Going on holiday

[LuckyGrace]

We can never afford to go away during the school holidays all of us together. We have one DC under school age and my husband has 2 older DC.

Are we unreasonable to go away when DSC are away with their mother? The past few years we have done this, when we know when DSC go away, we will book something for the same week so contact isn't affected.

The comment was a dig at me, trying to blame me for my children’s poor relationship with their father. My ex signed child up for music classes at the school I worked at. He knew I couldn’t afford it but also knew that I would end up paying because of my job. Child attended less than half the lessons because she wasn’t that in to it.

I mention my ex’s salary because it is clear that he can afford to take his children on holiday but chooses not to. He can afford maintenance but uses self employment to avoid it. He seems to spend a significant amount of time telling our children now useless I am, Bit still, my fault the kids are fed up with him.

@Getawaywithit

And this mentality, unsurprisingly turns out to be part of a situation where the children don't have a good relationship with their dad. But, of course, this is zero to do with their mum. It's all the dad

Well quite. I mean why would a man earning £100k plus ever take his kids on holiday, let alone pay any maintenance for them? Why would he give them £2 for a forgotten busfare or a sandwich for lunch instead of saying ‘I’m not giving you a penny, that’s your mother’s job’? Why would he sign up the kids for music classes and then refuse to pay for them?why would he and step mum continually tell his children that their mother is ‘stupid and lazy’ when step mum doesn’t bother working and mum’s out doing a full time professional job?

Must all be mum, eh? Never dad’s fault his kids can’t be bothered with him.

We get it, your ex is a dick but it's not at all comparable with ops situation. The fact the sm doesn't work though is none of your business.

I said your ex, so their dad, no?
Yes, sorry, ex. No, I'm gutted that their relationship is bad, really gutted. I tried to so hard. I never took him to csa when he never paid maintenance. He stopped paying after 3 months. I didn't because I knew he would take out on the kids, crying that he couldn't do anything with them because of the maintenance he had to pay, even though he still did very little with him. I drove them to him every saturdays and then picked them up, 2h drive, at my cost of course, so they could continue to see him regularly, because he wouldn't have bothered otherwise. I went so much above what I needed to do because 1/ I wanted them to have the relationship I developed with my separated dad, and 2/ I didn't want them to ever asked me why I didn't do more. It didn't take long after teenagehood for them to see him for who he is. When he asked to talk to discuss why they didn't want to see him, I agreed to meet up with him, tried to explain to him yet one more time that he just took them for granted. He refused to listen, as he always had. It's never his fault. I still once in a while ask them when they are going to contact him, and they say later. You couldn't be further from the truth that I'm happy about the situation. Sadly, I did see it coming, helplessly. His parents fully agree with me, they saw it coming too and told him but he never listened and just focused on his new family.

Gaaaaargh that's a completely different scenario
It isn't a different scenario when posters say that what matter is that all kids should have the same number of holiday in total to make it fair.

It's really not me who has double standards. My view is that kids should all get the same from their dad regardless of what they get elsewhere. If the elder kids get holidays with their mum, it's irrelevant. If the younger kids get nice holidays with their mum alone, or grand parents, it's irrelevant. There will almost always be one or the other that together get more, it's inevitable. What isn't inevitable is how much quality time they spend all with their dad.

That's not double standards.

If my partner was to feel aggrieved by it, then he can stay at home. In which universe are so many posters thinking that SM’s have to make this level of sacrifice?
But no one has says this. This situation is not about a dilemma for the SM but a dilemma for her OH, who ultimately is stuck in between. HE should want to spend all his holiday with all his children. The SM certainly doesn't. We totally agree, in this case, the SM should be free to take her kids away whilst dad stays home, however, SMs have insisted this is unreasonable because she is entitled to spend her holiday with her husband too.

So it all comes down to dad and what he decides to do.

But no one has says this. This situation is not about a dilemma for the SM but a dilemma for her OH, who ultimately is stuck in between. HE should want to spend all his holiday with all his children. The SM certainly doesn't. We totally agree, in this case, the SM should be free to take her kids away whilst dad stays home, however, SMs have insisted this is unreasonable because she is entitled to spend her holiday with her husband too.

Hmmm but that is not quite it is it. The question is whether he should rather have no holiday, than spend one with his wife and youngest child without the eldest. Whether he would rather not go at all if he couldn't take his eldest.

More than 300 posts and the OP hasn't returned. This seems like someone starting a thread for the fun if it, knowing it will create a debate and that its not the best idea.

Added to that, it's her first post on MN. They've gone one away excluding SC in previous years, so why is it an issue worthy of a thread now.

