Should DH say something or just suck it up?

[Laurdo]

My DH and I are at a bit of a loss of what to do regarding some concerns we have about my 5yo DSD when she's at her mums.

Custody arrangements is 50/50 however we have her slightly more as we have her every Sunday for football training and mum drops her midweek day quite alot.

There have been concerns about DSDs wellbeing at her mum's for some time now. Nothing major but DH keeps a note of things just in case he ever needs it. Whenever we pick her up after a week at her mums she's shattered, dark rings round her eyes. We've had to cut matts out of her hair. She's been sent to nursery in dirty underwear and in pyjamas before. As she's gotten older she's able to tell us things. We never ask but she's openly told us that mum lets her stay up watching YouTube on the laptop in bed, she never gets a bath at mums, mum never brushes her hair. Not ideal but not having a bath isn't going to kill her. She's missed a lot of football training sessions when she's spent the night before at mums because she's simply too tired so it is starting to affect her hobbies and with her starting school in August we're worried it will affect her school work.

She gets a bad cough in the winter months and can be up all night coughing. She also has eczema. DH took her to the doctor and they said it could be asthma. She was prescribed inhalers and also given cream for her eczema. DSD mum binned the inhalers and apparently called the doctor to say DSD didn't have a cough at all. We were given more inhalers from the doctor which this time we just kept at ours. We got duplicate eczema creams so she had her own but she doesn't use it and DSDs eczema would be worse when she returned from her mum's. My DH has tried to speak to her about it a few times but nothing changes. My DH had requested a paediatric appointment where both parents could attend. They only sent the appointment letter to mum and she took DSD and only told DH afterwards. What she told DH was not what DSD told us. (I know she's 5 and we should take everything with a pinch of salt but she says things that were obviously wording from the doctor) Thankfully DH received a letter in the post regarding a further appointment for August, against it said the opposite of what mum had told DH and confirmed what DSD had told us. So at least that aspect of her care will hopefully be resolved come August.

DH went to collect her on Sunday. He messaged his ex to ask if he could pick her up a bit earlier and she said it shouldn't be a problem but she was out so to call 16yo DSS. DSD was out playing in the street when DH went to collect her at 3pm. Her clothes were stinking of smoke and she said she'd had nothing to eat all day and was starving.

Her mum seems to be out a lot. She doesn't work but is doing a course at college which is the same time as DSDs nursery hours. Of course the 16yo is old enough to look after his sister but he's left to babysit a lot and will just give her cereal or snacks when she's hungry. He can barely look after himself and it's been a struggle to try and prepare him for adult life and leaving school in the summer. I certainly wouldn't leave him to watch her any more than an hour or expect him to sort her meals.

My question is.... What do we do? Mum is high conflict and has narcissistic personality traits. My DH feels like he's stepping into a wasps nest whenever he needs to discuss something with her.

Contact is minimal and restricted to absolutely necessary only. We'd like to improve things for DSD if possible before she starts school and ASAP really as it's horrible knowing she's not being cared for properly.

We'd like to look at the possibility of having DSD with us more often as we feel she's really thriving and happy at our house and we offer much more stability. DH isn't sure how to approach this as she's likely to kick off if she feels her parenting is being questioned in any way. Even if having her DD suited her she'd say no just to spite DH. I'm not sure whether they should do mediation again. The last time she was very volatile and shouted over the top of DH. The mediator wasn't great and intervening.

So what do we do? Do we risk bringing it up with her and the potential backlash from it or do we just suck it up and be grateful that at least DSD has a roof over her head and is fed at her mum's?

OP

Yes he should involve Social services.

You'll be told on this thread that he just needs to pay mum more money as it's all his fault as NRP and of course yours as stepwitch...

i agree with the PP.
yes I think your DH should involve SS. And offer to have her more.

I would involve social services and I would be looking at full-time care with her just visiting her mum. I don't know how your husband can live with himself knowing how she is suffering.

You forgot to tell me I was too involved and need to take a step back.

How would we prove to social services that our concerns are legit? SS16 would likely not dob his own mum in and how seriously would they take what a 5yo says? Sometimes she'll tell us things then when we ask for more information she clams up. You can tell she knows what's happening isn't right but she doesn't want to get her mum in trouble.

DH has noted in a diary the times he's gone to collect DSD and mum hasn't been home. He also has the texts from her saying she's not home. But DSS is 16 so surely they would still class him as a responsible adult.

My parents foster so have some experience working with SS and it seem the bar for what's ok is pretty low.

It is about the child's health, welfare and safety. Informing social services is one option. Another route would be to use the family courts to apply for residence.

Ta da!
Of course the only person mentioned here negatively is him .....

Contact SS so the concerns are logged with them, even if they don’t act on them.

Honestly we are both demented with it. It's been gradually getting worse. At first it was just lazy parenting and lack of hygiene but the idea of her playing out on the street at 5 and not eating all day has really upset both of us. After finding this out we definitely want to do something but just aren't sure of the best way to go about it.

