Going on holiday

[LuckyGrace]

We can never afford to go away during the school holidays all of us together. We have one DC under school age and my husband has 2 older DC.

Are we unreasonable to go away when DSC are away with their mother? The past few years we have done this, when we know when DSC go away, we will book something for the same week so contact isn't affected.

No of course not, thats not what I'm getting at.
If mum wants to comment at all about it, she can either say "dad's trying to make sure all his kids get a holiday" or she can say "dad would rather spend his money in his new kids".

@Getawaywithit

So she can either help make them feel ok about things, or not

But again, why is that mum's responsibility? Dad is making those decisions which have an impact on his family. If she's not supposed to say 'he's got plenty of money for his new family but not for you', why should she say anything at all? As @IceCreamAndCandyfloss says, it's not for mum to cover up or make excuses for him. He needs to take responsibility for his own decisions and (in)actions.

It's not the mums responsibility at all. A decent Mum would protect their children's feelings, but ultimately it should be up to the Dad to explain why the situation is the way it is. That's my feeling on it anyway.

@vivainsomnia

The younger children do still deserve to have those opportunities, that the elder likely had when they were young. I think this should be factored in when deciding to have more children. You need to balance your budget so that you can extend it, not find yourself having to decide whether to prioritise the younger children with the message to the other that they had their time, now it's the time of other children.

This is something I definitely find with my DSS, and seems common with children raised in two different households with two different sets of values
Again, that's something that should have been tackle earlier on. If values are so distinct that joint holidays are not a consideration, the budget should be stretched so that dad can take his older kids away on his own.

I would say the reason dad goes along too is because it's also his holiday, and that of his partner
But why should his holiday only be when he is with one set of children and partner?

It really comes back to the same thing. No issues going with partner and new children IF he can also take his kids away on his own. The holiday budget should be worked out accordingly, be it going only every other years, and/or to cheaper places.

Yes I'm not surprised by any of this, but it is a little unrealistic. In the real world lots of people do go on to have more children when they couldn't afford multiple trips or peak time trips, and have to make their plans accordingly. Budgets are often very stretched following messy divorces or separations.

His holiday "should" be whatever works for the family in question. Chances are if budget is tight, it isn't going to be possible for the SM and little one to go on holiday and him to take a solo trip with his other kids, so it's not really a case of either or, only one will be happening. From a practical standpoint it's quite natural for it to be the former that is prioritised on some occasions, especially if the older kids are already going or have been on similar trips.

It's just the real life stuff of the non middle class.

Perfectly reasonable. The older ones are getting a holiday, presumably some of the maintenance DH pays goes towards the cost.

It really comes back to the same thing. No issues going with partner and new children IF he can also take his kids away on his own. The holiday budget should be worked out accordingly, be it going only every other years, and/or to cheaper places.

That's a bit daft. The younger one would have less holidays. How is that fair?

If mum wants to comment at all about it, she can either say "dad's trying to make sure all his kids get a holiday" or she can say "dad would rather spend his money in his new kids"

But you're still asking her to put a positive spin on something that really isn't positive. He needs to explain it.

A decent Mum would protect their children's feelings

Seriously? How?! How do you protect the feelings of a child left out of a 'family' holiday?! You are again suggesting mum should somehow make it all better. I am not suggesting she should say 'he's a toss pot and never gave a damn about you anyway', but this is not her problem to solve. There's no 'decent' about it. You can't protect when something like this happens again and again and again. And when it does happen again and again, it's likely that the holidays are just the tip of the iceberg.

I just can't understand why we consistently expect women to be the protector of all things children. It can't be like that when a couple have separated. You have to take responsibility, in full, for your own relationship with your children and stop expecting someone else to make your excuses for you. It's just smoke and mirrors.

@DancesWithTortoises

It really comes back to the same thing. No issues going with partner and new children IF he can also take his kids away on his own. The holiday budget should be worked out accordingly, be it going only every other years, and/or to cheaper places.

That's a bit daft. The younger one would have less holidays. How is that fair?

It's not particularly fair however you look at it - the younger child gets less holidays but with both parents, or the older ones get no holidays with their Dad, or they get more holidays than their younger sibling with separated parents.

Whatever you do, someone will lose out.

I don't really know what the solution is TBH, I think you have to find a compromise, but I think whatever that compromise is, someone will get the rougher deal.

The older kids get a holiday anyway. It's important that the younger one has an equal number, I'd say.

@Getawaywithit

If mum wants to comment at all about it, she can either say "dad's trying to make sure all his kids get a holiday" or she can say "dad would rather spend his money in his new kids"

But you're still asking her to put a positive spin on something that really isn't positive. He needs to explain it.

