Christmas Day solution

[fretting123]

Back story .... DH has been in DS life since he was 4 and moved in with us when DS was 6. DH and I then had 2 DC relatively close together. DSs DF has been very present throughout his life (although very much a Disney dad with very lazy parenting ideas) and they have a good (albeit more like mates) relationship.

DH and my ex could NOT be more different. DH can be strict and authoritative and this was always difficult for DS, especially after spending time with his DF. DSs teenage years were typical (IMO) messy room, answering back etc. DH found this hard as did I, but my motto was 'pick your battles'.

Fast forward to last Nov (2nd lockdown). DS is now 17 and working full time. Not sure if the trigger, but he basically lost his shit, punched his TV and was in tears. Obviously I followed him to his room to see what the hell was going on, but he was too angry to talk. DH came up and DS screamed in his face 'this is all your fault'. I told DH to leave the room immediately and sat with DS till he calmed down. When he did he told me that he couldn't live her anymore, that he hates my DH and he had been wanting to say this for a long time but didn't want to upset me. He asked if I could phone my DPs (who he has a very good relationship with) and ask them if he could stay there for a bit, they agreed and said let him stay for a week then we'll talk about it. So off DS went. I was obviously distraught that evening and couldn't speak to DH about it. Unfortunately the following week, I caught Covid and was reasonably poorly with it. So the week at my DPs turned into 3.

When I could leave the house following Covid, I went to see DS and mentioned about coming back home and that things would change at home (I had talked at length with DH about the situation in this time) But my DS said he wasn't coming back.

It's now been a year. DS still at DPs house (thank fuck they are wonderful ) . I see him at every opportunity I have along with my DC and our relationship has never been better. Although I realise this is because I'm not having to pester him round the house etc. In this last year, DS has not stepped foot back in his home. Unfortunately DH works from home, I think he would have come around if this wasn't the case.

I'm completely worried about Xmas day plans. We always go to my DPs in the day ( we did last year, and DS just blanked DH and they both just bit their lips, not a great atmosphere but it was nice for the other DC ) Recently it was my DFs birthday, we all went around for a couple of hours, DS did not come out of his room due to DH being there and it was all quite upsetting for me that he choose not to (although I understand that he would have felt uncomfortable) I just don't think he would come out of his room on Xmas Day if we went around. I desperately want all my DC to be together on Xmas day but I don't see it happening. DH is of the option that DS is an adult and just needs to be grown up about it.

So basically you turned a blind eye to your DH bullying your DS for years and at the very first opportunity he got the hell out of there and never came back.

Your DH’s behaviour has caused this. So he can suck it up for Christmas Day, especially given that your poor DS had to live his whole childhood sucking it up.

What is your DH like with your other two DCs? They will probably leave asap too if he treats them the same way. And then you will be stuck with him on your own.

This is so so sad (my life is not perfect so I'm not judging)

Can you gently talk to your son to encourage him to come and that dh was wrong and you love him. Say to him you respect him and know he is a good person but you need to work towards repairing things for the sake of you and his siblings. He doesn't have to like dh. God its awful

DH should be trying to mend the relationship. Any explanations, apologies and solutions should come directly from him. It's not the OP's job to do it for him.

@Interrobanger So basically you turned a blind eye to your DH bullying your DS for years

Forgive me when did asking children to pick up after themselves turn into bullying ? Unless I have missed something OP has posted, asking a child to clean up after themselves at age 17 isn't a unreasonable expectation.

I must be a awful bully to my DC asking them to pick up after themselves, awful, traumatic way to live akin with abuse (this is sarcasm just before someone thinks I'm being serious).

I could have written this word for word - I was your DS.

I also acquired a "strict" stepdad aged 4, in contrast to flaky/fun/transient biological DF. DSDad and DM went on to have my younger DB.

Like your DS, there was no single event that triggered things, but over the years I grew to like DSDad less and less, and by the time I reached my teens could barely tolerate being in the same room. He wasn't a bully, particularly, we just didn't get on. He rarely disciplined me, he just moaned to DM about my behaviour, so I never felt I could be myself at home. The late teens is such a tricky time, asserting yourself as an adult but still being a child at home.

My escape was boarding school from 11, and as soon as I hit 17 and could drive I started to spend most of the holidays with DF (who had by then remarried a lovely woman). Like you, my DM was very upset by this, but maintained the links as much as she could. And she recognised that, like your DS, it was the mature thing to do, to take myself out of a situation where I was stressed and unhappy.

Just to finish my story, and give you some hope, eventually I went off to university and moved into my own home, as you do.....and over the years, slowly but surely, I began to soften towards DSDad. Once it was no longer an adult vs child situation I could see why DM married him, and we got much closer. He turned into an amazing, caring grandparent. He died last year, and I did a reading at his funeral.

