How much do I owe his kids?

[hilfehilfehilfe]

I am 26. My partner is 32. He earns more than I do but not loads. We have been together since summer 2019. Was not the OW. He has 3 kids from his marriage and they are 5, 7 and 8. I met them Dec 20. I love him a lot but I am starting to feel trapped and unhappy and worried that this is just how my life is going to be forever now. DP is great, thoughtful, supportive and absolutely adores me.

He won't get divorced until his wife is settled with a new boyfriend and also wants to divorce. They never communicate so they would have to be very serious for DP to even have heard of his existence. He has done very little research about divorce and is overall just concerned about not being able to afford it. I am unhappy and ashamed of this and have told him so.

He has a large amount of debt (~£15k) that he is paying off in the agreed installments. He has done no research or work to look into paying this off faster.

He doesn't parent as I would want to. I do not want children so this is not as big an issue as it might be. I think he wants a blended family with me taking on more of a step mum role. I feel they have an amazing mum already and him, they do not need a third parent and I am just a nice, safe adult they know well. He resents my attitude on this.

I own and pay for our house entirely by myself. His contribution is he buys 2/3s(ish) of our groceries as he is meant to be clearing his debt. He is currently in a good financial position (i.e. not going into his overdraft each month and living within his paycheque but not able to save etc.). We moved in together into this house May 21. I resent that I bought this house and pay for it alone in order to protect myself in the event of the relationship not working out - but now it isn't really working for me I don't feel like I can ask him to move out as it would completely uproot his life and the childrens'.

I feel like I went from an individual person to a homeowner, breadwinner, provider and stepmum in the space of a few months. I don't think I want to break up but I do want to go back to being just an individual person in with my own space. I just don't know what I owe his children - their friends are on this street, their bedrooms are here. They love me, they love our life here and they are settled and very happy. I feel horribly guilty to even have wobbles about my relationship with their dad. I feel horrible about turfing DP out too and think it would damage our relationship perhaps fatally but I just feel like I'm suffocating and I need the situation to change. How do I do the right thing by the kids - can I say it's just him that moves out, and he can still have them here during his contact time?

Please help. What's fair of me to do. I don't want to hurt anyone but I can't remember the last time I was happy.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/stepparenting/4319327-20-years-of-absurdity

@hilfehilfehilfe read that thread.
Don’t be this woman. Get him out your house. He needs to get his divorce sorted.

@summertime202

I would ask him & the kids to move out! You can carry on dating ( I would personally break up with him ) I feel Like you're being taken advantage of OP. Don't forget he is all nice & loving to you but he has a reason to be .. you're the main provider. Ask him to move out and understand where you're coming from and watch his reaction. If he really loves you and he's "the one" he'll understand you, move out, pay off his debt & get divorced ASAP ! I have a feeling he won't do any of the above

He sounds like the kind of man who will be angry if/when the OP asks him to leave, and she couldn't be sure he'd go quietly, especially if he hasn't got anywhere else lined up.

This type of man believes he's entitled to do as he pleases in every sense of the word, and take advantage as he sees fit, and may be enraged that his cushy number is coming to an end. Stay safe OP, I really hope you are able to create a better life for yourself down the line.

@hilfehilfehilfe keep checking in. I do hope you’re ok.

OP you sound lovely. Too lovely. He is using you & happy whilst you let him. Of course HE is happy. He has everything the way he wants it. YOU are NOT happy. Why is his happiness more important than yours?

I would suggest the following, calmly & firmly:

After our conversation I have made a decision. You are moving out of my house by the weekend. I will not change my mind. I am putting myself first because you don't. You don't respect me and I won't accept that any more.

Don't engage in any arguments. If he keeps on pushing, reduce the time limit. Ok, it's now Friday I want you out by.
He goes on again (but what about the kids etc). Fine, now it's Thursday. Keep on & it's tomorrow. I've had enough. You are leaving my house.

And preferably have someone with you when he goes. Then change the locks.

It'll be hard. But when you can relax in your own home with only the cost of you (less than with him & his kids. You will notice the difference) you will be fine. And free to meet someone who wants you, respects you, loves you. Not just use you.

This is really sad. You've clearly spent a lot of time thinking about this, and about his feelings, and how to be fair, and there's no sign that he's giving you any indication that he truly cares. He's just thinking of himself and saying whatever makes you pipe down. I know you're saying he can't leave imminently but he can, he really isn't your problem. Perhaps reading about boundaries and self esteem might be helpful.

@Starseeking you’re absolutely right! He did get divorced (prior to us buying our home) and luckily that was something he wanted to happen too otherwise things would have been much harder. OP maybe that’s the biggest issue and a deadline is what is needed - at least then you have a timeframe and the boundaries you need?

OP, how can he say that his contribution towards his and his children's groceries etc is him contributing towards you as a couple. How much would he have to pay in rent and utilities for a house share where he could bring his kids to stay? Does he pay that much per month to your benefit?