A decent Mum would protect their children's feelings

Seriously? How?! How do you protect the feelings of a child left out of a 'family' holiday?! You are again suggesting mum should somehow make it all better. I am not suggesting she should say 'he's a toss pot and never gave a damn about you anyway', but this is not her problem to solve. There's no 'decent' about it. You can't protect when something like this happens again and again and again. And when it does happen again and again, it's likely that the holidays are just the tip of the iceberg.

I just can't understand why we consistently expect women to be the protector of all things children. It can't be like that when a couple have separated. You have to take responsibility, in full, for your own relationship with your children and stop expecting someone else to make your excuses for you. It's just smoke and mirrors.

You've got the wrong end of the stick with my comment, I totally agree with you.

It's totally up to Dad to deal with it!

That's a bit daft. The younger one would have less holidays. How is that fair?

Life isn't fair, is it?. The OP's children have their parents living together - one set of holidays. Her partner has children elsewhere. Both parents are entitled to down time with their children, to enjoy holidays or trips out etc. Those children get 2 sets of holidays - or should at least be able to spend equal down time with their parent shared with their new siblings.

There are children here with 2 different sets of parents, albeit with some overlap. Those 2 sets of parents will likely have different financial circumstances as well as differing demands on their time and other resources. Do you teach your children 'it's not fair' if their cousins/children in their class/your next door neighbour gets to have more holidays than them?

@Getawaywithit I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick generally. Nobody is trying to say it's mum's job to explain it, just that the kids themselves might bring it up with her and it would be better for them if she didn't put negative thoughts in their head if they do. Yes it's Dad's responsibility, but she naturally has to respond to her kids somehow when they speak to her.

@Getawaywithit

That's a bit daft. The younger one would have less holidays. How is that fair?

Life isn't fair, is it?. The OP's children have their parents living together - one set of holidays. Her partner has children elsewhere. Both parents are entitled to down time with their children, to enjoy holidays or trips out etc. Those children get 2 sets of holidays - or should at least be able to spend equal down time with their parent shared with their new siblings.

There are children here with 2 different sets of parents, albeit with some overlap. Those 2 sets of parents will likely have different financial circumstances as well as differing demands on their time and other resources. Do you teach your children 'it's not fair' if their cousins/children in their class/your next door neighbour gets to have more holidays than them?

But you could say all that about step children not getting to go on all of the holidays?

As an example @Getawaywithit , I've been that Mum. My ex is a total shit when it comes to DS. He is very much the first born forgotten child, who has always been treated like a second class citizen compared to his younger siblings. I have spent many years protecting DS's feelings, I won't condone his Dads behaviour, but I will try and protect DS from it the best I can , ultimately by not bad mouthing his Dad etc. As a young child I was left explaining a lot to him (because his Dad never did) and as he got older I didn't sugar coat it as much. It's wrong, I shouldn't have been put in that position, but it was either that or say it as it is and have an even more upset DS.

He's now almost an adult and he's made up his own mind

Do you teach your children 'it's not fair' if their cousins/children in their class/your next door neighbour gets to have more holidays than them?

Of course not. That would be very silly.

It can't be a perfect situation, it never is with broken families, but the fairest way is for them all to have the same number of holidays.

The older ones can have days out with Dad, perhaps.

I don't think it's reasonable to always do this, by any means. Of course the SCs should get some holidays with their dad, SM and younger sibling(s) etc too.

But I also don't think it's an issue to take holidays with pre-school children while the opportunity is there to get a good deal out of term time. Although I guess this isn't the case here if SCs will also be away the same week in OP's scenario, but I guess the dad has planned this so he doesn't miss any time with his older kids.

It can't be a perfect situation, it never is with broken families, but the fairest way is for them all to have the same number of holidays

I disagree. Holiday time is priceless for many. Leaving the non-resident children out of that because they have holidays elsewhere isn’t reasonable. I accept that sometimes it may happen for many, many possible reasons, but any parent doing it year after year needs to have a word with themselves. It’s not just about the holiday and associated costs from a child’s perspective. It’s being part of the family.

@Getawaywithit

It can't be a perfect situation, it never is with broken families, but the fairest way is for them all to have the same number of holidays

I disagree. Holiday time is priceless for many. Leaving the non-resident children out of that because they have holidays elsewhere isn’t reasonable. I accept that sometimes it may happen for many, many possible reasons, but any parent doing it year after year needs to have a word with themselves. It’s not just about the holiday and associated costs from a child’s perspective. It’s being part of the family.