As for Christmas Day, well, tricky. I would like to think that, as your DS was mature enough to remove himself from the home environment he is also mature enough to realise that sometimes you have to put your feelings aside for the benefit of the family and younger siblings, and to allow you to spend Christmas together. Have a chat with him and explain how much this means to you - maybe suggest he sits down for the meal, but is allowed to absent himself afterwards. Likewise, make sure your DH is on best behaviour.

OP, you are in a very difficult situation. If the situation with your son was so extreme that he had to move out, it is quite possible that the underlying causes still exist and are going untreated and unexamined.

You say that in your opinion , your son was a normal teen and your husband was/is authoritarian. Has it not occurred to you that if your husband is treating the children who remain in your home in the same way that he treated your older son that you may have yet another problem festering in your home?

Perhaps, it would help if you and your son were to seek some form of counseling to explore the kind of adult relationship that you can develop under the circumstances. How are your younger children responding to their brother's absence? To what do they attribute the move? Does your husband treat them in the same manner that he treated your older son?

It is quite possible that your younger children may have the same but not yet articulated reactions and responses to your husband's authoritarian personality.

Age 17 is also around the time for the onset of certain mental health issues in young people. This could possibly be what is happening with your son, but it sounds more likely that something involving your husband is the triggering cause.

In your place, I would become hyper vigilant in observing the reactions of your younger children to whatever is happening in the home environment. If you did not see this coming with the older child, you do not want to miss possible signs in the younger kids.

Why not spend Xmas morning in your own home and take the kids (without your husband,) over to your parents' home in the early afternoon?

[quote candlelightsatdawn]**@Interrobanger So basically you turned a blind eye to your DH bullying your DS for years

Forgive me when did asking children to pick up after themselves turn into bullying ? Unless I have missed something OP has posted, asking a child to clean up after themselves at age 17 isn't a unreasonable expectation.

I must be a awful bully to my DC asking them to pick up after themselves, awful, traumatic way to live akin with abuse (this is sarcasm just before someone thinks I'm being serious). [/quote]
When I read ‘authorative’ and ‘strict’ on here with regards to men, it always ends up being code for ‘nasty bully’.

Maybe this is the longest teenage tantrum in history. Or maybe, given how extreme the action DS has taken, there’s probably more to read between the lines.

I think he's viewing the situation as:

He doesn't have a particularly present father. He had a present mother.

His siblings have a present father, and a present mother.

You, by your own admission say you have stayed with DH so they have their DF present. Yet DS sees that you did not do the same for him. And you chose to remain with DH, resulting in him having no present mother, and no present father, so his siblings could have both. You could have chosen a situation where he had a present mother, they had a present mother, and all children had a less present father, but you opted for DS to lose both whilst ensuring the others kept both.

His anger is at DH because he is the "thing" that caused the choice to occur. Really he should be angry at you for the choice you made. But he's not, because you're his mum, the only present parent he's known, so he's less likely to push you away, regardless. And DH is just a bloke, who it's much easier for him to point his anger at.

You say the relationship between you and DS is the best it's been. I feel so sad for him. With regards to Christmas, again, you don't see why DH shouldn't spend Christmas day away from his DC. Yet, you chose for him to be there the other 364 days as well, rather than have DS at all.

While you're handwringing, trying to sort things out, OP, what has been your DH's take on the past year? Does he discuss trying to mend the broken relationship or has he opted out, out of sight, out of mind?

@Interrobanger I think it's worth considering that as parents, we are biologically programmed to view our children's behaviour as less annoying otherwise we would all go mad. The protective instinct is strong so we do overlook things that given perspective should be corrected. If you have dad on the other side going wayyhheeey no rules at my house home boy, you can see how a teenager would be like ahem yes please. That's the transition because eventually DS may come to value the same things as DH but right now they just can't. That's ok.

However since OP has said there's logistically nothing she can see that's caused it I suspect it's less about the big bad wolf and more about a personality clash that's been building, coming bang on at the time where hormones and a child stepping into adulthood. If this was a younger child I may agree with you but he's 17 so will and should be flexing that independent muscle. That's a good sign although likely to worry the hell out of everyone.

God knows I did at that age, everyone remembers feeling misunderstood and just a bit aggy and I moved out at similar age. At the time I thought my mum was a demon and with my adult perspective on, it wasn't because my mum was a ogre and I was a bit of a nightmare, it was just natural progression of baby bird has to leave the nest at some point and it's easier to say this persons a cow bag so I have separate to get the space . Rebellion isn't a uncommon thing and actually is a sign of a healthy transition.

Teenagers are hard. In my view the hardest action to take sometimes is nothing. Chances are this will settle.

You could have chosen a situation where he had a present mother, they had a present mother, and all children had a less present father, but you opted for DS to lose both whilst ensuring the others kept both.

Are you actually suggesting that because teenager didn't like to be asked to clear up after themselves, OP should take away from the other children a father figure to make it "fair" ?

