School Uniform

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Hi my DH pays the CMS amount to his ex for the DSC, he is of the understanding that this is it. That's all he has to pay. Anything else extra is on top, so he pays for half their music lessons and the school trips. I'm asking because his ex has asked him for half the school uniform money for the last few years. He paid half when the eldest went up to secondary school but he said at the time this was a one off and he couldn't do it every year. Anyway he's received a stream of angry messages about it this year and a demand for money. Is he right? The CMS is it and uniform costs are factored into their calculation? Is there anywhere that tells you officially how they've worked it out?

@WinterMusings She walked out on him. She knew the deal.

@RoseAndRose As much as the mums disposable income is none if anyone's business - neither is the fathers.

Just become someone earns more doesn't mean they can afford to pay more.

Right, so she parents far more than he does.
As you haven't given figures, ages of children or number of children, I'll use mine.
So, she does every morning before school, saving £15 per child breakfast club. 2 kids. £150 a week. Saves after school club. £25 x 2 x 5 = £250. So, her contribution (simply due to the more parenting she provides) not even including every night is £400 per week. Have you factored that in?

We’ve always paid CMS plus half of school uniform, childcare when both parents are working and extra curricular activities. It just seems like the decent thing to do.

Is he right?

I don't think he is, no. And I would be seriously questioning my own relationship with a man who would rather not pay for his kids school uniform.

She walked out on him. She knew the deal.

That a really vile thing to say. Really vile.

That's a bit presumptuous @arethereanyleftatall? I have 2 kids being covered by CMS. I also work full time but none are in paid childcare of any form.

Ok, so she walked out on him. What do you mean by 'she knew the deal'?

but you ignored all the pertinent points & just focussed on who left who?

she's still providing all the things I listed...

would YOU really & honestly think what he pays is sufficient if YOU became the one providing a home for them, all the other expenses I listed?

The op isn't providing any detail whatsoever to work out if it's fair. She's skirting around the mums contribution. As stated, I used what my own costs would be.

Also does anyone know if when you ask them to vary it based on travel costs how they work that out? Its all done using the calculator at the moment but the ex is insisting he does both journeys (pretty long) and it's a private arrangement. But he just wants the figure CMS would tell him to pay if he applied for variation.

It’s relevant when looking to see how much more than the bare legal minimum is is reasonable for a father to spend on his DC. If his circumstances mean there is no disposable money, then that’s the end of it.

But if he does, then it becomes his moral choice about what sort of father he is.

She will have no need for breakfast clubs

Does he buy half of the clothes they wear outside of school? The ones they wear "every other weekend and half the holidays"? Or does she? Does he buy 1/5 of the uniform that they wear after the overnight with him? Or does she?

CMS is calculated to take account that he is resident parent for 4/14 nights and she is for 10/14. But if he's paying for no clothes for those 4/14 nights that's unfair. Paying for half the uniform costs would be a reasonable adjustment to account for that.

With regard to travel, op, who moved away from who?
My ex does all the travel, as he was the one who moved away. We haven't ever discussed it because it's obvious. He also absolutely pays half of everything I ask for, plus a generous maintenance payment (double the calculator) because he's not an arsehole.

There's no point replying to these threads unless we know what he's paying.

People ALWAYS say it's the bare minimum to raise a child on but that's not the case.

It's the bare minimum HE is required to pay and depending on his income that could be more than enough or not much at all. There's no evidence here that what he's paying is barely anything. Until we know what he's paying its impossible to say whether it's enough to cover half of raising the child or not. He could be paying £800 a month or £50 a month. We don't know.

So my answer OP is that technically there is no list to say what maintenance should cover. But whether I think it's fair he does cover it or not depends entirely on what he's paying in maintenance.

She wasn't stupid. She knew when she left him she would lose access to his income other than what he paid. That is all I meant. I assure you she is a smart woman who is actually usually very pleasant. She is not poor. And she is very capable of more and better paid work but has admitted she sees no need to.

Good thoughts. Thank you. Yes he does. He takes them shopping regularly for clothes to "wear at ours" which they then move between homes because frankly otherwise its a waste of money and a bit mean to insist they stay at one home not the other. I took them out last week and treated them to some summery clothes myself but I'm not paying for uniform out of my wages.

Yep, that seems about right to me too.

beyond that I think it depends on the disposable income of the NRP & how much they can afford/want to give their children the same standard of living they'd have if they all still lived together. Obviously it's more expensive not living together, but as long as the DC are considered when it comes to disposable income then that's fair.

She did. But to be clear here I am not suggesting he stops this or reduces the maintenance to take into account this extra travel, it's just to get a baseline figure of what CMS say he should pay.

But she did lose access to his income- she's not asking for money for her social life is she? Or is she asking for him to pay more than half the uniform?

So my answer OP is that technically there is no list to say what maintenance should cover. But whether I think it's fair he does cover it or not depends entirely on what he's paying in maintenance. thank you this is helpful. It would just be handy to see if the government have remembered to include uniform costs in the maintenance or not.

How much would it cost you guys to take on the kids full time? Is it more or less than 50% of cms.

The government hasn't actually worked out how much it costs to raise a child as cms- it's a percentage of the nrp income. Not an actual calculation of how much it costs to raise a child.

Thats what I mean, is there a list somewhere of how to work out how much a child costs? I know that sounds cold but how have the CMS people worked out how much a child costs?

The costs for a RP are constant and way more than the calculator asks from the NRP. It's a daily, constant, £5 to the school for mufti day, £15 for Sophie's birthday, £5 contribution to ballet teachers present, I could go on and on. It's something every day, and all falls on the RP.