CMS and new business…

[Chaosandconfusion123]

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My partner is about to start a new business, something he’s always wanted to do. So, my first question is how do CMS work out his child maintenance payments?

Will they fluctuate each month depending on his income?

I’m struggling to find the answer online.

Thank you

realistic. My children have gone 13 years without support from their self employed father your reality is very different to mine and yes they have a shit father but there's nothing to suggest OP's dad or the majority of dad's are like this.

People are still making judgments based on nothing but things they’ve pulled out of thin air.

@Steelesauce
The thought was to use CMS as a basic legal minimum and then decide where to go from there but there’s little info online. We can’t afford to agree a flat rate of £x if DP is only earning £y or I would end up paying his CMS. As much as we all get on, that breaches a boundary for me.

@howtomoveforwards
I’m not being defensive, it’s just that none of you can see me rolling my eyes at the predictable cynicism.

FWIW, I think the system is fairly flawed for both RP and NRP. It’s too generic and doesn’t take individual circumstances into account enough. An impossible ask but still the need is there.

Personally, although this isn't what you asked so sorry, I'd calculate the CMS each month as if that were the yearly earnings. Like you say there is no way you should be paying any of this.

@Moochio
Thank you, I can’t really see another “fair” way of doing it that doesn’t mean either me paying it or a disproportionate amount of DP income going to his ex.

If she’s not keen on the idea then we can ask CMS to work something out. Not sure how they’d do it fairly though given the above 🤷🏻‍♀️

If you ´ask CMS to work something out’ they will calculate the payments based on the previous year’s earnings. It doesn’t matter whether or not you consider that fair. It’s a possibility. Your DP needs to ensure he has the money set aside to pay for 1 year’s worth of CM based on last year’s income. If he doesn’t and the business idea fails and the ex becomes unhappy and involves CMS then he will be in a financial mess.
If he has the money to pay 1 year’s worth of maintenance at the current level then it’s ok, ig the business doesn’t do well in the first year he won’t have to pay so much the following year.

Yes maybe for the first year while he works out what he can earn in a year at least. Is it very seasonal demand?

@PeterpiperpickedapeckofpickledPEPPAS apparently you can submit a change of circumstances…or how do CMS expect NRP to pay. As previous posters have said, some people lose their jobs hence why they set up on their own, etc.

@Moochio
not really, it will take a few months to get going though. Maybe they agree and minimal flat rate and top up if he earns more that month, IFSWIM. After the first 12 months, he can just go on the previous years earnings.

Could he offer to increase the amount of time he has the children during the period when CMS falls due to him starting up the business?

That sounds a good option, although the months he gets nothing it will be tough on you guys if he has to pay minimum still.

Sounds good but not sure how you'd explain that to the kids

@howtomoveforwards

you're so cynical

realistic. My children have gone 13 years without support from their self employed father. No end of women willing to support him with that. I know several women with self employed ex’s. None of them receive maintenance either.

Exes should never rely on the NRP payments IMO

We are living in increasingly difficult times financially. Both parents should be doing everything they can to ensure their children don’t go without. Both ‘sides’ should be able to rely on being a parenting team. The suggestion maintenance shouldn’t be relied upon just plays into the hands of those who make children women’s problem. It should be normal practise, in my opinion to insure maintenance payments against redundancy, ill health and disability. Life insurance to cover maintenance to 18 and a contribution to uni costs should also be the norm. Not expecting an ex to just suck it and see in all circumstances. Children and their needs should be taken seriously by both parents, not just the one left picking up the slack.

Yes they should be able to be a parenting team. But this means up and downs from both sides. Not relying on that money being set doesn't mean not relying on another parent.

There are just too many RPs relying on lots of CMS particularly when larger amounts are agreed in the heat of a separation and then later this changes when the NRP circumstances change or the children turn 18 and leave education. We see this on here often.

Yes both parents should contribute but if circumstances change this might mean the NRP begins to contribute more time and less money which is what I suggested. They should be a parenting team but what this looks like is bound to change over the years.

In an ideal world CMS would be a set amount that could be relied upon, but IMO in an ideal world contact should be 50/50 so parenting is equal and the kids get positive time with both parents. But we don't live in that world.

I think it's just ridiculous for people to say that the NRP in this case should continue the cms amount regardless of a change in income and shouldn't attempt to change jobs or start a business purely based on keeping that money up for X amount of years. If the aim is to start a business that will either offer more flexibility and time or hopefully eventually more money which the children can benefit from that isnt going to happen overnight and changes will have to be made in the short term.

As for working it out fairly. If you know what he is likely to earn as a minimum, I would agree that amount with the ex. Then top up if he happens to earn more.

@tomatoandherbs
unfortunately, mum doesn’t want to give up more time (which I can understand) and it wouldn’t be possible logistically really as it would mean moving schools, etc which isn’t fair on the children.

