Going on holiday

[LuckyGrace]

We can never afford to go away during the school holidays all of us together. We have one DC under school age and my husband has 2 older DC.

Are we unreasonable to go away when DSC are away with their mother? The past few years we have done this, when we know when DSC go away, we will book something for the same week so contact isn't affected.

@Youseethethingis

that might be upsetting to them, but I would expect not half as upsetting as sitting in their tent and their siblings talking about the fab time they had with their joint father If the SC are on holiday with their mother at the same time then nobody need sit in a tent and they can all talk about their nice holidays when they get home.

This sounds like the best option.

So far, DSS has not been impacted by them at all
You might be absolutely right. You know your DSS obviously better than us. I would however air some caution. My ex and partner would have said exactly the same when they went away with her children leaving mine behind using a lie, that inevitably got caught. They didn't show any emotions to them and they certainly didn't say anything to them. They didn't even really say anything about it to me then. They certainly did years later though. It had hurt them very much but didn't feel they could say anything because they were expected to be told that they should be grateful they had holidays with me and to stop acting spoilt. Kids are very good at hiding things, children of separated parents especially.

Parents need to put in effort to ensure their children understand that this is just the nature of having separated parents and is certainly not an indication that their mum/dad doesn't love them or cares more about his younger children than them Absolutely, some things are inevitable. And I agree that it's about the right balance.

This is what I've picked up from OP's first post. Not that they were going away without their SCs, but that this was the case two years at least in a row because they can't afford to take them. This appears as the balance only leaning one way.

If the SC are on holiday with their mother at the same time then nobody need sit in a tent and they can all talk about their nice holidays when they get home
What makes your holiday so nice? The places you visited? The food you ate? The beach you went on? Or is it all this with the people you were with? Is it so hard to understand that for kids, it's often more about the quality time you had with your parent, especially one you don't see how often that makes a holiday special?

Do the kids even mind? If its a younger child centred holiday then they might not even want to come?

How about your children understanding how lucky they are to live with both their parents, to enjoy seeing them every day, and share only one home with only one set of rules, and therefore can appreciate that spending a less fancy holiday, so that these children get to share special moments with their dad too is more than a fair compromise

Yeah, right. Those lucky, lucky children of the lady their Dad currently lives with. In that relationship that will last for ever and ever. Amen?

So just because right now their parents happen to be together, they and those parents can't take a holiday?

Those currently lucky, lucky children are just as likely to be the children of separated parents a few years down the line. The pressures on a blended family are far greater than those on a nuclear family. Bonus mums are required to develop the wisdom of Solomon as a minimum entrance requirement!

What makes your holiday so nice? The places you visited? The food you ate? The beach you went on? Or is it all this with the people you were with? Is it so hard to understand that for kids, it's often more about the quality time you had with your parent, especially one you don't see how often that makes a holiday special?

I think that’s an adult projection. My kids have been away with many different people. My mum, my brother, me alone, dad alone, school, sports trips. They are just happy to be away and doing things they like, swimming, theme parks, whatever. Who they go with is the least important part 😂.

Kids are self centred. I doubt they’d refuse a holiday or any experience because if dad isn’t there and they will miss quality time with him.

If we are now saying that the quality or length of the holiday doesn't matter then what's the point in any of it?
Why go for a week self catering in Spain when you should be just as happy downgrading to 4 days in a tent in the UK to allow the SC to have a second holiday?
Apparently it's only on holiday that quality time can EVER happen...

*I think that’s an adult projection. My kids have been away with many different people. My mum, my brother, me alone, dad alone, school, sports trips. They are just happy to be away and doing things they like, swimming, theme parks, whatever. Who they go with is the least important part 😂.

Kids are self centred. I doubt they’d refuse a holiday or any experience because if dad isn’t there and they will miss quality time with him.*

Yes I agree with this tbh. For my DSS, it is definitely more about the stuff.

You might be absolutely right. You know your DSS obviously better than us. I would however air some caution. My ex and partner would have said exactly the same when they went away with her children leaving mine behind using a lie, that inevitably got caught. They didn't show any emotions to them and they certainly didn't say anything to them. They didn't even really say anything about it to me then. They certainly did years later though. It had hurt them very much but didn't feel they could say anything because they were expected to be told that they should be grateful they had holidays with me and to stop acting spoilt. Kids are very good at hiding things, children of separated parents especially.

Yes, I appreciate that. We do pay attention to how DSS seems to be responding to things but can honestly look back on the decisions we have made in good conscience.

Do the kids even mind? If its a younger child centred holiday then they might not even want to come?
It would appear some kids do and others don't.

Kids are self centred. I doubt they’d refuse a holiday or any experience because if dad isn’t there and they will miss quality time with him
That doesn't apply to myself or my kids at all. What I wanted more than anything was to spend quality time with both my parents. We had rushed lives, both working FT, weekends busy with chores. Holidays were THE time we got to do nice things together, parents relaxed, doing fun things all together. I didn't care so much where we went, it was about sharing the experience together.

My kids are the same. They are now adults but we regularly talk about that or that holiday, recounting the fun adventures we had, the times we got lost, the food we ordered not knowing what it was. All great times and memories they don't have with their dad because he's never bothered to take them anywhere.

