DSS's mum blocking school choice - how best to support

[Steppen]

DSS has always been a very bright boy. His mum has insists the very rough secondary modern he attends is fine for him. DSS has been beaten up several times for being 'too clever for his own good'. He now avoids speaking in class as much as he can. He has no friends and is physically quite a small boy. We asked DSS if he wanted to consider moving schools for 6th form and he agreed he wanted to look. He has passed the entrance exams for 2 very academic may selective private schools and assuming he gets 7s in his GCSEs he will have secured a place at both schools. His mum is completely against him switching schools and thinks "a bright child will do well anywhere". We've told DSS the decision is entirely his but I can see how much pressure he is feeling and is likely to stay where he is just to please his mum. How hard would you try to show him how much of a chance this is for him?

I think his dad should have an open conversation with him - I’d apologise for not fighting harder to find a suitable secondary school but want to get it right for this next stage.
Discuss each school - the A-level options, if these options will be suitable for the next stage (university/work/apprenticeship), travel, extra curricular things on offer, what the school culture is like at A-level (as could be different to lower school) and see what his worries are.
I would talk about the worries his mum has - I think she doesn’t want him ‘changing’ and looking down on her if he goes to private school or possibly is too successful in life, she might think he’ll look down on her. Don’t dismiss these fears as he will have absorbed these for years.

It seems to be that it is expecting too much to ask DSS to simply tell his mother that he wants to change schools so I would suggest you apply to the Family Court for a specific issue order and let the court make the decision. It will be interesting to see his mother make the argument that he should stay in a school where he has been bullied fand beaten up for being too clever to the point where he is too frightened to speak up in class. DSS will also have his views taken into account. www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-c100-application-under-the-children-act-1989-for-a-child-arrangements-prohibited-steps-specific-issue-section-8-order-or-to-vary-or-discharge

He's 16. He can discuss schooling and choose his college independently.

They all choose which 6th form or college they go to whatever their family set up.

You and Dh have offered him an alternative independent education should he wish to pursue that option.

My concern is more that he'll make the choice he thinks his mum wants to him to make rather than what he wants. And I'd feel that way about any child making the decision on that basis.

A judge would also view a mum sending a solicitors letter instructing a parent with equal PR never to discuss schools with them as obstructive.

Therefore they wouldn't just view the father at fault for doing it without discussion.

He's basically done what she asked!

I think you need to be blunter with DSS now that he’s at an age where he can have meaningful input into what he wants for himself in the future. If he still decides he’d prefer not to upset his mum then at least he can look back and know that dad did at least try and advocate for him as opposed to taking the path of least resistance.

DSS makes a choice

Neither parent is acting well in this situation. DM for not recognising current school is not great for DS and not discussing with his DF
DF for not discussing with DM and entering him for entrance exams to private schools which he knows DM does not agree with.

Both are putting the child in a difficult position where he knows he will piss off one parent. He does what he wants and goes to private school and hurts his Mum. Stays where he is and does not do as well as he could and hurts his Dad.

Seriously both sets of parents need to stop playing emotional ping pong with this boy.

And it is a genuine fear that attending private school can turn some kids into little arrogant gits who look down on those who don't, so I would not dismiss mums fears quite so lightly. Also this will be fed even further if he ends up staying the week with DF and only seeing DM at weekends

If he's being bullied and beaten up, and is afraid to speak in class, I'm sorry, but I don't agree with a lot of the posters. Of course he should be encouraged to move. Why should he put up with that to make one of his parents happy, and at 16?
Is there an open day at the schools or something to show him what it would be like? That might help him decide.

She sounds horrible and I can see that you want the best for your husband child. You know that he has the ability to do well in school if he could get away from the bullies and a poor school.

I think that you and your husband need to have a chat with her when her child is not their.
Ask her is it more important that X is bullied, called names and stays in a rough school to suit her?

My feeling is that she worried about what her neighbours and friends think if let's him go to a better school.
I know people like her who may not have been good in school. Had parents with poor education and had no interest in their own kids education. Then she may have grown up in that area and gone to a poor school like her son and does not realise the benefit of a different/better or so called posh school.

Ask her has she any friends whose kids have left that school? Ask her what are they doing now? Are they on the dole, have a few kids with a few different father's or are they in jobs, doing apprenticeship or in university?

Your husband needs to tell her to grow up and stand up to her. He needs to tell her that he is not going to sit by when their son is being bullied in a rough school. That he wants him to change schools to get away from the bullies and to have more subject choices and better teachers.

Tell her he did what she wanted a few years ago but he is no longer putting up with her calling the shoots. Tell her that her son wants to change schools to a better one.
She can let this happen and not be running down the private/grammar school because she does not want him going their.
If she does not do this he has no other choice but to go to court and tell the judge what she is doing and how it's impacting on her son's education.

You could say to her also that you and X ( your husband) have always been fair about child maintenance but you feel that she is getting a bit much so you might look into this also.

My feeling is that when she realises that you going to give her less money and bring her to court she might see things differently.

DH would never mess about with child or spousal maintenance as a means to force her hand.

It's the ping pong issue a pp mentioned that worries me. A conversation between the parents simply isn't going to happen. It's really how we react to DSS.

He's been on open days and felt quite intrigued but also very intimidated. He has little confidence and I think he was quite overwhelmed with the confidence of the boys he met. I do think his biggest worry is about becoming someone his mother doesn't approve of. How to approach that with him is so delicate.

