Going on holiday

[LuckyGrace]

We can never afford to go away during the school holidays all of us together. We have one DC under school age and my husband has 2 older DC.

Are we unreasonable to go away when DSC are away with their mother? The past few years we have done this, when we know when DSC go away, we will book something for the same week so contact isn't affected.

Sofa, you insist that you don't know any kids who care when their father go away on holidays without them. I don't know how many separated children or adults who were in this situation, but I got to know many in my life (as a child of separated parents myself, and then befriending single parents, and now with older children with friends whose parents separated), and all that I know to whom it happened have been affected one way or the other. Again, we are not talking about a long weekend away, or even a standard week away in their life, but fathers who went away every year without them, or on very exotic/fun holidays without them, only taking them on cheap holidays. This was usually only one example of how they dad showed them that they were low on his priority list compared to the new family.

That's not exactly what I meant, what I said was that of the children I have known (not specifically children with seperated parents discussing holidays), if they had missed out on something, a day trip or something of that kind, it would be missing out on the THING that upset them, not missing out on time with the people that went. They're generally focused on the material side of things.

But you're right, I have never knowingly met anyone in your above scenario. It is the extreme end of the scale, again, though. You're talking about dad's that go away every year without the older kids and neglect them emotionally in multiple other ways, none of which is something I would defend.

@BigGooseyLucy

If it's a money issue Is it at all possible that the older children's mother give back the children's maintenance money for the week or however long the older children would be on holiday for to help pay for food and or flights (as she won't be looking after the children at that time, or feeding them etc) ?

I think her argument would be that she still has to pay the rent/mortgage even when they aren't there.

Presumably if the Dad was a brilliant Dad before the split, the ex would have fought like a tiger to avoid breaking up. It might even be enough to grit your teeth for with casual infidelity. (Just saying, not laying down any rules).

If that wasn't so, why would splitting up change him in a hurry? He might slowly grow into parenting with the 50/50, but it wouldn't be overnight and absolutely no guarantees. Far more likely he chucks the kids at the nearest available woman and carries on in the same vein. Ending up with angry kids, angry ex and growling, fuming, and then exploding new woman!

BigGooseyLucy
If it's a money issue Is it at all possible that the older children's mother give back the children's maintenance money for the week or however long the older children would be on holiday for to help pay for food and or flights (as she won't be looking after the children at that time, or feeding them etc) ? 
This made me laugh out loud.

If we'd have asked dps ex that I think she would have burst into flames. She didn't even give ds any spending money let alone anything else for "extra" time we had him.

Aw no way that's terrible of dps ex ! I suppose it is a long shot suggestion mind

@SpaceshiptoMars in my DH's situation it was the exwife who strayed/caused the relationship to break down and puts barriers in the way to him being there for them.

@peboh

They prioritise their new family over their other children.

Let me rewrite that for you. As they did when they were with your Mother, they prioritise themselves over any of their children, and almost certainly the new woman as well.

I know it's hard to see those photos. But did you ever ask him who was paying for those holidays? Who was paying the mortgage/rent on the house he was now living in? Don't just assume he was paying for the new family instead of you - he might not have been paying for either family. Seriously. Read around on this forum.

@aaaaah

Ooops, sorry, I meant to @vivainsomnia with that one!

@BigGooseyLucy

If it's a money issue Is it at all possible that the older children's mother give back the children's maintenance money for the week or however long the older children would be on holiday for to help pay for food and or flights (as she won't be looking after the children at that time, or feeding them etc) ?

Normally if you go through the CMS then maintenance is calculated based on how many nights NRP has the child, so would they not reduce the payment yearly to account for the holiday? So RP already gets less due to usual contact and holidays? I might be wrong though, it's been a long time since I dealt with CMS!

@SpaceshiptoMars ahh that makes sense!

@howtodealwithit
Ahh I see what you mean. I'm just thinking maintenance is a percentage of the NRPs wage so for all we know the ex could be getting something like £50 a month or £5000 a month, so adjusting it for a week so the older children could go on holiday with their dad. This would be something i would do for sure. It was a long shot suggestion

@TwinsandTrifle

What if the SCs never got to go with mum or her family.