Having said that each of the parties in a scenario like this will have their feelings on it.

SM - it's fine for her. No problem.

SC - Never going on holiday with dad,
but seeing him go with his
other child as unfair and
unequal treatment by their dad.

DAD - Could feel guilty about it and be
reluctant to go. Or could be fine
and go as he has done in
previous years. It all depends on
what kind of man he is.

Your appear to have forgotten the resident child in you list of feelings.

@TwinsandTrifle

Your appear to have forgotten the resident child in you list of feelings.

Yes I thought that but was biting my tongue.

@TwinsandTrifle

Your appear to have forgotten the resident child in you list of feelings.

As people so often do!

And yes, it is a completely different scenario mentioned before. One in which the SC theoretically weren't getting any holiday with their mother either. Totally different then, for one child to holiday whilst the other never does.

That wouldn't be ok. Unless of course it's the resident child, whilst the others go away.

This whole thread is driven by first wives with dickhead ex's projecting that on to OP and her perfectly reasonable behaviour. And if they project like that into reasonable behaviour, you have to query how much of the situation they have finally ended up in, has become that way because of their entitled attitude for the last however many years, and how much of a dickhead the father really was, to start with anywya. If I pulled this endlessly on my ex, they'd come to a point where he'd say enough is enough and he would rather do nothing than endure my continual crap because he's got equally important people in his lives that I'm affecting. Basically he'd eventually get sick of my shit and I'd have ruined it for my DS too.

My ex-ex partner (a long time ago) was a lovely guy. But the ex couldn't bear that he'd moved on. Demanded the ridiculous under the guise that he was a bad father if he didn't meet her demands, and she was only thinking of the children. It was nothing to do with the children. After a long couple of years, he stood up to her. And withdrew all communication but the bare minimum, just to avoid her and her vitriol, that was causing him anxiety, depression, and arguments with me and his friends, as we all bore the brunt of his frustrations. Her children lost out. Her behaviour was so unbearable she gave him no choice. I have no doubt that she still tells people what a useless father who doesn't care about his children he is.

Some men, are just dickheads. Equally, some women are but think they can do as they please because they control his children, so enjoy disrupting and ruining what they can from that position of power. Then cry about being the victim when the ability to abuse their power gets shut down.

Hmmm but that is not quite it is it. The question is whether he should rather have no holiday, than spend one with his wife and youngest child without the eldest. Whether he would rather not go at all if he couldn't take his eldest
We are back to the every other year! SM and child goes one year, they all go the nexxt. Or prioritising, which many families do. I fail to believe that a dad who is genuinely gutted that he can't go on holiday with his elder kid can't manage to make changes to his life to ensure that he doesn't have to make that choice.

We are back to the matter of circumstances. As you say, there is a difference between a dad going away with his family and 4yo to a kid themed holiday when he has previously taken his eldest to a teenage minded place and taking the 10yo to Florida with wife, but leaving his 12yo when the 12yo has never gone.

I think we all agree that it is an individual matter. The only thing that made me wonder about OP is the mention that it had been more than 2 years since taking the eldest and asking about yet another year, so we know that it is a common theme not to take the elder kids.

That wouldn't be ok. Unless of course it's the resident child, whilst the others go away
Who said that? Certainly not me. I think some SMs are opting to read that they want to read!

This whole thread is driven by first wives with dickhead ex's projecting that on to OP and her perfectly reasonable behaviour
Ha the good old projecting from the ex wives!!! Out of curiosity, how can you be so sure the OP's behaviour is so reasonable when they have said so little?

That's difficult because we don't know what's happened before.

We only know resident kid is under school age, and two SC are school age.

This could be a 3yr old and a 5 and 7yr old. Or a 2yr old and a 9 and 12yr old.

The fact that it's been more than two years since they took the eldest on holiday (I can't remember reading this but just going on what PP has put) is almost certainly down to covid. We've been trying to get away since 2019 and been thwarted every time. Did they go the year before that? Who knows. Was the resident child even born then, so one less ticket to find the money for? Who knows?

Not taking the SC from the information we have is not a common theme at all.

We are back to the every other year! SM and child goes one year, they all go the nexxt. Or prioritising, which many families do. I fail to believe that a dad who is genuinely gutted that he can't go on holiday with his elder kid can't manage to make changes to his life to ensure that he doesn't have to make that choice.

I think the idea that the dad should get zero joy from a holiday without his elder kids, and just be there weeping because they aren't there, is a little unrealistic. My DP, as a NRP, is perfectly used to his son not being there, so a holiday without him wouldn't feel gutting.