Can't believe he is maintaining that feeding and providing household items for himself and his own children is something you benefit from. Is he confusing you with his wife?

How much would your food and household bills be without him and his children's visits? Bet you'd find you or your house doesn't really benefit all that much from his contributions.

For reasons I can't go into here, I can't end things or move him out of the house yet. But I do think I'm leaning that way. I need to talk to my mum too, as well as you vipers.

It's your house. There is no reason on earth that you cannot tell him to get the fuck out now. He's a manipulative, financially abusive asshole and you deserve better. Get him out now.

We’re with you @hilfehilfehilfe 👊🏼

Thank you everyone. I'm reading everything you write and will continue to do so.

Everything will work out for the best op.

Nothing more to add than what has been said already. Apart from I thought having a house just in my name was enough. My ex only paid towards food. He took me to court for an interest in the property. Because he had not a penny to his name, even if I won I had to pay court fees then try and claim them back. I should be mortgage free now. Sadly I am a long way from that. He was prepared to take it all the way despite it being the only home his son had, I nearly lost everything. He told anyone that would listen the money he got of me was to buy a home for him and my son to stay at. He spent all the money. 10 years on he still moving from girlfriend to girlfriend. They must have their own home so he has somewhere to live.

Run for the hills.

@Louloubelle78

Wow. That is incredibly sobering. I didn't even know that was possible. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

OP if he was Debt free therefore able to contribute fairly would you still want him to move out?

With the arrangements he has made how long until he will be debt free. Say it's 5 years (to throw a random figure out there), could he not look at better paid work so he could pay more and reduce this to 2-3 years.
Also has he looked into getting one loan to clear off all debts leaving 1 debt that's likely to be more manageable financially.

As for the divorce I would tell him it's time he got on with it now that he's moved in. Did he and ex own a house? There could be money to be released from the house which he could use to pay towards/pay off debt. Are you sure it's a debt he's paying, and not a mortgage on his old house

" I said tonight let's get rid of the deadline, I don't want to strongarm or bully him into anything. No deadline. And definitely don't get divorced now because he would only be doing it for me and if it got ugly it would become my fault. "If it were up to me, I'd never get divorced". I couldn't effectively rebuff the 'it's just a piece of paper' argument. So that situation hasn't changed. I told him I couldn't understand how he thought that was fair or reasonable to ask that of me, to put my life on hold until a woman I've never get gets a boyfriend she may or may not want and wouldn't tell him about until it was serious enough to affect the kids. He asks, how does it put my life on hold? And I didn't have a strong enough answer."

I'm not sure what you mean by you "couldn't effectively rebuff" his argument about it just being a piece of paper. Is this man seriously trying to argue that you are unreasonable for not wanting to be in a romantic live-in relationship with a man who IS MARRIED TO SOMEONE ELSE?!!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?

What about "how does it put my life on hold." Well first of all, you're living with someone WHO IS MARRIED TO SOMEONE ELSE. Second of all, if you were to become pregnant, you would have zero protection of your or your child's interests. Third of all, as you pointed out to him, it means that you are being placed in the position of financially supporting him to protect your interests, with no evidence from him that he will ever (a) stop leeching off of you or (b) reimburse you for your financial support of him.

His argument that his debt is "none of your business" is nonsense because getting a handle on his debt was one of your conditions stated for allowing him to move in. So he is breaking the deal he established with you prior to moving in with you.

I am truly baffled that you see yourself as not having given a "sufficiently strong answer" to the way he is using you. Let me paraphrase the discussion you just had with him:

You: Here are the ways I think I should be treated with more respect and dignity.

Him: How dare you expect that you deserve to be treated with more respect and dignity. You have failed to explain to me why you are worth it.

Why? Why would any woman be willing to be in a romantic relationship with a man who feels she is not worth being treated with respect and dignity? What exactly is romantic or loving about that?

Just FYI, you don't actually have to justify yourself here. You don't need to convince him that you are worth being treated properly. You only have to convince yourself. A "strong enough answer" is "this is what I want." Why do you want to be in a relationship with someone who is not MARRIED TO ANOTHER WOMAN? Because that's what you want! Why do you not want to financially support someone who is unwilling to contribute fairly towards the upkeep of himself and his children? Because you don't want to! That is reason enough!

He was (if a belligerent) very reasonable and I didn't feel like my arguments were strong enough.

Excuse me?

Your 'arguments' don't need to be strong enough.
You are not in a boardroom negotiation, or a court of law.
Stop imagining you need his permission to state your boundaries. (It is very telling that you are confusing BOUNDARIES with ARGUMENTS btw).

All that has happened tonight is that you have - again - stated your boundaries.
And yet again (despite agreeing to do so previous to moving in to your house), he is simply refusing to accept your boundaries.
He has spent the entire time you spoke to to him (& think about how hard you had to psyche yourself up to do this) just rebutting your every request & refusing to hold up the end of the bargain he accepted when he moved into your house.

Maybe you can state your boundaries again in a year.
And again in 2023.
How happy are you going to feel, doing it again in 2030?

