Holiday issues/passport

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

What do you all do about passport handovers for holidays? Is it the norm to have it with the travelling parent a little before the holiday?
DP would like DSDs passport so we have it for the travel agent who wants it scanning. We would also like it so we know it is in a safe place ready to travel. This is our first abroad holiday. We've only done UK holidays previously due to mums behaviour and ability to ruin absolutely everything because she can (long story). However this time my dad is treating us all to the holiday and isn't concerned at losing money (where as we really would be). So we are obviously worried that she will ruin the family holiday due to her previous form.
Mum is refusing to hand the passport over until the night before holiday (when she says DP can collect dsd) She has just returned from holiday, so there is no genuine reason to refuse it. She isn't travelling anywhere. Both parents paid half towards the cost of the passport. We now travel in 5 weeks.
I have suggested to DP that instead of asking for the passport, that we ask to collect dsd at a minimum the morning before we travel (so it has time to get to court before we fly if she refuses). Preferably the day before that though, but it is unlikely she will agree... I just can't see her acquiescing on the passport. She probably won't on the handover date and time either, but maybe she will feel she has "won" on the passport front so won't care as much? I don't know. I can't work out how her mind works. What would a fair proposal be?

in the passport conversation tonight DP has also learned that DSD is going to return from holiday with us at 4am (if not delayed!!!) and then fly back out later the same day to THE EXACT SAME DESTINATION! Mum has gone and booked a holiday last week without any discussion. DP knew she wanted to book another holiday but he didn't think she would do something like that!
I mean, why would you even do that?! It is stupid! If we get delayed then that is her holiday ruined, and the added stress on us at how she will punish us all if the flight was delayed (because she will). Also, poor DSD is doing a 4 hour flight home followed by a 4 hour flight back to the same bloody Airport in the same day, with next to no sleep (she is 5!). Just why?!!!

Before the usual crap begins from those who are not step parents, no I wasn't the OW. There was no OW ever. 3 month dating relationship. She wanted a child, was hoping DP would walk, he wouldn't. So now she makes coparenting as difficult as possible. Court orders mean nothing to her. She has breached multiple times, she doesn't care.

So what do you all do with holidays, passports, drop off dates/times etc? And did it ever get easier with regards to this kind of thing? DP has 50/50 holidays and we really would like to do an abroad holiday each year. But if we are paying I'm not sure i can cope with this stress each time of not knowing if she will keep to the order.

Have you checked if you need any other paperwork that she needs to sign. Dh recently took our dd abroad and because she was travelling with one parent I was told by a friend id need to sign a form saying i gave permission for her travel with her dad, the dates and where they're staying and my contact details. I thought it sounded a bit OTT because she shares her dads surname and we're together but friend said that this form has been asked for more than her husbands covid vaccine stuff when he's been to that country with his kids.

I'd double check on the government website you're going to just in case you might need some kind of authorisation form for her to sign

I hope she doesn't try to ruin the holiday and that you all get to have a lovely holiday.

Sorry but not the MN ethos as ALL mothers are saints and all divorced fathers are shit ... but FUUUUUUCK bloody selfish mothers who pull this shit. HOW is any of this in the child's best interest ?

Get ther to court ASAP she has EVERY intention of screwing HER CHILDS holiday with her dad ..

If she didn't hand your SD over at the appointed time for the trip, your husband could (from your holiday) revoke his approval for her little jaunt. He might want to drop that into his next convo with her...

i had experience of this (but with permission letter to travel) and was only given it the night before I flew and I was so stressed about it (I’d given him the permission letter 6 weeks prior and he’d even taken legal guidance on it). It’s abhorrent behaviour and definitely not in the childrens best interest

I would apply asap for a specific issues order you can put it’s urgent on the application form. You are meant to go to mediation first so might need some legal guidance on whether the urgency would be a reason not to do it. Good luck

So he has applied to court. I think it is pretty unanimous that she was going to try to stop the holiday in some way. She further demonstrated this tonight when he again asked calmly and reasonably that the passport should be with him within the next week so as to get things in order for our holiday. She went on a rant and is now saying that she knows we aren't flying until the evening (we aren't we fly mid afternoon!) because if we have a late flight back we will have a late flight there. So therefore SD won't be handed over until the morning of our holiday. Wtf?!
That is absolutely not happening. We need to be at the airport for 11.50 to fly at 14.50. Our travel time is 1 hour, plus to allow for traffic. We also intend to get there by 10.30 to allow time for us to have a big brunch at a nearby pub restaurant in case there are issues at the airport due to all the travel chaos at the minute. So no, SD can not be picked up on that morning meaning a 2 hour round trip for DP!! We have too much to do with the last min packing, cats to sort out, house to sort etc. The usual! But besides it being wholly unreasonable, just no!
She is now backtracking on her holiday dates as DP has asked her to confirm the rest of the dates for the 50/50 split. She doesn't want to. So now she is saying "well I thought we were going Friday, but it might not be until the Wednesday, so assume you can't have her again until the Wednesday after". Which is the 17th August. 13 days before they return to school. And she won't let him have 2 weeks together. So I'm not sure how she proposes to split this 50/50!
It is now in the hands of the court, specific issue order made and requested 48 hour hearing. Probably won't be heard for a bit, but at least we are in the system. £232 down the drain all because she can't be an adult and put her child first.

