Going on holiday

[LuckyGrace]

We can never afford to go away during the school holidays all of us together. We have one DC under school age and my husband has 2 older DC.

Are we unreasonable to go away when DSC are away with their mother? The past few years we have done this, when we know when DSC go away, we will book something for the same week so contact isn't affected.

By the way, I would be very disappointed if my dad's will did split things equally because that's what I expect and believe to be fair. Money means little. Knowing you are loved and valued equally is priceless.

How about your children understanding how lucky they are to live with both their parents, to enjoy seeing them every day, and share only one home with only one set of rules, and therefore can appreciate that spending a less fancy holiday, so that these children get to share special moments with their dad too is more than a fair compromise
Because it's unrealistic to ask a much younger child to understand how lucky they are to live with dad instead of older kids to understand that everyone is only getting one holiday?
Especially if when they are older they get to sit in their tents and enjoy their siblings talk about the fabulous holiday they may have just enjoyed with their mum.

I don't want my kid to think they are lucky to have us both living together. I want them to take us for granted.

Inheritance is so different to holidays it's pointless going there.
Dad in 30 years has 60k to leave so each child gets 20k. All well and good. No practical reason why he shouldn't or can't do that.
Dad today has £500 holiday budget so he can either spend going on holiday with wife and youngest this year or they don't go this year at all so he has £1k to spend next year and take all kids. His older kids are getting a holiday regardless.

I think its fine for you to go on holiday without the DSC OP. Part of being in a blended family is learning you don't all do everything together.

A decision would have to be made, and we would do our best to ensure DSS either understood, or wasn't impacted at all. He's never really been aware of what we do when he isn't around

So no compromise at all on your part?

You can’t somehow make it that a child doesn’t know. He might be young enough to be unaware of all that goes on in his dad’s house now but that won’t always be the case. You can’t know what might be said to him by mum or other family members. Or what he might inadvertently over hear. And you can’t get him away from the fact that his friend went on holiday with both separated mum and dad over the summer. These things mess with long term security and mental health and yet are easily dismissed as so insignificant the child won’t even know?

You should try being the parent of a child who’s father favours the new family. They know exactly what’s going on.

@Getawaywithit

A decision would have to be made, and we would do our best to ensure DSS either understood, or wasn't impacted at all. He's never really been aware of what we do when he isn't around

So no compromise at all on your part?

You can’t somehow make it that a child doesn’t know. He might be young enough to be unaware of all that goes on in his dad’s house now but that won’t always be the case. You can’t know what might be said to him by mum or other family members. Or what he might inadvertently over hear. And you can’t get him away from the fact that his friend went on holiday with both separated mum and dad over the summer. These things mess with long term security and mental health and yet are easily dismissed as so insignificant the child won’t even know?

You should try being the parent of a child who’s father favours the new family. They know exactly what’s going on.

Not no compromise, no, the compromise is that most of the time he does come on things we do. If we could afford a holiday abroad, it wouldn't be including a load of luxuries that could be done away with, so no there would be no way of compromising on that really.

I assure you, we can easily make it so DSS doesn't know. He is incredibly oblivious, and isn't really interested in what we get up to. It doesn't occur to him that life continues or is worth talking about when he wasn't there. His mum wouldn't know to tell him (why would she?) and he doesn't have any peers with seperated parents to compare his experiences with.

If it got to the point where he would likely know and would likely be upset, then plans would be different. That's the point. We're not talking about every year. But certainly this could currently be done in a way that doesn't impact or upset him, before toddler DD is at school and whilst he is still young and oblivious.

A lot of people, and your comment here is a prime example, think things are one size fits all when it comes to SC. The truth is that my DSS is not some hyper aware genius picking up on all the small things going on around him. He's also, to his credit, not as inclined to be upset about these things as people assume is invariably the case on here. We all know our own children and make decisions accordingly.

How about your children understanding how lucky they are to live with both their parents, to enjoy seeing them every day, and share only one home with only one set of rules, and therefore can appreciate that spending a less fancy holiday, so that these children get to share special moments with their dad too is more than a fair compromise

Really? Kids thinking they are lucky to have parents still together? Think my stepkids would rather have the holidays/iphones/cars lifestyle they have with their mum and stepdad than than our lifestyle.

It is possible for separated parents to give their child a reasonable lifestyle without them feeling nothing can make up for their parents separation. Why teach them that their siblings are so lucky having something they can’t. No wonder kids end up with huge resentments. They should be grateful for what they do have.

