End of the road?

[Antn]

Hi all,

I've joined this forum to post this as I no longer know what to do. I apologise if this is a long read.
My wife and I are literally about to separate. Today I packed a bag and left as I just could not deal with our problems anymore. I came home a few hours later as my stepdaughter was crying asking when would I be home.

My wife has 2 daughters from a previous relationship (11 & 13), and I have a son (8). Even though we have had lots of ups and downs, I love the girls and we generally have a really good relationship. I try to be involved in their lives and have reaped some incredible rewards from this.
My wife unfortunately has not formed the same bond with my son. This is ok. At first i was really upset by it, but understand that their relationship doesn't have to be the same as mine is with SDs. The problem is my wife really struggles with my son being here, and if anything it has got worse over the years as he has got older. To the point that I feel like I am acting differently to how i want, to try and make sure that my son doesn't 'annoy' my wife.
The girls spend weekdays and every other weekend with us, and my son comes over one night in the week and every other weekend (same weekend we have girls), although the oldest has now stopped seeing her dad (different jsut as long story) and is with us all the time.
At times my wife and her ex will change weekends etc and thats ok, but as soon as my ex has asked, its a problem.

What started today was my son ringing me and asking if he could come over to see me. I instantly started to make an excuse (and feel so guilty about that it hurts), and as soon as my wife realised what was going on she started saying 'god no' , 'I need a break' etc etc, and rolling her eyes.

Then my sons mother was in the background as obviously my son was getting upset and my wife lost it then and stormed upstairs. She says even the sound of my ex's voice drives her insane.
We then had a row, another one, about how she feels that my ex is always there in her house and that she sees me, my son and my ex as a package. I feel that her hatred towards my ex is aimed at my son. obviously there is a whole lot more that goes behind this but i would end up writing war and peace.

Anyway, thats when i packed a bag walked out and went to take my son out for a few hours.

My wife wants me to tell my ex to stay out of our lives. I find my ex annoying and she does message for stupid reasons, to an extent i see my wifes point. But also find her hypocritical when we change plans and run around doing pickups and dropoffs for her ex.
I asked her if i did this, would it change anything, and she said quite possibly not.

We are literally clinging on by our fingernails. I will loose my wife, my girls, my home, our business, our whole life we have built together, and my son will loose a family he is so found of. I don't know what too do.

Am i fighting a loosing battle? I feel like it. I feel like my wife has left the marriage already if i'm honest.

I am just looking for the other side of this story, advice or criticism

Thanks in advance

@stuckinatrap

How much is your wife expected to do when you DS is there? By which I mean, if she's been working hard and long hours and is tired, that's a shame and she probably needs time out, but if you are feeding, entertaining and looking after your DS, can't she be chilling out elsewhere in the house? It is one of his homes too and it seems mean to complain about him being there, unless she is expected to pick up after him and keep him fed and happy.

She does his washing with everyone else's that he brings down, and she will cook for him along with SDs, everything else I do. I stopped playing rugby so that she didn't have to look after him then as it's my job not hers. In 6 years I have asked her 3 times to help me out by taking him to school. I don't expect her to be a mum to him.

The past month wife has been working away from monday and coming home saturday. I will look after the SDs entirely. No issues. In return all i want is for her to have a conversation with him.

Op I'm sorry for your experience but from reading your story and the thread, it must be awful for your son to feel unwelcome. Your ex doesn't sound difficult and as others have understand you will need that communication for any arrangement involving your son just like your wife communicating with her ex. I don't think this is an ex issue. I would be hurt if my lo wasn't welcomed and loved especially when I am going above and beyond for hers. I think you made the right call. This won't change even if you have counselling. You either like someone or you will pretend to tolerate and the latter is not nice because it will creep out again.

Sorry to sound like I'm interrogating. I believe you! I just wanted to clarify it before saying how utterly unreasonable I think she is being and how your poor son must know that she doesn't enjoy him being around, which must be awful for him and you too.

I don't think it sounds like she wants to change. If you have tried counselling and laid it out openly and it is still like this, then I am not sure what else you can do. She can change things, but only if she wants to and she clearly doesn't.

I'm sorry. It's tough for you.

@Oswin

So the wife's children can decide when they are at the house but ops son cant? OP tell your wife you are setting a schedule for holidays etc. But you are scheduling more time. I think she will react badly. Because it doesnt sound like it's that that's the issue. She doesn't want your son there. She even says she sees you DS and ex as a unit. Oh and those messages are absolutely normal.

the eldest SD decided to stop seeing her dad as he kept letting her down. Making and breaking promises and doing some not great things.

