him not going to the wedding is huge and it's taking quite a stand to show how important you are to him.

These situations aren't easy to deal with. I think you should give therapy a chance.

Starting again at 60 isn't easy. You don't have any children and loneliness is hard. If you still love him try it.

These situations are rarely 100% any one person's fault. Things should have been done different way back then, by both of you, but that ship has sailed.

Hmm, if his daughters weren't spiteful enough to not invite their father's wife of many years, to an occasion where they would only need to tolerate her presence, then no one would be made to choose anyone over anyone else. I'm not up for victim blaming OP here when she's been treated so poorly. Husband should have dealt with this like an adult years ago, so don't get sad that he's feeling the consequences of his actions now.

It will be if he sticks to it. As a cynic I wouldn't be surprised if he crumbles closer to the time, or if he is hoping the daughters will give in to help him out. Therapy would be a worthwhile option, I agree.

I think that this isn't a one-off decision. DH might stick to his promise, he might backtrack totally, he might backtrack slightly, there might be some reconciliation with the DD (unlikely, but you never know)... All sorts of scenario.
I don't see that there is a rush to come to a conclusion. Go along with the therapy (DH pays). Start to become more independent - find those friends you lost along the way, get financially secure, check your legal position (e.g. regarding the house - ?joint tenancy?), etc.

You can give DH the benefit of the doubt for now, but with the knowledge that you can change your mind and walk away at any time because you are in a strong position. This isn't a one-off decision.

OP, what an absolute horror show.
You poor poor woman.

Definitely some counselling for you because it is frankly unbelievable that you have spent 25 years involved and paying for such a shit show.

Whats really sad is that you think that weak, spineless snake of a husband is a good man.
He most certainly is not.
He is a selfish waster who has always put himself first.
That you think he cares about you is beyond sad.

No doubt hd is thinking of himself with his declaration that he isn't going to the weddings.
I wouldn't believe a word out of that liars mouth.
You are being played AGAIN.

Divorce and get every penny you can.
You are only 60, so much more living to be done.
How can you stomach to look at such a weasel.🤢

I've relented and told him if he wants to go to the wedding then go. Cannot be bothered anymore with the tension. He looked so relieved.

I think I'm done. This is not what I want my life to look like and living with such divisions for the rest of my life is not what I'm prepared to do.

Thank you to everyone for their advice and views, it's been very helpful.

@StormingNorman I found your views insightful as I'm guessing you're speaking from the perspective of a daughter or ex-wife of a daughter in similar circumstances. While your Venn diagram example looks good in theory it's just too extreme for me. When you start doing the whole excluding people stance then it can spread. I can't imagine a scenario where I'd invite someone but exclude their spouse.

Who brought that ultimatum to the table…doesn’t sound like it was the OP to me! People should to be better behaved, it’s that simple.

@atacrossroadstoday I'm sorry you've been exposed to this unrelenting spite from your h's dds.

Does your h know you feel so resigned and are preparing to walk away now?

I can't see how he doesn't know. I'd guess he's hedging his bets that this will blow over but it won't.

It feels like the DDs have won but not sure what prize they think they have

Now is the time to get your own therapy. See if he follows through on organising the couple's counselling or if he thinks it has all settled down - or you have gone back to not expressing your needs.

So he'll find himself divorced after all this time?

I think you should go a long holiday, or a stay in an Air B and B crossing over before and after the wedding.

Take time to think and consider getting some counselling.

I don’t blame you for walking away. It you had been married for a couple of years maybe it would be acceptable but you have been in their lives for 25 years. Things will never get better.

OP, my friend was in a similar situation ish...but not as bad as your situation.

Years of being politely tolerated by his two daughters.
Her retirement coincided with one daughter returning to work and looking for expensive childcare for the first grandchild.

She asked dad, only, to do 3 days a week.
My friend said it was his choice but it had absolutely nothing to do with her. She had other plans for her retirement from teaching which did not involve ANY childcare.

Her husband presumed she would relent and be around the house with him.
He was wrong.

She easily made plans to be busy on those days, lunch, tennis, golf, visiting family and friends, going for short visits away.

Within a couple of weeks he was very upset, hated the commitment and told his daughter.
It was reduced to 2 days.

My friend then decided to do the Camino with friends and committed to doing overnight training walks on those days.

Her husband was very pissed off, because she was barely there.
He became short with her and cranky.

Things came to a head and she decided to go to Australia for an extended holiday and to give them both space as she felt she was perhaps done.

Australia was a great holiday and she told him she was moving in with a widowed friend.
Finally the penny dropped.
She returned after Christmas, and he was no longer minding his grandchild.
She still went to stay with her friend, but after months of him making a sincere effort they were back together.

She did the Camino with her friends in the May.
Her biggest regret is she tolerated his children for so long.
She certainly wouldn't do it again.

His daughter has warmed up considerably as it was made finally clear to her that she would only see her father infrequently at her house if she didn't.

They now take lots of trips together but she also is very very conscious of having her own friends and interests during her retirement.
She encourages her husband to see his children alone, she really has no interest anymore.
She has no interest in becoming even politely invested in his grandchildren.

She considers the whole episode a blessing.
She showed her steel and he knows that she was very prepared to divorce.

In your place OP, I would be making concerted efforts to reconnect with friends.
Plan how you want your life to look.
Organise your finances.
Get legal advice.
Make no further effort whatsoever with his children.
Their behaviour is disgraceful and yes you need to properly own that you have tolerated completely unreasonable behaviour.
Finances are key, so you need to look at splitting them.
Alternative housing, how will that work?

This is an awful weasel of a man.
You deserve so much better.

Oh, one more thing that she has decided was that her considerable nest egg is going to her nieces and nephews in its entirety.
Apparently through excellent retirement planning she is now very well set up and recently gifted her niece and nephew 10k each which her husband let slip to his daughters.
Their was genuine surprise that they have not been included in her retirement largesse.
Delusional or what?

Well that prize will be having to divide and work out their elderly dads care between them when the time comes.

Your friend sounds AMAZING Good for her. Her stepdaughter............what a fucking user.