Christmas Day solution

[fretting123]

Back story .... DH has been in DS life since he was 4 and moved in with us when DS was 6. DH and I then had 2 DC relatively close together. DSs DF has been very present throughout his life (although very much a Disney dad with very lazy parenting ideas) and they have a good (albeit more like mates) relationship.

DH and my ex could NOT be more different. DH can be strict and authoritative and this was always difficult for DS, especially after spending time with his DF. DSs teenage years were typical (IMO) messy room, answering back etc. DH found this hard as did I, but my motto was 'pick your battles'.

Fast forward to last Nov (2nd lockdown). DS is now 17 and working full time. Not sure if the trigger, but he basically lost his shit, punched his TV and was in tears. Obviously I followed him to his room to see what the hell was going on, but he was too angry to talk. DH came up and DS screamed in his face 'this is all your fault'. I told DH to leave the room immediately and sat with DS till he calmed down. When he did he told me that he couldn't live her anymore, that he hates my DH and he had been wanting to say this for a long time but didn't want to upset me. He asked if I could phone my DPs (who he has a very good relationship with) and ask them if he could stay there for a bit, they agreed and said let him stay for a week then we'll talk about it. So off DS went. I was obviously distraught that evening and couldn't speak to DH about it. Unfortunately the following week, I caught Covid and was reasonably poorly with it. So the week at my DPs turned into 3.

When I could leave the house following Covid, I went to see DS and mentioned about coming back home and that things would change at home (I had talked at length with DH about the situation in this time) But my DS said he wasn't coming back.

It's now been a year. DS still at DPs house (thank fuck they are wonderful ) . I see him at every opportunity I have along with my DC and our relationship has never been better. Although I realise this is because I'm not having to pester him round the house etc. In this last year, DS has not stepped foot back in his home. Unfortunately DH works from home, I think he would have come around if this wasn't the case.

I'm completely worried about Xmas day plans. We always go to my DPs in the day ( we did last year, and DS just blanked DH and they both just bit their lips, not a great atmosphere but it was nice for the other DC ) Recently it was my DFs birthday, we all went around for a couple of hours, DS did not come out of his room due to DH being there and it was all quite upsetting for me that he choose not to (although I understand that he would have felt uncomfortable) I just don't think he would come out of his room on Xmas Day if we went around. I desperately want all my DC to be together on Xmas day but I don't see it happening. DH is of the option that DS is an adult and just needs to be grown up about it.

@Justmuddlingalong

Your DM fell out with your current DH over his parenting?

Yes, about 2 years ago. DH said something negative about DS regarding school work and DM told him to not be so negative about DS. Ended up with DH ending the convo by closing the door on her (not slamming or aggressively) DM was rightly annoyed by this. DH and DM both similar personalities, both think they are right and don't like to be told otherwise. I heard both sides of story regarding this incident, and to be fair, they both had the same account.

@Moonface123

Your son has made his choice, you can' t force him to like your husband, and your husband probably much prefers him not being there. Maybe in time the situation will improve, l would try and spend more time alone with your son, he does still need his Mum.

As DS works late afternoon into the evening, luckily I can spend every week day off I have with him (school hours) Although this has meant I don't do much around the house like I once did. DH has had to pick up more housework than he did, but I don't feel guilty for this and in some way am pleased that he does. Sometimes I feel like I want to punish DH and not do any/much housework, all a bit fucked up, but that's how I feel.

Sometimes I feel like I want to punish DH and not do any/much housework, all a bit fucked up, but that's how I feel.

Ok so why ? Do you blame him for DS leaving ? Do you think that DSS reaction was fair or do think that secretly DH is to blame ? Do you think that DS is behaving rationally ?

The thing is you can say your on the fence on this but to want to punish someone you actually have to think someone has done wrong ?

I don't quite know how to phrase my question. I have to wonder how much responsibility you take for what has happened. I'll hold my hands up to their being a lot of projection on my part in defence of my own stepdad.

You have chosen two very different dads for your children. They sound polar opposite's from everything you say. So while your husband hasn't been great to your ds, it's his personality, I feel like he was set up to fail.

My step dad was definitely set up to fail by my mum. There were an awful lot of very toxic years, which I wholeheartedly blamed my step dad for.

As an adult with my own family I can see how the poor bloke couldn't win. He should never have been put in the position he was in, and neither should me and my brother.

I love my mum, but she will never have my respect due to how our childhood played out.

My stepdad does though, it took a lot of years and there were some horrible truths to come to terms with. It's awful to realise the painful years weren't necessary and could have been prevented by my mum.