This man does not want to divorce his wife.
He does not want to clear his debt.
He is so arrogant he thinks that Stepchange is not for the likes of him.

He has you over a barrel.
Have you cottoned on now, to why he won't divorce his wife?
It's so that he'd 'better not' make any concrete financial contributions to your living set-up, just in case it affects the financial settlement of the divorce (the one he's not going to make happen anyway) ...

Can you not see how convenient & cheap this is for him?

And you haven't even raised the stepchildren subject yet.

This man is using you for financial gain & 'wifework', has lied to you, & you - a young woman who does not even want children - now need to face the fact yet he has moved himself & his children into a house you pay for, on a promise that he would deal with the debts & divorce as you agreed, so that you could start working toward a more mutually beneficial relationship.

Now he has confirmed he's never going to give you what you want, are you starting to see his selfishness & manipulation for what it is?

I am so sorry you had to put so much of yourself into trying to persuade a man who has broken his promises to change his mind & keep them.
He has not just refused, but left you feeling tied in knots with belligerent demands that you just let him just carry on reneging on his promise, so that everything stays peachy for him at your expense (emotional & financial).

You know he's never going to fix this, don't you?
And that his "I needed to decide whether I wanted to be with him or not" is yet more manipulation, & brinkmanship?

Look after yourself OP. Stop listening to this man's words, & observe his actions.

He asks, how does it put my life on hold? And I didn't have a strong enough answer.

Yes you do. You explained it yourself, to us.
He cannot properly contribute to housing expenses, & that means you are paying for everything so not saving for your future.
Despite that, he overpays maintenance to the wife he will not let go of, & has gone back on his word to find out how to optimise his debt repayment schedule. Meaning even less money for the future you wanted to build with him.

He also keeps you emotionally 'on hold', because you don't like living with another woman's husband, & feel that it puts a giant ugly question mark over his commitment to you.

You know all this, & you still knew it tonight.
(So does he btw. He just doesn't care).
But he's just expert at taking the wind out of your sails, so you lose your thread, isn't he?

For reasons I can't go into here, I can't end things or move him out of the house yet.

Oh sweetheart.
Are these reasons all to his benefit, & your detriment?
And are they all reasons he has given you, or manipulated you into accepting?

oh my love - you really sound so sad and downtrodden

One things truck me Either I suck up the compromises I have to make to be with him or I don't.

I've read your posts a couple of times - but I can't find compromise from him anywhere in your posts. just you being rail-roaded into giving in to him.

I'm with ChargingBuck - are these reasons you can't get him to leave for your benefit or his ? Just a little mind experiment - given our past responses to your situation, can you imagine what we all would say if you could share those reasons with us? I'm finding it hard to come up with a single reason, let alone multiple ones which would prevent you from telling him to leave. You don't have to share your reasoning with us, but I do ask you to think of the reasons from what we might say.

Sorry - that's one things triking me, not trucking me....plus bold fail

LTB asap

If it were up to me, I'd never get divorced". I couldn't effectively rebuff the 'it's just a piece of paper' argument. So that situation hasn't changed

OP, he doesn’t want to marry you and he won’t.

If he wanted to marry you, he would divorce his wife and propose to you. It doesn’t matter why he doesn’t want to - it may be that he’s cynical about marriage or it may be that he’s not actually that into you.

But he is saying, loud and clear, that he won’t give you the commitment you want.

There is nothing wrong with wanting the man you love to marry you, nothing at all. You are not needy or demanding, but he is not going to be the person who commits to you.

To me, he sounds like a bullying prick who is using you and your house and your goodwill and acting like a belligerent, argumentative child. You sound lovely and you deserve someone who can truly appreciate you.

Hi....I have read your posts and this was exactly my situation to a T 4 years ago! Aside from he does pay his way to be fair. We got together when I was 26 and he has two children. I sold my flat and we bought a house together...although he does pay half I overstretch myself to accommodate his children and the house will never really feel like my home. We've put up with a lot of shit from his ex over the last 4 years and he refused to divorce her for a long time because of her mental health...he did but he paid for it. We're engaged now. Its been so so hard OP and I don't know if I am truly happy....if someone had given me the ability to glimpse into my future and see how I would feel at 30 I would most definitely have ran away at 26. If you need to talk, please message me, I would have really benefited from the insight a few years ago.

For reasons I can't go into here, I can't end things or move him out of the house yet.

I'm trying to think of a single reason a home-owning, fiscally solvent person could have for thinking they 'can't' end a relationship. The only one I can possibly think of is that the person owes me a great deal of money and I know I won't get it back once they're gone. And even that wouldn't hold water for me if my MH or financial security were at risk.

If you 'can't' end it because he 'has nowhere to go' that is not your problem. He got along without you before, he'll get along without you after. Nor is any other problem of his a reason for you not to end it.

@BlueLights22

You can end your relationship, too, you know. You sound very unhappy to me. Even joint home purchase is not a reason to be miserable.