@Blendiful
Thank you, that’s a really balanced and helpful response.

@Moochio
I really don’t want to contribute but we can manage a few quid a month. I looked at the CMS calculator and the minimum is extremely low so he will hopefully be earning more than that anyway!

What is the ratio atm? Ie how frequently with you?

You can manage “a few quid a month”

how does that compare with previously?

@tomatoandherbs
every other weekend (Sat/Sun) and half the school holidays.

It is less, ex is prepared for that and happy for it being lower. She’s very comfortable financially. We’re just trying to figure out a “proposal” for how to work it all out

@tomatoandherbs
The few quid a month comment was about me…that’s what I could put in from my salary to make up the difference

OP - I think you are incredibly lucky to have such an accommodating EXW and I hope he thanks her.

Threads like this boil my p*ss to be honest -

Has she agreed - or just accepted that it is going to happen anyway-so little point in making a fuss?

It is absolutely irrelevant what she earns and that she will bankroll her EXH family for however long is never appreciated on the SM forum. Why should she pay his share of raising his children?

To be honest if he has wanted this for ages - then he should have prepared a bit better and considered how he would contribute as he starts up. Kids do not suddenly become a disposable cost that can be dumped this month - because - don't worry the other parent will pick up the slack - whilst I feed my other family.

Only on mumsnet do people think - the NRP giving more time makes the expense of the DCS go away - the trainers they have grown out of still need replacing but don't worry NRP will have them one more day per week and that makes it all balance out

The DCS are not going to benefit from the extra income for some years and the bankrolling of the EXP could go on for years - or as someone said - he becomes a dividend dickhead dad and pays the minimum. I will lay odds he will not give the DCS and the RP any "bonus" when the monies start to roll in to make up for the fact he did not contribute fairly for years.

Like I said OP, your DP is a bloody lucky man that his EXW puts the DCS first and bankrolls her EX. This is not a 1 year commitment- this will be 5 years.

Sorry to be so negative - but he is not a good Dad. This is not the same as losing your job- this is an active long planned for decision to have a minimum of 2-3 years on an income that is potentially so low that he can not afford to pay for his DCS. He has 2 women bank rolling him - maybe he has got it right!

Odd that the ex is happy with it being lower
bur absolutely no idea how much lower!
and how on earth can we help with a proposal when we have no idea re figures involved …. Both past and projected?!

Just got to cms and use that as your “proposal”

All I wanted to know was how CMS was worked out when NRP is self employed.

I don’t want to and haven’t gone into loads of details about DP, the business or the ex because it’s not relevant to my questions - I don’t have to justify anything.

@tomatoandherbs
I can assure you his ex is happy because she’s extremely comfortable financially. She knows that DP has wanted to do this for a while (while they were together) and will likely make a success of it. She also knows that he is very reliable with CMS payments. We’ve all worked hard on building a good relationship over the last decade.

I won’t be back on this thread now. A few people have offered factual replies so I’ve got what I came here for.

Thanks all!

Odd that the ex is happy with it being lower
Not all exes are money obsessed & unreasonable. My exh didn't pay me for the first four years after our split as he retrained. I was fine with this as he now has an excellent job which benefits our dc. It does not benefit me but he is my ex & the minute he became so he stopped being financially responsible for me & vice versa!
I helped him out as co parent of our dc in order to benefit our dc long term. I would have done same if we'd been together.

What struck me as odd
was to perfectly happy with a reduction in maintenance
but literally zero idea what that reduction even vaguely will entail

Not all exes are money obsessed & unreasonable

It's unreasonable to expect an ex partner to support their children?

Magda - in slightly different circumstances I have done the same for my EX for the past 2 years of the pandemic. There was no point in seeing him lose his home on top of everything else that is going on.

These threads irritate me - that people do not plan ahead.
do not get that varying payments each month is v difficult for some RPs to cope with
that extra time somehow means the payments can go down but the costs are still there for someone
the benefits are rarely seen by the DCs involved as few businesses boom in a year - hence my 3-5 yr estimate
when people start talking the minimum I can get away with- that is invariably a bad sign
the OPs DP will be supported by her - but God forbid if there was a flat rate agreed then he may have less to contribute to their family aswell- but it is OK for the EX to cover his shortfall.

The self employed NRPS in this world have a poor reputation on Mumsnet and for good reason - we all know that the business can be made to look unprofitable very easily and less pay for the DCs become the norm.

OP,s DP, like your Ex and mine are extremely lucky men who do not understand how rare our approach is, not sure they ever truly appreciate it though!

Agreed

let’s face it. The RP of children that are with her 12 nights in every fortnight, doesn’t have the option of jacking it all in to take a risk and start a new business that will result in a substantial drop in income at least on the short to medium term!