I grew up in a single parent household. I remember a classmate complaining about seeing her dad, and I thought she should think herself lucky she had a dad to see.

It’s all relative. Are kids who live in poverty but have both parents living together “luckier” than those growing up in comfort but with the horrors of two sets of rules and only one fancy holiday?

I don't want my kid to think they are lucky to have us both living together. I want them to take us for granted
Absolutely, just as most mums don't want their kids to be told they should feel lucky that they are privileged because they get to go on more holidays. They want their kids to take for granted that their dad wouldn't favour some of his kids over the others.

Inheritance is so different to holidays it's pointless going there
The principle of fairness amongst siblings is exactly the same, but it's no surprise some SMs would opt not to see it.

@Youseethethingis

How about your children understanding how lucky they are to live with both their parents, to enjoy seeing them every day, and share only one home with only one set of rules, and therefore can appreciate that spending a less fancy holiday, so that these children get to share special moments with their dad too is more than a fair compromise Because it's unrealistic to ask a much younger child to understand how lucky they are to live with dad instead of older kids to understand that everyone is only getting one holiday? Especially if when they are older they get to sit in their tents and enjoy their siblings talk about the fabulous holiday they may have just enjoyed with their mum.

That's an interesting one. My sons have different Dads, boys are 12 and 17. As I said up thread, it's been a difficult time for DS1 and his Dad and they now have a minimal relationship (he was always treated like an outsider). Emotionally it's been very tough on DS1, I covered up as much as I could, but he knew was was going on with his Dad, knew he was missing out. Yes he had nice stuff with us (probably nicer than he'd have with his Dad as we have more available money), but he still felt like he wasn't as valued - young children don't understand about money, to him it was that he wasn't as important as they were to their joint Dad. Now as an almost adult, he has more of an understanding, but the damage is done. His Dad handled it badly and you can't go back on that.

His younger brother has watched him have a few bits more than him - DS went on one holiday with his Dad's family, which meant he got two that year, he gets more Christmas presents than DS2 because I don't cut down what we buy for DS1 as presents are never a guarantee. We've had a lot of emotional issues with DS1- angry outburst, bed wetting , upset over wanting to see his Dad/not wanting to see him etc. There was no outward abuse, his Dad just moved on and had a new family who he very openly prioritised (he was very open about that).
DS2 has grown up witnessing that, and a year or so ago told me how grateful he is that his parents are together so he doesn't have to live like his brother . Children aren't stupid, well mine certainly aren't!

I didn't have an expectation for DS's Dad to include him in everything, I didn't have an expectation that the other children had sub standard holidays to fit DS in all of the time, but he was never included - as I say, he's had one holiday with them in 17 years.

Dad in 30 years has 60k to leave so each child gets 20k. All well and good. No practical reason why he shouldn't or can't do that. Dad today has £500 holiday budget so he can either spend going on holiday with wife and youngest this year or they don't go this year at all so he has £1k to spend next year and take all kids. His older kids are getting a holiday regardless
By the way, I totally agree with you. This is exactly what dad should do, but a number of SMs here seem to think that it's perfectly acceptable for dad to enjoy a holiday with youngest kids only because his eldest already have holidays with their mum or did with their dad when they were younger. It seems that what is fair is that when all kids come to 18yo, they have had relatively the same number of holidays in their youth.

So either you agree with the concept in every circumstances or not at all. I agree with the not at all.

If it got to the point where he would likely know and would likely be upset, then plans would be different. That's the point. We're not talking about every year. But certainly this could currently be done in a way that doesn't impact or upset him, before toddler DD is at school and whilst he is still young and oblivious
In this scenario, I don't think it's as much an issue. He doesn't know, it's not every year. That's absolutely fine. It becomes an issue when they do know/will definitely found out, which really is the moment the youngest can talk, as they are unlikely not to let something slip.

The principle of fairness amongst siblings is exactly the same, but it's no surprise some SMs would opt not to see it.

But the principle of fairness amongst spouses, and of the dad himself's quality of life, is not. The parallel also fails to take into consideration whether the father did have those experiences with his first children and their mother before separating (similar, I suppose, to if he gave them a lump sum of inheritance early) or if the holiday is being funded by the step mum rather than him. In the case of inheritance, the latter would not reasonably result in a direct split because it isn't dad's money.