Ultimately, if kids don't care so much who they go with, there is always the option if finances can't extend, for the SM to go with their child without their dad, since ultimately, it's the holiday alone that matters, not who you are with. Surely it applies to all children and adults?

@vivainsomnia this is true. OP only you and your DP can tell if the child in question will mind.

Ultimately, if kids don't care so much who they go with, there is always the option if finances can't extend, for the SM to go with their child without their dad, since ultimately, it's the holiday alone that matters, not who you are with. Surely it applies to all children and adults?

I think it depends on the child. I wasn't that materialistic a kid but DSS really is, and it seems many are.

Also I think a lot of it is as much for the adults as the children. My DP wants to go on holiday with ME, not just either or both of the kids. I want him there to help me, as we parent together. And HE wants to have experience of going on holiday with his youngest child, as he already does with his older one.

All great times and memories they don't have with their dad because he's never bothered to take them anywhere

That’s not holiday specific though is it. You don’t have to go on holiday to have shared experiences and memories.

For you as well, holiday experience with your parents is important as they had less time for you the rest of the year.

For involved dads who see their kids regularly, have nice days out, make time for them, spend quality time frequently etc the focus is less on the two weeks per year. They have nice memories and can talk about the time they went to the zoo, or got lost on the way to london.

I would think for most kids having a father around generally is better than having “rushed lives” that mean you barely spend time together.

In fact from your angle, dp and I probably have the “rushed lives” you describe. Kids have hobbies, jobs, housework. Our kids see less of him as he makes time to spend with his older dc, while i stay behind and do the ballet/swimming/gymnastics runs.

So as stepdc see more of him during the year and spend more quality time, why can’t we balance that out with a holiday if we can’t afford to take all of them?

And if it bothered their parents that much they should have considered it when they split up
I actually agree with this.
When I split from exh I knew there would be sacrifices made by everyone including my dc, and that their sacrifice - an intact family with all that entails including family holidays - would seem massive to them, & it was. But I also knew that a holiday alone with me OR their dad would be better for them long term than a holiday with two parents not getting on. But these sort of things are just the reality of having divorced parents and children have to get used to that & they do. The problem is the adults projecting their own crap onto the kids.
My dc go away with me because I have no younger children & they can have the type of holiday with me they like. Their dad goes away with his (much) younger children & no one cares.
He then does a weekend of teen activities with them at some point which their sm has no interest in. He has taken our eldest away alone & no one has minded, he has taken our middle one away alone & no one has minded.
It's quality, not quantity that matters to kids.
All this hand wringing about the poor sdc being left behind is rubbish in most cases. I know some dads are genuinely awful when it comes to 'first' dc but most try their best & many do so to the detriment of their 'second' dc which is also a rotten way to behave.
Intact families don't always go away together & that should be same for blended ones!

My siblings never got foreign holidays but I did because I was the youngest by a good few years & my parents finally had some money.
None of them felt hard done by because finances were explained to them.
I've said it before but all this hand wringing is doing is raising a generation of entitled snowflakes who expect everything from everyone & its ridiculous.

Ultimately, if kids don't care so much who they go with, there is always the option if finances can't extend, for the SM to go with their child without their dad, since ultimately, it's the holiday alone that matters, not who you are with. Surely it applies to all children and adults
So we are right back around again to pretending the younger child's parents have split up when they haven't, which doesn't benefit anyone and also actually overlooks the fact that none of this is actually 100% about the children - either set. The parents aren't there as reluctant childcare like teachers on a school trip, they are there to enjoy that time too.

Ultimately, if kids don't care so much who they go with, there is always the option if finances can't extend, for the SM to go with their child without their dad, since ultimately, it's the holiday alone that matters, not who you are with. Surely it applies to all children and adults?

I personally do think it matters who you go with, not that kids wouldn't love a holiday with grandparents or whoever, but that it's preferable to go with a parent who they are more comfortable with. I don't think most of us are saying that kids would have as good a time with any old body as they would with their dad, but just that their holiday with their mum is not less enjoyable for them because their dad isn't there. Maybe it would be if their parents were together, but they will be used to being with each parent without the other.

I honestly don't think it's reasonable to expect a parent to go away solo with a toddler when they have a partner, and I genuinely can't understand how anyone thinks it's the same? It's a completely different scenario to children going away with one parent.

My DP's ex has recently taken my SCs away alone for the first time, they are 11 and 7 now. She has always taken them with her parents until now because holidays with young kids with no other adults for company or help are no fun at all for the adult. I would have thought most people faced with taking a toddler on holiday solo probably just wouldn't bother, since it's harder work than staying at home.

I think it's totally pointless for OP to be struggling through a 'holiday' with a toddler when her DH is sitting at home alone for the sake of it. And I actually genuinely think it has the potential to create worse feelings for SCs if they arrive at their dad's to be told that their SM has taken their younger sibling away alone for a holiday. That is far more blatantly leaving them out in my eyes.