@candlelightsatdawn

Sometimes I feel like I want to punish DH and not do any/much housework, all a bit fucked up, but that's how I feel.

Ok so why ? Do you blame him for DS leaving ? Do you think that DSS reaction was fair or do think that secretly DH is to blame ? Do you think that DS is behaving rationally ?

The thing is you can say your on the fence on this but to want to punish someone you actually have to think someone has done wrong ?

Yes, I blame him for leaving as DS said 'it's all his fault' I feel DH could have done more to sort this all out (not that I know what)

I suppose I'm not really 'on the fence'. My DC will always come before my DH, but leaving DH over this was never a solution.

@lunar1

I don't quite know how to phrase my question. I have to wonder how much responsibility you take for what has happened. I'll hold my hands up to their being a lot of projection on my part in defence of my own stepdad.

You have chosen two very different dads for your children. They sound polar opposite's from everything you say. So while your husband hasn't been great to your ds, it's his personality, I feel like he was set up to fail.

My step dad was definitely set up to fail by my mum. There were an awful lot of very toxic years, which I wholeheartedly blamed my step dad for.

As an adult with my own family I can see how the poor bloke couldn't win. He should never have been put in the position he was in, and neither should me and my brother.

I love my mum, but she will never have my respect due to how our childhood played out.

My stepdad does though, it took a lot of years and there were some horrible truths to come to terms with. It's awful to realise the painful years weren't necessary and could have been prevented by my mum.

I do feel a sense of responsibility, of course I do. In hindsight I was busy with 2 small other DC and probably didn't give DS1 the attention he needed, (like was possibly when he was an only child) but surely this would be the case in any family?

I would also tell DS to make his bed, tidy up, do his homework etc. But I think hearing things like that from a parent you love is different than hearing it from someone you're not fond of. And of course, his DF never had to pester him about any of these things, ever.

Yes, I blame him for leaving as DS said 'it's all his fault' I feel DH could have done more to sort this all out (not that I know what)

Ok that's DS perspective but what's yours ? Do you think DH was unreasonable with his reactions ? If so how unreasonable?

I think a previous poster said you chose to very different men to have children to have kids with. If in his shoes do you truly think he could have won in this situation given the current parental figures in DS life ?
Or was this with the right personalities bound to happen ?

Does DS have any accountability in this at all ? Are you more like your ex than DH in parenting styles and if so did you recognise this when you got together?

I'm not saying any of this to be harsh. I'm saying that the blame is being out at one door when really I think it everyone has played a part in this dynamic.

I don't get on with my dad, and as an adult I have made choices about where I spend Christmas because of that. My mum and dad are still together and my two brothers live at home. This year will be the first Christmas I have spent with them since 2017. I think now that your DS is 17, you have to accept that he is nearly an adult (will be 18 by next Xmas? I assume so) and he will therefore decide what he wants to do for Christmas. I would issue an open invitation to yours but I wouldn't bring your DH to where your DS lives, as he currently doesn't have his own place and then his only retreat is into his room. Not sure on a long term solution, but hopefully everyone will mellow with time and distance.

It is difficult with 2 younger small children op and of course these other children were your new DPS. I think we all want to believe that doesn't make a difference but of course it does. How could it not? One child has his mother in the home ,who he is now sharing with two other children she is also mother to. The other two children have both their mother and father in the home.

Even in families where the children are all full siblings, the eldest can struggle in these circumstances. Suddenly no longer the baby and new expectations placed on him 'your the oldest, you should know better' is often said to first children, yet younger ones remain the babies at an age long past when these things are said to the eldest.
I'm wondering if your dh has been inclined to see your eldest in this light? Is he as strict with the two younger ones who are his biological children as he has been with your son, or does he make excuses for them being younger when they are well past the age he had these expectations of your son. This would not be mised by your son and the TV incident, although wrong, is a typical reaction from a teen who never feels he is is praised whatever he does, even when others in the home are.

@candlelightsatdawn

Yes, I blame him for leaving as DS said 'it's all his fault' I feel DH could have done more to sort this all out (not that I know what)

Ok that's DS perspective but what's yours ? Do you think DH was unreasonable with his reactions ? If so how unreasonable?

I think a previous poster said you chose to very different men to have children to have kids with. If in his shoes do you truly think he could have won in this situation given the current parental figures in DS life ?
Or was this with the right personalities bound to happen ?

Does DS have any accountability in this at all ? Are you more like your ex than DH in parenting styles and if so did you recognise this when you got together?

I'm not saying any of this to be harsh. I'm saying that the blame is being out at one door when really I think it everyone has played a part in this dynamic.