I do agree with your comment about it being down to individual circumstances. We are all really just batting back and forth saying "what about this", "what about this" etc. Nonetheless... I can still see holes in both the things you've said above. For one, as mentioned a few times, the dynamic could easily be such where the dad feels he owes his youngest child and wife time without the SC. That usually occurs when the SC need all of his attention when they are there. In that circumstance, his wife would never be getting a holiday where she wasn't doing all the care for their youngest child and that's just not really on.

And in terms of making changes to ensure he doesn't have to have to make that choice, it may not be as simple as that financially. Money is often joint, so it could well be that SM and youngest DC going one year takes away the potential for him to go the following year with everybody. Upon entering a new relationship, his ability to make decisions purely with his eldest kids in mind becomes much more complicated by the conflicting needs of others in the family and the fact they're feeding from the same pot financially.

We are back to the every other year! SM and child goes one year, they all go the nexxt. Or prioritising, which many families do. I fail to believe that a dad who is genuinely gutted that he can't go on holiday with his elder kid can't manage to make changes to his life to ensure that he doesn't have to make that choice.

But again, where is the 'holiday' part of this for the SM if she is taking a pre-schooler away alone, without her husband? That is just harder work than staying home.

Also they are prioritising, they are prioritising their household getting a holiday at the least impactful time for the older children.

I think the idea that the dad should get zero joy from a holiday without his elder kids, and just be there weeping because they aren't there, is a little unrealistic. My DP, as a NRP, is perfectly used to his son not being there, so a holiday without him wouldn't feel gutting.

I think you're spot on. I think the mothers of those children use this faux excuse, to mask what they are actually fuming about, which is this insignificant resident child and nuisance new wife having any experience that their more important first children don't.

They've got their noses so put out of joint that his wife and child are where they felt they should always have the right to be, they act like merry hell over things like this. It's so transparently dressed up as the "children's feelings"

Of course their solution is for the wife to act like a single mother. They are fuming that they are one, so they project this ridiculous "solution" (as if it would ever happen) on to the woman who has the audacity to be in a happy relationship. I'm stuck as a single mother, so you can be too. And the funniest bit is watching the attempt at justifying how sitting at home with none of his children, as they all have their single mum holidays, it's what a good father would do. Because, it's all about the SC feelings. Do they honestly think anyone falls for this show?

We are back to the every other year! SM and child goes one year, they all go the nexxt. Or prioritising, which many families do. I fail to believe that a dad who is genuinely gutted that he can't go on holiday with his elder kid can't manage to make changes to his life to ensure that he doesn't have to make that choice.
I think being gutted because one child is not coming on holiday is extreme & childish.
I have often taken various dc away & left others behind, as has exh. This has often been for financial reasons which were explained to dc who totally got it.
I'd be a bit disappointed in myself if my being 'gutted' that one had to stay at home caused me to be miserable while away &/or made me change my otherwise fully functional life!

So dad never goes on holiday with his own kids. Yep great. Hope dad and kids feel ok with that sad situation.

@Magda72

Completely. We're taking DTwins away specifically when elder DS is on a residential school trip, because we'll have a better time as DS will be a bored pain in the ass, as we sit in the baby splash pools all day and have to got back to the room twice a day for their naps, and bed by 7.

DS knows this. And couldn't give a rat's arse as he'll be having a great time with other people. He's not missed out because we took two children and not him. There's no brattish "but they got a week with mummy and daddy that I didn't". That's right. They did. And because of how we've explained it to him, he thinks it's great. And it's the right decision for everyone. No stuck with babies, early bed times, and he won't even notice we've gone because he's off having a great time at the same time. If he wasn't off on holiday at the same time, and we just buggered off whilst he carried on (at grandparents, say) with the mundane, while we were off sunning ourselves, that's very different. And specifically why OP, and we, are choosing the same time as the children are on another holiday.

What kind of arse would you have to be, to whisper in his ear "Oh, they've got money for a holiday with DTwins, but not you. A holiday without them doesn't count so ignore the one you'll be on, it only matters what the other children get and you dont. You're not equal are you, so if you don't get a holiday where they leave DTwins behind, DTwins must be the favourites."

If I did that enough, spiteful and manipulative as it is, DS is probably still young enough that the message I was sending to him would start to sink in.

Id like to take advantage of going away whenever we like whilst our children aren't at school rather than fork out double and go to a packed out place during the school holidays because 'its not fair on SD' who gets double presents / parties on birthdays / Christmas etc , has had countless special days with her Dad.

Its what I'm going to have to just deal with though...unless I go away just me and my 2 without their dad which its incredibly sad. I used to go away with my mum and not my 2 older sisters quite a bit when growing up.

You're lucky your husband is cool with going away without them, wish mine was