Also, thinking of my own SCs (and I appreciate not all are the same), if they called my OH from their holiday and found out I had gone on holiday with my child and OH was left behind, their first thought would be of him sitting home alone while everyone else was on holidays having fun. I know 100% this would be my SS's very first thought. They are kind children and would hate the idea of this.

That’s not holiday specific though is it. You don’t have to go on holiday to have shared experiences and memories.

For you as well, holiday experience with your parents is important as they had less time for you the rest of the year.

Agree with this completely.

My DP's life absolutely revolves around his children when he has them. Everything is geared towards what they enjoy and what they want to do. They certainly have lots of shared experiences and memories with him, even if we never went on holiday again.

I also think this would largely continue if we had a joint child, because my SCs are not always around so my DP would want to cater for that. And also the age difference would make it difficult to do a lot together. He has rearranged his working hours to accommodate picking them up every other Friday which often leaves him working in to the evening through the rest of the week, so if we had a young child he would very likely be working past their bedtime, so not even like they're getting that time with him.

So a separate trip can often be an opportunity for the younger children in a blended family to be their dad's focus for once.

Also, thinking of my own SCs (and I appreciate not all are the same), if they called my OH from their holiday and found out I had gone on holiday with my child and OH was left behind, their first thought would be of him sitting home alone while everyone else was on holidays having fun. I know 100% this would be my SS's very first thought. They are kind children and would hate the idea of this.
@LittleMysSister that would have been my dc too. They'd have been horrified if they were away with me & heard their dad was sitting home alone so they wouldn't feel left out. They'd have thought he was being completely crazy.

And they'd have worried he'd fallen out with their sm!

@Magda72

Also, thinking of my own SCs (and I appreciate not all are the same), if they called my OH from their holiday and found out I had gone on holiday with my child and OH was left behind, their first thought would be of him sitting home alone while everyone else was on holidays having fun. I know 100% this would be my SS's very first thought. They are kind children and would hate the idea of this. *@LittleMysSister* that would have been my dc too. They'd have been horrified if they were away with me & heard their dad was sitting home alone so they wouldn't feel left out. They'd have thought he was being completely crazy.

Yeah exactly.

I appreciate not all children are like this but I think many who have been through a fairly well-managed break up would feel this way. I feel like short of me and DP taking any joint children to Disneyland without them - which obviously we would never do - I don't think there is much that would make them feel the way that people are worried about here, as they know 100% they are loved and are a huge part of our family.

But this is also because DP would be sure to prepare them and chat to them about why things might be happening without them - eg, it's all stuff for babies/toddlers or we will be using onsite childcare for our LO because it's actually a break for the 2 of us etc etc - and we would call them while there etc. It would never be like they'd just been sidelined and forgotten.

Calling them from a holiday destination surely is just rubbing in they aren’t there enjoying it too.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Calling them from a holiday destination surely is just rubbing in they aren’t there enjoying it too.

This is exactly what I mean though, my SCs genuinely don't feel this way. It is not a given that children always jump to the negative. They would never see it as rubbing it in or even feel it was unfair that they weren't there too.

Whenever they go away with their mum, they video call DP to show him their room and things they've bought, and tell him things they've done and what they're doing tomorrow. They send loads of pictures. He does the same and they enjoy seeing our room and talking about why it's different from/similar to places they've been with their mum or with us before. He calls them every day when at home so he wouldn't go on holiday and not call. They like to know what's going on and I actually think it does the opposite to what you've said and makes them feel included.

They do plenty with us and their mum, they just don't feel hard done by when they are not part of absolutely everything.

But again, this is why it's important to know the SCs in your own family, as Sofa says.

If there was a chance calling from our holiday would upset my SCs then DP wouldn't do it, but he knows that it's not the case and that if anything they'd be more upset he didn't call while away, if anything.

Maybe every other year or so, but excluding your SC every year isn't nice, surely they are part of the family and holidaying without them feels wrong, I'm sure your DH really misses enjoying a holiday with his children?

They do plenty with us and their mum, they just don't feel hard done by when they are not part of absolutely everything.

And that's down to the parenting. Because they shouldn't feel hard done by unless they are treated like kings, conditioned to think they rank above anyone else, especially other children. Unfortunately, many mothers are so scorned about their own single life when the father has moved on (yes, sometimes scorned for good reason) that they have to try and sabotage and disrupt the father and "new" family. So they can't resist the "daddy can take his new family away, but there's no money for you."

That's what creates children who think they're unloved. Sometimes it absolutely is the father. But I'd say it's the father, genuinely, 30% of the time. The other 70% it's just normal life, that the mother twists and sells it to the children to make them think they are victims. Culminating in this faux sadness as they churn out "now they've made up their own minds and don't want to see him"

Made their own minds up, my arse. Years of subtle manipulation, and it's the only outcome that was ever going to happen.

I've been a SM. And the mother was a fantastic woman. We weren't friends or anything like that, but I certainly admired her choices and conduct. The children lived well balanced lives, and that was down to us and her all getting on with our lives sensibly and respectfully. She had no bitterness, or obsession with using her children as pawns. And what lovely children there were. More than a decade on from that relationship, I'm still in touch with them, as they're lovely young adults.

Completely agree with this hand wringing mentality being very motive driven, and very bad for the children.