Agreed the blame doesn't lie with just one individual, DH could have been less strict, DS could have made more of an effort ( he was particularly defiant when asked to do things by both DH and I) and I should have realised how bad the relationship was between them.

Yes, I blame him for leaving as DS said 'it's all his fault' I feel DH could have done more to sort this all out (not that I know what)

Are you sure your DSS was actually reasonable, though? Or was it just a hormonal teenager feeling hard done by, as many as disposed to do? Nothing you've said makes it sound like your DH has actually done anything wrong.

@shiningstar2

It is difficult with 2 younger small children op and of course these other children were your new DPS. I think we all want to believe that doesn't make a difference but of course it does. How could it not? One child has his mother in the home ,who he is now sharing with two other children she is also mother to. The other two children have both their mother and father in the home.

Even in families where the children are all full siblings, the eldest can struggle in these circumstances. Suddenly no longer the baby and new expectations placed on him 'your the oldest, you should know better' is often said to first children, yet younger ones remain the babies at an age long past when these things are said to the eldest.
I'm wondering if your dh has been inclined to see your eldest in this light? Is he as strict with the two younger ones who are his biological children as he has been with your son, or does he make excuses for them being younger when they are well past the age he had these expectations of your son. This would not be mised by your son and the TV incident, although wrong, is a typical reaction from a teen who never feels he is is praised whatever he does, even when others in the home are.

He is as strict with our DC when he needs to be, but it is rare they ever need telling off or a punishment. They really are chilled out and well behaved. Actually, last week, DS2 and DD were playing and DS2 got excited and a bit silly, he threw his tablet in the air and it broke DDs money bank and she was obviously upset. DH told DS2 he couldn't watch TV the following day, a similar punishment that he would have given DS1. But this is rare that either of them have needed telling off.

It's not like the DC are walking on egg shells ( I think some people on here may think they live in fear of putting a foot wrong) constantly, they're happy kids, they just are really well behaved and we're very lucky.

I think the main thing between DH and DS was that DS always would answer back. I would address this when I was around, but when I wasn't around, obviously DH would, but DS wouldn't stop answering back to him, but did with me, so things would escalate and end up with a punishment, usually no PlayStation for the evening.

@aSofaNearYou

Yes, I blame him for leaving as DS said 'it's all his fault' I feel DH could have done more to sort this all out (not that I know what)

Are you sure your DSS was actually reasonable, though? Or was it just a hormonal teenager feeling hard done by, as many as disposed to do? Nothing you've said makes it sound like your DH has actually done anything wrong.

I think DS had kept his feelings in for a long time and maybe he expressed this by being purposely difficult (answering back, messy room etc) Although this of course is probably all normal teenage behaviour too.

I'm sad that he felt he couldn't talk to me about it, but are there any teenage boys that talk about their feelings?

So here's the kind of talk I'd be expecting or hoping for from DH in this situation:

To DS

• I am heartbroken that I have made you feel unsafe or unable to live in your home. I am sorry
• I want to make changes and earn your trust so that I can stay in your life
• I love you and I want you to be happy and thrive in life. In whatever way I can I want to help you, even if you decide that living with grandparents is the best thing for you
• I understand that this will take time but I'm always going to leave the door open and when you are ready to talk, I will be ready to listen

Even if DH doesn't love DS as a father, he ought to love you enough and care about the things that matter to you enough, to do everything in his power to rebuild his relationship with DS.

@SpideySenseTingles

So here's the kind of talk I'd be expecting or hoping for from DH in this situation:

To DS

• I am heartbroken that I have made you feel unsafe or unable to live in your home. I am sorry
• I want to make changes and earn your trust so that I can stay in your life
• I love you and I want you to be happy and thrive in life. In whatever way I can I want to help you, even if you decide that living with grandparents is the best thing for you
• I understand that this will take time but I'm always going to leave the door open and when you are ready to talk, I will be ready to listen

Even if DH doesn't love DS as a father, he ought to love you enough and care about the things that matter to you enough, to do everything in his power to rebuild his relationship with DS.

Thank you for this. I think it will have to be in a letter. I can imagine DS just rolling his eyes or smirking if DH said this to his face.

@fretting123 Agreed the blame doesn't lie with just one individual, DH could have been less strict, DS could have made more of an effort ( he was particularly defiant when asked to do things by both DH and I) and I should have realised how bad the relationship was between them.

Ok given that, do you think that a tiny bit of you is placing your own guilt and maybe upset you feel with DS onto DH ? As he's literally the only safe person left to blame, without any extra fall out.