I see your point but if the younger child ends up with less holidays then that is the worse scenario, in my opinion. It would be good if their DF could afford to take everyone but if it isn't possible then the youngest shouldn't lose out.

But you're still asking her to put a positive spin on something that really isn't positive. He needs to explain it
I'm asking that she not go out of her way to make her children feel bad.
She can always say "I'm not prepared to discuss this with you" if her children try to talk to her about it. Not great, in my opinion.
If she decides to engage, she can back up dad's explanation (making sure all his children have access to holidays is a positive, also in my opinion but obviously not yours) or agree with whatever fears the children may have and make them feel even worse about it (again, opinions seem to vary as to whether this is good parenting practice).

It would be good if their DF could afford to take everyone but if it isn't possible then the youngest shouldn't lose out

But it’s fine the older ones lose out by being left out of a holiday by their dad?
The younger one can always just go away with mum then they are all having the same, no holiday with dad and one each with their mum.

It all gets even more political with who it is that pays for that holiday.

In order for a second family to get off the ground, there are various possible scenarios

1. Dad leaves the older childrens' Mum, and by some modern day miracle, immediately doubles his salary, finds himself a younger model and then adds to his family.

2. Dad can't see his children without a decent roof over his head, and so he looks around for another Mum who got the family home in settlement. She then effectively subsidises the first family.

3. Dad can't see his children without a decent roof over his head, and so he looks around for a high earning career girl who only lacks a baby for total happiness. She then effectively subsidises the first family.

4. Dad's parenting skills are woefully lacking, so he looks around for a partner to supply those. Money is tight, accommodation cramped and holidays virtually non-existent.

And in each of these cases, holidays or the lack of them, will be the flash point.

@Getawaywithit

If mum wants to comment at all about it, she can either say "dad's trying to make sure all his kids get a holiday" or she can say "dad would rather spend his money in his new kids"

But you're still asking her to put a positive spin on something that really isn't positive. He needs to explain it.

A decent Mum would protect their children's feelings

Seriously? How?! How do you protect the feelings of a child left out of a 'family' holiday?! You are again suggesting mum should somehow make it all better. I am not suggesting she should say 'he's a toss pot and never gave a damn about you anyway', but this is not her problem to solve. There's no 'decent' about it. You can't protect when something like this happens again and again and again. And when it does happen again and again, it's likely that the holidays are just the tip of the iceberg.

I just can't understand why we consistently expect women to be the protector of all things children. It can't be like that when a couple have separated. You have to take responsibility, in full, for your own relationship with your children and stop expecting someone else to make your excuses for you. It's just smoke and mirrors.

I just don't think this is what anyone is saying though? Just that it's better for the children to reassure them and keep any anger privately between mum and dad.

I know if this were happening in my situation, if my SCs expressed any upset around this their mum would reassure them that it's only happening because they are already away and their dad didn't want to miss time with them, and then she would let my DP know what SCs had been saying so he could also reassure them.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

It would be good if their DF could afford to take everyone but if it isn't possible then the youngest shouldn't lose out

But it’s fine the older ones lose out by being left out of a holiday by their dad?
The younger one can always just go away with mum then they are all having the same, no holiday with dad and one each with their mum.

Yes, but then the dad doesn't get to go anywhere. To some, that matters. And you'd have to find a woman who is willing to never go on holiday with their partner/have their help on holiday. In the real world, not that likely.

I don't understand why you consider it mum's responsibility to explain dad's reasoning to their children? Why should she take responsibility for his decisions?

It's not taking responsibility for his decisions. It's controlling her own mouth by not misleading her children that "daddy's got plenty of money for Fred and not you" when the truth is "you two have to go in non term time, and that significant expense is what is not affordable for dad"

You don't have to explain that to them, correct.

It's not a bad thing for them to hear. It's not because their dad doesn't care. It's because they are restricted to only go on the weeks that cost too much for Dad to take 3 children with him.

You have a responsibility not to twist things into the nasty "daddy's got money for them, not you". That's a bitter woman to try and upset her own children.

These responses make me die.

"OP, live as a single woman and don't holiday with your partner and child, because you mustn't upset two children who've had to endure Florida with their mother the week before"

Get in the real world. You can sure tell who's a first wife on this thread. And no wonder!

Not read the whole thread but imagine you've had some stick for this OP.

I think it's fine. All kids get one holiday and you're being considerate by taking it at the same time so it's not stopping contact.

I would try and make sure you do some day trips with all the kids though as it's good for family bonding.