That's mental. Even for this board that is mental.

Sounds like you've picked your dh over your ds. I also read being authoritave and strict as a excuse to out someone in their place so to speak.

No, I'm not suggesting that at all.

But I don't think for a moment, a child who already doesn't have his father around, chooses to permanently remove himself from his home and his mother, rather than keep his room tidy.

What are you doing to support your children still at home?
Are they safe?

I think you need to have a word with your DS, tbh. He needs to understand that he can't expect your DH not to be with his kids on these occasions just because he doesn't like him (particularly as it doesn't sound like he has much of a valid reason to hate him).

If he won't be around DH on Christmas and be civil then I think you need to not go to your parents and have it at home, maybe you pop over to see him, but he will be missing out on time with his siblings because he isn't willing to be civil. He's chosen to act like an adult and move out early and, though it's a bit sooner than you all might have liked, this has just sped up the process of him growing up and not living with you. He's almost 18, he now needs to start acting like a grown up if he wants to make grown up decisions.

@MrsPleasant

So DH has been a bit of a twat towards ds over the years and the first person to do something about this was ds years later - to be spoken to unreasonably for years would take its toll on anyone, let alone a child. I'd be telling DH to find somewhere else for Christmas lunch, time with your ds who is so unhappy is more important. He must feel terribly alienated.

DH would be perfectly entitled to feel time with HIS kids is more important and he's not going to be sent away because this teenager didn't like being told to tidy up.

OP spending time with her oldest child does not trump DH spending time with the kids they share, you seem to have forgotten about those.

Op chose to have a child then put a bloke before him by the sounds of it. There are bigger issues in the family than them having lunch all together.

OP, I really feel for you being stuck in the middle like this.

I think you need to show your DS that he matters too - spend a couple of hours with him and your other DC on Christmas Day.

Beyond that, in your shoes I would insist that DH goes out one evening a week so that DS can have dinner with you and his siblings. That would be non-negotiable for me. DS has already removed himself 24/7, your DH can remove himself one evening a week.

@CointreauVersial your story made me cry, I'm so glad it worked out ok in the end.

I don't understand all these comments slamming OP's DH - by her own admission, all he is done is not speak to DS as nicely as he could have done at times, in terms of nagging DS?? She has not given any indication of poor behaviour by her DH beyond that.

DS is 18, he is working full time and lives out of the family home now - surely he can just bite his tongue on the one day of the year he might be expected to be in the room with his stepdad so that his family can be together?

Not saying the issues wouldn't be better off dealt with, they would, but it sounds like DS is the one who isn't willing to move on, not his stepdad.

Beyond that, in your shoes I would insist that DH goes out one evening a week so that DS can have dinner with you and his siblings. That would be non-negotiable for me

These kind of comments are nuts. He's not her child, she cannot insist or lay down non negotiables. DS is the one being difficult. They could go over to see him once a week, it would be ludicrous to "insist" DH leaves his own home for no damn reason.

@MrsPleasant

Op chose to have a child then put a bloke before him by the sounds of it. There are bigger issues in the family than them having lunch all together.

How has she put a bloke before him though?

By OP's own admission, her DS was a typical difficult teen (untidy, answering back) and her DH was a bit more on his case about that than she was. She even says her own relationship with her DS has improved over the past year due to not having to pester him about things around the house.

Just because a child doesn't like something doesn't mean that OP has 'put a bloke' (aka her husband of 13 years) ahead of him. He's not automatically in the right just because he's her kid.

@MrsPleasant

Op chose to have a child then put a bloke before him by the sounds of it. There are bigger issues in the family than them having lunch all together.

Technically I would say that she has prioritised the younger 2 children (and herself) over the older child

*By OP's own admission, her DS was a typical difficult teen (untidy, answering back) and her DH was a bit more on his case about that than she was. She even says her own relationship with her DS has improved over the past year due to not having to pester him about things around the house.

Just because a child doesn't like something doesn't mean that OP has 'put a bloke' (aka her husband of 13 years) ahead of him. He's not automatically in the right just because he's her kid.*

Well said! That last part is something a lot of people seen to forget.

It sounds like DS has just cast DH as "bad cop" but that doesn't mean his treatment of him was actually unreasonable. Kids often think things are unfair when they are not.

@SmolCat

I would be so worried about my DS. Can you suggest family counselling for you and him to attend together? Then depending on how that goes possibly for your DH to join too in the future.

I do worry, very much so. But he appears happy and is quite open with me. I have considered looking into counselling, not sure if DS would want to though. DH has suggested this as a way to move forward.

@MoreAloneTime

It sounds like their bad relationship was swept under the rug for too long and then it eventually bubbled over. I think if DS and DH are going to attempt to talk it out there needs to be a neutral third party to mediate.

Agree on the 3rd party. But right now I don't think DS would do this.