This ^ combined with this I feel DH could have done more to sort this all out (not that I know what)

Is telling. You punish DH for the entirety of it, but rationally can't think of any way he could have prevented it or changed it.

If you punish someone usually it's because they have done something wrong and you feel there was another way to act. The problem is your punishing him and (probably yourself a tiny bit) without any route idea of how DH could have to prevent this happening. That's unfair.

Misplaced guilt is something that usually is placed on SMs but in this case it's the step dad. I really hate saying that as a mum and as a step mum but here we are. I don't think DH actions are proportional the reaction from DS. I also come from a blended family so have seen all sides.

In a normal family parental figures control children from the top down but in blended families it tends to be the opposite due to guilt of first families not making it for whatever reason. It's unhealthy for children and marriages alike because the control is consistently being battled over. You just don't get people apologising for being in a standard 2.0 family as you do a second family. If you have this dynamic it pays out in weird ways.

I think personally you need to step back from trying to fix this (given SC age) step back from taking sides (unless there's been real abuse from DH you can visibly see and my advice would be different) step back from blaming DH and punishing him and step back from your guilt and let everyone be. It's hard if your the fixer in the family god knows I know. But somethings can only be fixed with a I love you both, your both adults so adult.
I say all this if you truly want your marriage to work and ultimately your DS to come around.

If you wish to actively insert yourself and side with DS no one here would blame you but realise it will be the death of your marriage and you won't just carry the guilt of what happens with DS but the other children who will lose out having a parental unit. Either your in or your out so to speak.

My mum seemed like a wick witch of the west when I was a teenager and rebelling but now actually I saw that she was trying to help me become the best version of myself. But hindsight is such a beautiful thing she gave me the gift of space. Which actually made me come around quicker than if she had tried to fix it.

Sometimes at that age you don't want to be fixed you just want to be angry. Let him be angry.

I'm sad that he felt he couldn't talk to me about it, but are there any teenage boys that talk about their feelings?

There are fundamentally 0 teenage boys that talk about feelings. Please don't beat yourself up, the only emotion you tend to see from them is anger and grunts. He will come around.

[quote candlelightsatdawn]**@fretting123* Agreed the blame doesn't lie with just one individual, DH could have been less strict, DS could have made more of an effort ( he was particularly defiant when asked to do things by both DH and I) and I should have realised how bad the relationship was between them.*

Ok given that, do you think that a tiny bit of you is placing your own guilt and maybe upset you feel with DS onto DH ? As he's literally the only safe person left to blame, without any extra fall out.

This ^ combined with this I feel DH could have done more to sort this all out (not that I know what)

Is telling. You punish DH for the entirety of it, but rationally can't think of any way he could have prevented it or changed it.

If you punish someone usually it's because they have done something wrong and you feel there was another way to act. The problem is your punishing him and (probably yourself a tiny bit) without any route idea of how DH could have to prevent this happening. That's unfair.

Misplaced guilt is something that usually is placed on SMs but in this case it's the step dad. I really hate saying that as a mum and as a step mum but here we are. I don't think DH actions are proportional the reaction from DS. I also come from a blended family so have seen all sides.

In a normal family parental figures control children from the top down but in blended families it tends to be the opposite due to guilt of first families not making it for whatever reason. It's unhealthy for children and marriages alike because the control is consistently being battled over. You just don't get people apologising for being in a standard 2.0 family as you do a second family. If you have this dynamic it pays out in weird ways.

I think personally you need to step back from trying to fix this (given SC age) step back from taking sides (unless there's been real abuse from DH you can visibly see and my advice would be different) step back from blaming DH and punishing him and step back from your guilt and let everyone be. It's hard if your the fixer in the family god knows I know. But somethings can only be fixed with a I love you both, your both adults so adult.
I say all this if you truly want your marriage to work and ultimately your DS to come around.

If you wish to actively insert yourself and side with DS no one here would blame you but realise it will be the death of your marriage and you won't just carry the guilt of what happens with DS but the other children who will lose out having a parental unit. Either your in or your out so to speak.

My mum seemed like a wick witch of the west when I was a teenager and rebelling but now actually I saw that she was trying to help me become the best version of myself. But hindsight is such a beautiful thing she gave me the gift of space. Which actually made me come around quicker than if she had tried to fix it.

Sometimes at that age you don't want to be fixed you just want to be angry. Let him be angry.
[/quote]
Yes, I do feel guilty. Guilty that life was busy and I didn't see how bad it all was for DS.