Gaaaaargh that's a completely different scenario. The whole point is that they are not going to give it a second thought because they're on holiday with their mother at the exactly the same time.

OPs thread is not "SC have never had a holiday. It's cheaper for us not to take them, so we won't. That's ok, yeah?"

This is it exactly.

There are are many different scenarios. Some, like your ex vivainsomnia, where not taking your children on holiday is an indication of wider neglect and disregard by their dad in favour of the 'new' family, and then others where a decision is made about a holiday (amongst many other things) by a loving father who is trying to do his best by everyone with the resources he has to hand. In these cases, the holiday will not be the defining characteristic of his relationship with his children.

I'd say the latter is OP's situation, given they are choosing to pay more to go away when SCs are in order to have the smallest impact and no change to contact at all.

It's all on a case-by-case basis, and I don't think we can say it's always a good or bad decision, by any means.

A good, loving parent can make difficult decisions but still ensure their children are still secure and loved, and fussed over and treated. It doesn't all hinge on a holiday.

[quote BigGooseyLucy]@howtodealwithit
Ahh I see what you mean. I'm just thinking maintenance is a percentage of the NRPs wage so for all we know the ex could be getting something like £50 a month or £5000 a month, so adjusting it for a week so the older children could go on holiday with their dad. This would be something i would do for sure. It was a long shot suggestion [/quote]
Yeah I would too, if my ex had ever suggested it. It meant more to me to ensure that DS had that time, but I could afford it - some RP's wouldn't be able to. I did other things, like offered a maintenance break when he couldn't afford the petrol to see DS - quickly stopped that though when I realised he could afford a lot else...!

Us "first wife brigade" members aren't all total witches...

This thread leaves me speechless tbh.
If I was to have a child with my partner (never happening precisely for the multitude of issues on here), I would take said child on holiday when I wished. I would categorically not do the following (based on threads here over the years)

1. not take my child on a lovely holiday paid for by my family because my SC are not invited
2. not take my child on holiday outside of term time because my Sc cannot attend
3. compromise my holidays with my children because my stepchildren cannot attend.

If my partner was to feel aggrieved by it, then he can stay at home. In which universe are so many posters thinking that SM’s have to make this level of sacrifice?

Bonkers. Create memories with your children, that is the priority.

Honestly. And people wonder why so many people come here with issues. The amount of entitlement is staggering.

Create memories with your children, that is the priority. exactly. When I'm dead and buried I want my child to have the lovely memories like I have of my own parents.

@aaaaah

Create memories with your children, that is the priority. exactly. When I'm dead and buried I want my child to have the lovely memories like I have of my own parents.

Exactly, and that hopefully applies to most RP's too. We all want the best for our children

But you can't control anyone elses actions in that regard, only your own.

Presumably if the Dad was a brilliant Dad before the split, the ex would have fought like a tiger to avoid breaking up. It might even be enough to grit your teeth for with casual infidelity. (Just saying, not laying down any rules)

Lol. You can’t be serious. Nobody in their right mind thinks that dad not taking his kids on holiday is mum’s fault for not fighting hard enough for the relationship, surely? Or, as your post goes on to say, the children/mum should just accept it because he was always useless anyway. Either way, you’re blaming someone else for his shitty behaviour.

it takes a pretty shitty mother to sell it to their own children that they aren't as loved as their siblings, just so they can hope their own child develops the bitterness towards the father that matches hers

Children draw their own conclusions, based on how they are treated and how that makes them feel. Your assumption that mum is the driving force behind any discontent as a result of her bitterness is too simplistic even if it does suit your narrative.

You're not honestly telling me you'd be able to sit and explain to your child that, sorry we can't go on holiday again this year because we can't afford to take your two teenage siblings in school holidays so we're going nowhere at all. And then your child says but my two teenage siblings went to X y and z place with their mum (because they will know if they have any interaction with the older kids) and you're gonna go yes that's right, sorry

There are many things that can happen to make a holiday accessible for all concerned. These were dismissed, however, because step mum doesn’t want the cheaper option or to take less holidays or just to think outside the box a bit. My children have spent wet weeks in caravans for years because that’s what we could afford (sod all forthcoming from the ex, that’s for sure, just so we’re clear). Did they mind? Did they have fun? Was it what we made it? Did we resolve to make the most of it? Or did we whinge and whine that dad was abroad again with his new family and you didn’t get to go because…well, he’ll have to explain that to them ‘cos it doesn’t make sense to me.