I dont think you are wrong to contact SS, but your report is not straightforward and objective. YOu need to give a clear objective account, and not muddy the waters with things like shes "shattered" or has "dark rings around her eyses"

and dirty underwear? How dirty? Photo needed - and a photo from when she arrived, not when she was collected. And went to nursery in pjamas? What pjamas? photo needed, many pjamas would be totally adquate nursery wear.

narcisstic traits? leave that out completely ( unless you are qualified to judge and have examined her under medical conditions)

And if she coughs at yours but not her mums house, is it an allergy from something you have that her mum doesn't?

I am not saying dont report it, just saying clean up your report, so it is factual only, other wise you are just ging to get into long drawn out pointless arguments. Some of this OP does not put you in a good light, and will do you no favours at all if you speak to SS like this

She is being neglected. Get social services involved.
Poor child x

Of course our personal opinions of her would be left out in any report as they were when DH did mediation and we'd put forward the facts only. The thing is a lot of our information is coming from a 5yo and a teen so quite hard to prove. We have taken photos of things including before and after photos of DSDs eczema and DH documents things as well.

Her brother told us she does cough at mums and nursery have mentioned it also. DSD has told us she coughs at mums too. DH has picked her up from mums and she's been coughing walking out her mum's house.

If you take it back to court to change CAO to ask for more care you could ask for the "right of first refusal" so that your DH has to be offered to care for DSD prior to childcare being used and I wonder if you could stipulate that includes DSS taking care of her too?

What would happen if DH asked DSS to let him know when he is babysitting for more than a couple of hours so they could come over a to visit and be fed?

Yes this could be an idea. I'll suggest this to him. He was planning to speak to DSS about the situation but in a way that doesn't put him in a position or make it sound like he's criticising his childcare.

Kids are off school this week. We're both working and have arranged suitable childcare for DSD. She's at my mum's today (currently on a shopping trip apparently and probably getting spoiled). DH spoke to DSS last night about his chores and some jobs to do today as he's trying to earn some money. DSS asked what was happening with DSD. He said she would be at my mum's. DSS said he would have looked after her. DH said it wasn't his responsibility to do that and it's his holiday off school too so it wouldn't be fair to expect him to babysit. He was complaining yesterday that he'd done nothing the first week of the holidays but wanted to make plans this week.

This convo could lead nicely onto "if you're ever watching DSD for more than a couple of hours let me know and I can come and bring you both here."

I wouldn't be surprised if nursery aren't already monitoring the concerns as a minimum and may well have reported it.

I would raise your safeguarding concerns with them first, explaining that you're wanting to go to social services but wanted to see how they feel first.

This kind of neglect- and that's what it is, neglect- is incredibly difficult for social services to evidence and act upon however, so don't be too disheartened if it doesn't meet their thresholds for involvement. It's really important however, that you follow up on your concerns otherwise if something goes badly wrong they can hold you as much to blame for not taking action.

Next steps are too varied to comment upon until after you know the positions of nursery and social services.

That's a good shout actually. I'll get DH to speak to the nursery after the holidays.

That's my worry about involving SS. It's neglect but not obvious neglect like she's eating out a neighbours bin or being left home alone. Involving SS and it going nowhere will just stir the wasps nest and we'd expect some sort of retaliation from his ex. Poor DSD would be caught in the middle of it all.

@Laurdo yes, unfortunately it is likely there will be backlash. However, it is neglect, it is affecting her, there are hygiene issues, not eating, safety concerns- and that's only that you're aware of. There could well be more that you aren't aware of as yet.

Yeah you're right. I don't think there's any way to avoid some sort of conflict. Something has to be done.

I think I'll suggest DH speaks to her first of all about allowing him first refusal if she's going to be out and see how that lands. It could be framed as giving DSS a bit more freedom rather than a direct criticism of her parenting. If she goes for it he could maybe push further and ask if it would suit her better to change up the current arrangement? I think it needs to be sold as helping her out and benefitting her lifestyle rather than an attempt to rescue DSD from her shit parenting.

If she's resistant to discuss anything we'll go down the route of speaking to the nursery then potentially involving SS. It would be good to establish what the nursery have observed and hopefully their records would back up our case.

Your DH can enthuse about his ex attending college and that he can appreciate it's a lot to take on so he's only too happy to help by have DSD more type of angle?

Is your DH the boys dad as well?

Yes he is.

I recently had the same thing but with my own kids… I, plus the school reported my ex to ss for the things you are describing. They did investigate and went as far as a child protection plan, and basically he now has a plan that says what he needs to do for the Kids. Like keep his house clean and tidy to a certain standard. Get them to school on time. It seems to have made a difference so far, but not massively. Ss are Involved but he still sends them to me not having had breakfast and they’re all hungry 🙄. It’s a difficult one but I think you are doing all the right things really.

Also forgot about to add. He’s a narcissist and definitely did not take the whole thing well! But needs must

@Laurdo I would genuinely start the ball rolling at least with nursery straight away though as well as talking to her even if not Social services yet.

Honestly, until you're in the system, you wouldn't believe the delays these things are affected by!

If you don't inform SS then you are also failing her. Imagine if she is injured and you haven't shared that she is being neglected.

You don't have to prove a case of neglect, you just pass what you know onto SS and they go from there.

Don't worry, soon someone will suggest that the whole situation is the OP's fault.