I very much go through phases of my feelings towards DH, we are currently trying to buy a new house, and I'm hopeful that it will be a new start. I've made it completely clear to DS that there will always be space for him wherever I live.

I understand being a step parent is HARD.

@fretting123 you know my grandma once said that as a child your constantly hoping to out do your parents parenting, swearing down you will never make the same mistakes as them, then when you become a parent you will probably be apologising for new mistakes you made with your kids and your kids swearing up and down they will never make those mistakes with their kids and so the cycle continues.

If feeling guilty would help your situation I would recommend it but it's very much a paralysing emotion. Let it go for all parties involved. We all make mistakes parenting, as all teenagers feel misunderstood. Everything comes full circle ⭕️

Sounds like DH is fully onboard with what your saying. Don't keep pushing him away because you too like your DS are angry at yourself.

Sometime doing nothing is the most painful thing to do, teenagers are fickle.

Give yourself some room to breath. Rome wasn't built in a day

[quote candlelightsatdawn]@fretting123 you know my grandma once said that as a child your constantly hoping to out do your parents parenting, swearing down you will never make the same mistakes as them, then when you become a parent you will probably be apologising for new mistakes you made with your kids and your kids swearing up and down they will never make those mistakes with their kids and so the cycle continues.

If feeling guilty would help your situation I would recommend it but it's very much a paralysing emotion. Let it go for all parties involved. We all make mistakes parenting, as all teenagers feel misunderstood. Everything comes full circle ⭕️

Sounds like DH is fully onboard with what your saying. Don't keep pushing him away because you too like your DS are angry at yourself.

Sometime doing nothing is the most painful thing to do, teenagers are fickle.

Give yourself some room to breath. Rome wasn't built in a day [/quote]
Grandma sounds wise and lovely.

Although DS has made mature decisions, I would say he is still relatively an immature 18 yo.

Thank you.

It sounds like your parents pampered your DS1 just as much as his Disney DF, no wonder he went to live there!

I wonder if you fully supported your DH when he was being strict with your DS, or if you were contradictory at times. Any dissent you expressed on discipline in front of your DS1, even if it was just a look, would have made your DS1 resentful towards your DH.

Now you are where you are, I'd give your DS1 space and continue to let him live at your parents, but not pander to him. He doesn't have to like your DH, but he should be civil towards him at the very least. Being polite for a couple of hours around the lunch table is not going to kill your DS1, and you should speak to your DS1 about all of you visiting on Christmas Day (including your DH) beforehand.

There are some lovely, insightful views on this thread.

@CointreauVersial

There are some lovely, insightful views on this thread.

There are, it's been enormously helpful. Thank you to everyone who has commented, it's given me a lot of food for thought and I feel much less stressed. I will have a chat with DS tomorrow. Thanks again to all that have taken their time to reply. Goodnight x

Sorry OP but you've said they've never had a great relationship and in another post that DS was never fond of your DH. Which leads to the question... Why did you carry on your relationship with him and have 2 dc with someone that your young child didn't like?
If your mum has picked up your dh's negativity towards your ds then listen to her. My sister got with a guy when her son was about 6, went on to marry him and had 2 dc. Initially things were good and her DH adopted him. Over the years we could see that her DH treated ds1 differently to the other 2, he was constantly picking at him, being so negative and always putting him down. This was all low level stuff, but got worse as he got older. Long story short, dn is now 23, has terrible mental health (several suicide attempts) and his 'dad' has now reversed the adoption. My dsis and him split up over it (she blames dn's bio dad for being too permissive ) and her relation with dn has broken down completely as she never took his side whilst he was growing up.
Your son has been very mature and restrained OP, you need to give him credit for that. Stop blaming your ex for your dh's bad behaviour, and get some counselling for your ds.

@sunnyandshare Stop blaming your ex for your dh's bad behaviour, and get some counselling for your ds.

No where had the OP blamed dad and not held DH accountable🤦🏼‍♀️ and I'm sorry for your nephew I truly am but here's the thing, looking at a problem from only one side of the coin only gives one perspective and it's rarely a accurate one. There's not enough specific in your post to make any type of judgement call on your personal situation but I'm gonna say this

Permissive parents or disney dads/parents do real harm .

They do not give boundaries to help enable children feel secure and loved enough to enforce social boundaries and actually do their children damage especially in later life when they are adults because they don't know how to cope with adult life (various studies on this actually). They often don't turn out to the most empathetic people in the world and empathy is a taught skill. If not taught by your parents, the world will teach it to you and it won't be kind about it.

You do not have children to keep them child like forever, you have children for them to develop grow and become functioning adults of society or one would hope.