But what you're saying is its okay for the second children to be worse off but not the first kids

Not at all. This is very complex for individual families to get right. Interestingly enough, however, I don’t think I ever see these boards suggest compromise of any kind of their kids are the ones that are better off.

Children draw their own conclusions, based on how they are treated and how that makes them feel. Your assumption that mum is the driving force behind any discontent as a result of her bitterness is too simplistic even if it does suit your narrative.

So you don't think it happens?

There are many things that can happen to make a holiday accessible for all concerned. These were dismissed, however, because step mum doesn’t want the cheaper option or to take less holidays or just to think outside the box a bit. My children have spent wet weeks in caravans for years because that’s what we could afford (sod all forthcoming from the ex, that’s for sure, just so we’re clear). Did they mind? Did they have fun? Was it what we made it? Did we resolve to make the most of it? Or did we whinge and whine that dad was abroad again with his new family and you didn’t get to go because…well, he’ll have to explain that to them ‘cos it doesn’t make sense to me.

So again you think the resident children should have a worse holiday so that the non resident children can have more holidays? How is that fair?

Not at all. This is very complex for individual families to get right. Interestingly enough, however, I don’t think I ever see these boards suggest compromise of any kind of their kids are the ones that are better off

I can only assume you don't read many threads then because that is totally and completely untrue.

@Getawaywithit

Presumably if the Dad was a brilliant Dad before the split, the ex would have fought like a tiger to avoid breaking up. It might even be enough to grit your teeth for with casual infidelity. (Just saying, not laying down any rules)

Lol. You can’t be serious. Nobody in their right mind thinks that dad not taking his kids on holiday is mum’s fault for not fighting hard enough for the relationship, surely? Or, as your post goes on to say, the children/mum should just accept it because he was always useless anyway. Either way, you’re blaming someone else for his shitty behaviour.

You don't have my meaning. If he was a great Dad, and his ex fought hard to keep things going - then he walked for his own reasons, nothing more she could do - he wouldn't then give up on his older children.

Or he wasn't a great Dad, and you are seeing the evidence writ large right now. He hasn't suddenly become BAD DAD because another woman is in his life. A good Dad will pick a woman FOR his children. DH homed in on me precisely because my life experience was relevant for his kids!

So again you think the resident children should have a worse holiday so that the non resident children can have more holidays? How is that fair?

Yes. And this mentality, unsurprisingly turns out to be part of a situation where the children don't have a good relationship with their dad. But, of course, this is zero to do with their mum. It's all the dad...obvs...

We've done it loads. I don't feel bad at all.

Why should my kids miss out?

Don't worry OP. You have to cut your cloth...

And this mentality, unsurprisingly turns out to be part of a situation where the children don't have a good relationship with their dad. But, of course, this is zero to do with their mum. It's all the dad

Well quite. I mean why would a man earning £100k plus ever take his kids on holiday, let alone pay any maintenance for them? Why would he give them £2 for a forgotten busfare or a sandwich for lunch instead of saying ‘I’m not giving you a penny, that’s your mother’s job’? Why would he sign up the kids for music classes and then refuse to pay for them?why would he and step mum continually tell his children that their mother is ‘stupid and lazy’ when step mum doesn’t bother working and mum’s out doing a full time professional job?

Must all be mum, eh? Never dad’s fault his kids can’t be bothered with him.

Do all men earn 100k?

Why would he sign up the kids for music classes and then refuse to pay for them?

My brother paid for activities. Music that the child wanted, a sport they wanted to do. Ex said it was easier if he paid the money to her as she dealt with the school, it was physically closer.

Guess what? He paid for months before the child told him their mum had said no to the lessons because they “couldn’t afford it”.

Every situation is different. We all want our children to be treated equally, but equal isn’t always fair. If you are separated there will be times one set of children get something the other doesn’t. It’s unavoidable. Making it such a big deal doesn’t help.