Some people opt not to see that "fairness" and "the same" are not the same, and that "the same" can not be achieved for children with different homes and families. No matter what you change to make it "the same" it becomes "not the same" somewhere else. Sometimes it is "not the same" in a way which could be argued as "fair" ie. Everyone gets one holiday, but someone gets one with dad, too. Other times it is "not the same" in a way that could be argued as "unnfair" ie. Someone's been disinherited by their Dad.
People will see what they want to see.

I think we don't have enough info from OP to know the true situation or whether it's reasonable.

OP is saying they can't afford it, so I wouldn't assume that there are levels of luxury that they could climb down in order to accommodate everyone. To me, that indicates that they are already looking at the cheapest options available.

I think we'd also need to have more info on the general situation with the SCs. Do they do loads of things together through the year? Are they prioritised in other ways at times? What is the situation regarding the younger child, are they often left at home with mum while dad is doing things with his older children so this holiday could be time for dad to focus on doing things with them?

There is lots of info which could inform whether this is more or less reasonable. For example, if OP's DH doesn't do much with his older two through the year and tends to leave them out in favour of his younger child, then it is totally unreasonable for him to not even include them in a holiday. But if he is a great dad through the year, does loads with them, spends lots of time with them but genuinely just can't afford to take a holiday with them at this point in time, then I wouldn't say that makes him a bad dad and that this plan is unacceptable at all.

@howtodealwithit, I agree. My sister did say to me that looking back, she did feel a bit sorry for me and did feel lucky that she didn't have to deal with different households, different parenting, activities I couldn't do because I had to travel to them eow. I often had to attend events she participated in whilst I wasn't able to sign up to these activities because I couldn't do them every weekends.

We were and continue to be close because my dad ensure he was as fair as he could be and my SM knew not to challenge him. He would never have agreed for them to go on holiday without me. He was a devoted dad and this is why we remained very close in adulthood.

In this scenario, I don't think it's as much an issue. He doesn't know, it's not every year. That's absolutely fine. It becomes an issue when they do know/will definitely found out, which really is the moment the youngest can talk, as they are unlikely not to let something slip.

I agree, but then this is why the pre school, cheaper term time holidays for the younger children is such a core part of the debate. My DD can talk but she doesn't really describe things we have done to DSS, it's not how she thinks or speaks.

Incidentally, the only holidays we have been on since she was born have been paid for/with my parents, in the UK, and have not included DSS. So far, DSS has not been impacted by them at all. One such trip is happening quite soon so if when we get back, DD regales DSS with tales of what we've up to and it upsets him, things might change going forward. I doubt it though as DSS is aware DD has a relationship with my side of the family similar to the one he has with his mum's and has never struggled with it. It's all about knowing the children involved and weighing things up, I think.

@LittleMysSister

I think we don't have enough info from OP to know the true situation or whether it's reasonable.

OP is saying they can't afford it, so I wouldn't assume that there are levels of luxury that they could climb down in order to accommodate everyone. To me, that indicates that they are already looking at the cheapest options available.

I think we'd also need to have more info on the general situation with the SCs. Do they do loads of things together through the year? Are they prioritised in other ways at times? What is the situation regarding the younger child, are they often left at home with mum while dad is doing things with his older children so this holiday could be time for dad to focus on doing things with them?

There is lots of info which could inform whether this is more or less reasonable. For example, if OP's DH doesn't do much with his older two through the year and tends to leave them out in favour of his younger child, then it is totally unreasonable for him to not even include them in a holiday. But if he is a great dad through the year, does loads with them, spends lots of time with them but genuinely just can't afford to take a holiday with them at this point in time, then I wouldn't say that makes him a bad dad and that this plan is unacceptable at all.

Excellent comment, I agree completely.

DS2 has grown up witnessing that, and a year or so ago told me how grateful he is that his parents are together so he doesn't have to live like his brother sad. Children aren't stupid, well mine certainly aren't!
My DH was the child whose dad never took him away after he had more children. I was particularly grateful as a child for my parents happy marriage, it was just my rock solid reality similar to a sunrise. I am so grateful as an adult for the childhood I had and I make sure my parents know it.
I still don't expect my toddler to be grateful. I am hopeful be that he will have what I had and I will be doing alot of sucking it up and compromising through the years to make sure that happens. I know life can't be as if DH does not have a child. He does and I'm grateful for her and the relationship she has with DS. I have no intentions of deliberately leaving her out of anything.
But. But. But. I also don't think, if circumstances were to dictate it, that it's right to stop him from accessing holidays abroad or with dad while he's young enough to go cheaply. Then it's not the same as DSD as she got to enjoy this when she was his age...