£232 is probably the best money you will ever spend if it stops her doing this again. She clearly has no intention of letting her DD go. What a hateful woman.

Completely agree. I did SIO in 2011 as my ex was playing silly buggers about giving permission for me to take the kids on holiday (despite never previously or since having them for more than 7 nights on the trot, and for the last five years more than 4 times a year).

Not only was I given what I requested re that holiday but for subsequent ones too. That piece of mind was worth every penny. Make sure the SIO specifically mentions the passport and if possible at least when flight information must be confirmed to the other parent.

Just a thought op, if he has 50/50 could he apply for some sort of vofficially lives with' order to give him the authority to take dc on holiday without needing mum's permission?

He doesn't have 50/50. It was suggested at court last August for the enforcement hearing that if she was to breach again that they would consider his request for a shared care order (he wouldn't be able to increase the time with DSD but it would mean he was on an equal footing with her mum).
I don't think I've sighed as many times in my life as I have done the last few days. This whole situation is just ridiculous.

Who does this to their own child? I hope the court cuts down her ego.

Will never understand how a mother can be so selfish, and cruel, basically punishing her child with these games she's playing. Selfish cow

Believe me, it's pretty common

My eyes were certainly opened wide by this woman. The things I've known her do... they'd make your hairs stand on end. This is just a tiny snapshot of her quest for ultimate control of SD.

C100 is in, asked for urgent hearing. All evidence posted and emailed for good measure. I'm actually really worried at what the outcome will be. Family court have never given me any confidence in their ability to put the actual child first. So we shall see. Wouldn't be surprised if the outcome was that we have to somehow not go on holiday but also pay for her holiday in the process. Yeah, that's how much faith I have in the "system". 😔

Good luck!

@ThisMustBeMyDream keep us posted lovely. We are here.

I had this in reverse, my ex wouldn't give passport back after he took her on hols. I reported the passport lost & got an urgent appointment for new one - that may be difficult at the moment with delays, but worked for us.

In a turn up for the books DP just told me she has apologised for her rant the other night. An absolute first. She has never ever apologised for anything. Dp accepted the apology. Still no giving of passport, confirming dates or anything else though. So I am glad he has taken it to court. When she finds out he can at least say that it is just to rubber stamp any agreement between them if she does agree anything prior to finding out.

Everyone's court order differs. Does your DP not have his DD for example 2 full weeks in addition to the current CAO?

For example 1 week at Easter and last week of August? The judge can only put down on paper what is requested. I have never got to a point of breaching an CAO but there is consequences if you do!

Holidays need to be clearly stated in the CAO and the passport handover.

Urgh she's is cutting off her nose to spite her face.

I hope it all gets sorted so DD gets a lovely holiday with you.

We’ve got one exactly like this. I don’t post as I worry it’s too outing. This summer she’s spending all of her 50% up north with her family. DSC are sad they’ll miss their friends so she hauled them into the phone to ask to miss our holiday instead! She’s proposing now the summer is split 3 ways- her time, our time, kids’ time (you guessed it- at her residence obv)

DH has stopped engaging with her beyond facts/dates and adopted the US diplomatic policy of ‘trust but verify’. She’s sworn blind the school is ok with a term time absence before that they knew nothing about! So anything that crosses into to PR bits of health/education we always double check with the relevant 3rd party.

If he does any emergency application the replacement would only be delivered to mums house anyway.

Good luck. Also make sure you are being up front with her. If she's guessing your flight times going out it sounds like she doesn't fully know the flight information. Your DP needs to say here is our flight information and then request hers.

Court date came through for 11th July. Plenty of time to get it sorted. Thank goodness.

Utter madness you’ve had to go to such lengths for a holiday.

OP, out of interest. If she were to hand everything over say the day before the court date. Would they still be required to attend and the ex explain why your DP had to go to these lengths?

Given the 11th is Monday if the kid isn't with dh this weekend then I would avoid her completely. Don't give her the option of handing over at this point. Presumably he has records of all the messages etc anyway.