I'm pretty sure at 16yo he can decide where he lives & also 6th form.

Is there a compromise? Maybe one of the grammar schools or a decent 6th form college?

I feel sorry for him being stuck at his current school being bullied. Does he need tuition to get the grades he is capable of?

I don't know why you are getting a hard time. Clearly his Dad should have a say & you sound like you want to support him.

This.

Though it's ridiculous a 16 year old isn't being listened to.

Does his mum disagree on principle with grammar and private education as not the real world and therefore not best for her son who will get an unrealistic and very privileged view of life being segregated from average academic/income kids?

It’s awful that the boy has been beaten up, and I wouldn’t want that for my child, but if that’s her view there is some truth to it. And it sounds like he’s doing well academically despite the environment, so her point that a bright child will do well anywhere also has some truth to it.

Anyway I’d take that as a starting point, to acknowledge her point of view and not rubbish her as a bad parent, whether talking to the boy or to her. You can still put your points about how these other schools would be a good option and open up new opportunities.

I'm a really involved and supportive parent but my dc decided for themselves where they went for sixth form. One of them is in year eleven so is deciding now pretty much. I don't know anyone at all who decided for their child where they were going to go.

My dd looked at the courses and the exam results and the university data. She wanted to know what topics they st for history and which books for English. And the transport and which friends were going. Oh, and extra-curricular stuff.

Since DSS has already survived 5 years at this challenging school, he is never, ever going to be out of touch with the real world, whatever happens next! It’s certainly true that some people who have only experienced private education live in a bubble of privilege, but that is simply not going to be an issue for this boy, because he already has that life experience. Whether he wants to move schools or will find it easy to settle or will flourish in a new school is a more difficult question. I think a lot depends on whether he makes a good friend or finds a subject or teacher that excites his mind at the new school, and of course that’s something that it’s impossible to be sure about in advance. Does he have any hobbies or activities that might help him make friends in the new school? Does he already know anyone at either of them, or do you, who could help you get a feel for what they are like?

But that's not the point here. The 16 yo's primary concern is not upsetting his mother, who is putting considerable pressure on him not to change school, despite what he might want to do.

The OP is seeking advice on how to navigate this and advocate for him, so your post isn't remotely helpful to her.

The OP is seeking advice on how to navigate this and advocate for him, so your post isn't remotely helpful to her

For fucks sake, this is a talk forum. It's not up to you what people post. This constant policing of threads is outrageous.

It's helpful to know what others do at 16

I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with this. Your DSS is bullied and scared at his current school so you've found him a better alternative and are willing to pay for it. I'm sure your DSS will jump at the chance. Hopefully guilt about his Mum's crappy attitude, encouraging him to stay in a school where he's been physically assaulted, won't stop him from taking you up on it.

It's helpful to know what others do at 16
I agree and I also think it helps to realise that most year elevens are putting a lot of input into to this themselves. It's really the first time they are making a big decision about their own lives rather than being steered by their parents. It may help the DSS if his own friends are looking at different options to realise he should be having a large input into the decision.

They grow up a lot in these few years.

Something to bear in mind is that if he is really able then his university prospects from the current school could be better - contextual offers and so on - especially if his GCSEs don't represent his ability.

I teach sixth form and it takes internal confidence for a student to successfully switch schools at 16. Not great if you've got a parent against the switch.

I actually think your focus should be on where he'll go at 18. Work back from that. That's the true escape point where your money will be useful.

16 year olds can decide where they want to go. What's the worst that could happen? His mum will be angry for a bit but so what. My DD swapped schools for sixth forms and my DH massively disagreed, it caused huge rows but of course he got over it in the end (sort of - he still brings it up years later even though DD was long ago proved right!). However remember that if he is currently at a poorly performing school, that could actually advantage him in uni applications. Check his current schools A level performance carefully. Many of the poorly behaved kids don't stay for sixth form so it could be a much more positive experience than it has been so far. But the school does need to know how to achieve high grades. If they never get an A in a particular subject, it's unlikely he will. That was why my DD changed schools.

This illustrates why the grammar school system is so poor and should be ended. Dss mum has a right to be against the private school system which also destructive and divisive. For university entrance coming from a disadvantaged school can be a bonus

Agree 100%.

PPs saying it should have been discussed with mother beforehand, but she refused. So what then? Just leave this child to get bullied and physically assaulted because the mothers’ wishes trump the child’s welfare?

This situation clearly isn’t amicable. The child should be encouraged to go where he will do best academically.

I am a Rottweiler in these situations and I acknowledge that I should be more conciliatory sometimes. But here, where the main question is ‘will dss harm himself further in order to placate the (controlling) mother?’ I really would go in hard. Write to her (no judge would enforce her demand that you don’t discuss schooling!) laying out the situation and making it clear that you consider that her actions have thus far been neglectful of dss’s happiness and that you are sure a court would agree . That you consider, and believe the court will agree, that any attempt to prevent him from choosing the school he clearly wants and which will free him from 5 years of physical and psychological bullying would be emotionally abusive. That you wil go to court to demonstrate the 5 years of historic neglect/ emotional abuse. That the only outcome which will prevent this is full-throated approval of Dss’s choice. That if she mentions this correspondence to dss and involves him in it, you will consider that part and parcel of the ongoing emotional abuse and start proceedings immediately.

I meant ‘I am a Rottweiler in situations where I can see that the other person is manipulative or abusive.’