I also think if OP and her DH weren't bothered about SC's feelings they'd be taking the opportunity they currently have to go away in term time.

But they are not, because that would impact on the SC's time with their dad. They are paying more in order to go at a time when it will not disrupt the SCs at all, and when they are already away having fun themselves.

I don't think that indicates a rubbish dad who doesn't value his older children as much.

@Youseethethingis

DS2 has grown up witnessing that, and a year or so ago told me how grateful he is that his parents are together so he doesn't have to live like his brother sad. Children aren't stupid, well mine certainly aren't! My DH was the child whose dad never took him away after he had more children. I was particularly grateful as a child for my parents happy marriage, it was just my rock solid reality similar to a sunrise. I am so grateful as an adult for the childhood I had and I make sure my parents know it. I still don't expect my toddler to be grateful. I am hopeful be that he will have what I had and I will be doing alot of sucking it up and compromising through the years to make sure that happens. I know life can't be as if DH does not have a child. He does and I'm grateful for her and the relationship she has with DS. I have no intentions of deliberately leaving her out of anything. But. But. But. I also don't think, if circumstances were to dictate it, that it's right to stop him from accessing holidays abroad or with dad while he's young enough to go cheaply. Then it's not the same as DSD as she got to enjoy this when she was his age...

Exactly, although in DS's case he has never had the early opportunities pre separation as that happened when he was a young baby.

What made DS's case worse was that his Dads wife (now separated) also had a son from a previous relationship who was similar age to DS. So DS not only had to deal with younger siblings, but also his Dad going on holiday/living with his step son and not him. Now before anyone jumps on me, I'm not saying he shouldn't have gone, I'm not saying that his Mum didn't pay for him etc ( as that's likely the case I imagine), but to a young child they have no concept of that. His only understanding was that his Dad had remarried, had a child living with him who wasn't his child and two subsequent children. Was he jealous? Of course he was. That's a difficult thing to understand at a young age. We tried to support him, but there's only so much you can say and do. His Dad handled it crappily which made it a lot worse.

Now I think and hope DS's case is unusual, I know some very happy children with separated parents, but I hate reading comments like step children have to accept they are from broken homes, They don't know what happens when they are not here etc. They do, or at least DS did, and the damage is done. His Dad is an utter knob though, so I'm hoping there aren't many like his around!

Now I think and hope DS's case is unusual, I know some very happy children with separated parents, but I hate reading comments like step children have to accept they are from broken homes, They don't know what happens when they are not here etc. They do, or at least DS did, and the damage is done. His Dad is an utter knob though, so I'm hoping there aren't many like his around!

I know people are sceptical when you say the DSC doesn't know what goes on, but honestly I think you'd have to meet my DSS to get why I am saying that. He has ADHD, his concentration is very poor. He genuinely is very oblivious to things going on around him.

At the same time, contrary to your ex, my DP is very attentive to him when he is here, and spends a lot of time talking to him about how much he loves and values him. If anything, DSS has an overly large sense of self importance. He regular talks about how hard it must be for mum/dad coping without him.

howtodealwithit I agree, some things can be harder for some children to understand/accept and it needs to be handled so sensitively by the parent in question. I am sorry your ex didn't do that for your son :(

As for 'stepchildren have to accept they are from separated families' I don't think (I hope!) people mean it as brutally as it sounds. I think it's more that there are some things which can never be exactly the same for them/may be difficult to handle. Parents need to put in effort to ensure their children understand that this is just the nature of having separated parents and is certainly not an indication that their mum/dad doesn't love them or cares more about his younger children than them.

For example, things like days out which might happen when they are with their other parent, it's just not realistic for a family with children (or without tbh) to not do anything fun except when their SCs are with them. And that is something I'd expect a good parent to help a child understand and work through. Again though, I am talking about situations where the SCs are not left out constantly or younger children always prioritised over them, but situations where SCs have good parents who love and care about them, do lots of things with them, but also have other children in the mix so will likely end up doing child-friendly things when SCs aren't around too.

Especially if when they are older they get to sit in their tents and enjoy their siblings talk about the fabulous holiday they may have just enjoyed with their mum
that might be upsetting to them, but I would expect not half as upsetting as sitting in their tent and their siblings talking about the fab time they had with their joint father.

that might be upsetting to them, but I would expect not half as upsetting as sitting in their tent and their siblings talking about the fab time they had with their joint father
If the SC are on holiday with their mother at the same time then nobody need sit in a tent and they can all talk about their nice holidays when they get home.