There was never any discussion that she would stop going. It was a given that she would be with us.

The contact from your ex is not excessive at all! There must be more that goes on with your son on a weekly basis that she obviously can't tell you now because of your wife not allowing her to even text you. That's ridiculous to live like that and to take it out on your child because his mum has sent a text regarding pick up arrangements is crazy. You seem to have taken on her children whilst she doesn't even tolerate yours. There is nothing you can do unless you cut both your ex and son out of your life as that's the only way she will be happy. Setting boundaries is necessary with an ex but this contact is very minimal and kind of unfair if she can't ring or text about issues with the child you share. I actually think it's very unfair on the ex and well with your son picking up on that energy and dealing with that level of hatred is just plain unacceptable. Do yourself and your child a favour and walk away or damage your relationship forever. Imagine the girls and how they would feel if you treated them the way she treats your son it will give you some perspective on how unreasonable your wife is being.

@stuckinatrap

Sorry to sound like I'm interrogating. I believe you! I just wanted to clarify it before saying how utterly unreasonable I think she is being and how your poor son must know that she doesn't enjoy him being around, which must be awful for him and you too.

I don't think it sounds like she wants to change. If you have tried counselling and laid it out openly and it is still like this, then I am not sure what else you can do. She can change things, but only if she wants to and she clearly doesn't.

I'm sorry. It's tough for you.

No i completely appreciate you taking the time to respond. I don't feel interrogated.

He's such a beautiful boy. He hasn't hurt anyone and i'm starting to realise it's me thats hurting him as i'm letting it happen through one thing or another.

@Ermintrude74

You've had 10 texts off your ex in the space of a little over 2 months? All of them about arrangements or your son's general welfare? And your wife thinks this is excessive and something to flounce and kick off about? And she isn't welcoming when your 8 year old son wants to come and see his dad? Wow.

It would break my heart to think of my children being that unwelcome in their dad's home.

Your wife sounds like a real piece of work. I can't believe she has kids of her own and cannot extend any empathy or warmth to yours. Your poor little boy.

Her DD13 is in your home all the time. Her DD11 is in your home all weekdays and two weekends a month. Your DS8 is in your home 1 day a week and 2 weekends a month. Your ex-wife has contacted you (on the average) once a week about your son - pickup times, etc. And your wife is having TANTRUMS about your poor son wanting to talk to you (his FATHER) and spending more time with you. She is an awful person. I am sorry for her daughters, but you need to provide more time and attention to your son -- not less. Do what Mumsnetters tell women - gather documents, open your own bank account, find another place to live and file for divorce. Then get custody or at least 50/50 of your son.

I think your wife has worn away your sense of what's reasonable, but just keep thinking of your son, and do right by him.

I'm sure you'd be very unhappy if anyone treated your step daughters in such a way.

@Antn I think one of two things is going on here.

1. your wife is indeed intolerant of your son & using double standards (& yes you would be best off leaving), or
2. she is just worn out by everything at the moment - working long hours, issues with her eldest & her df, pandemic etc. & is possibly getting irritated by the lack of fixed schedule re your son & some unnecessary communication from your ex (the glasses txt for eg). Stuff like this can seem massively intrusive when you're already frazzled & worn out but only you know which of the above is the most likely scenario. I'm a dm & when I was with exdp I would never relay communications between exh & I to him.
   Why would l? However I would also not encourage my dc to ring him wanting to go over outside access hours as it would put exh on the spot, possibly not suit him or his dw & could potentially upset the kids - unfair on everyone.
   I'm in no way saying your wife's behaviour is acceptable, however if it's no. 2 above I can understand how she might just be fed up with everything & is not handling it well. In my experience when women withdraw & cease communication it's often because they feel like they are just not being listened to/have had to put up with a certain situation for way too long. Do you mind me asking how she handled you leaving & then coming back? Was she upset or did she just not seem bothered?

Your post is very sad and you are in an unhappy situation. You seem very willing to have a significant caring role for your stepdaughters yet your wife is barely tolerating your son, an 8 yr old boy. It is not right or fair to allow that situation to continue as it is. He deserves to feel wanted & loved .

The contact from your ex..10 times since the beginning of the year is not intrusive to my mind, far from it I think when you co-parent a young child. When describing your wife's reaction, I was more expecting to hear it was daily or several times a week & about ridiculous things, just excuses to contact & require you to continue to engage with ex. But that doesn't appear to be the case. And calls from your son, to find fault with that is just unreasonable & irrational.

Does your wife realise that you are at breaking point? Is she willing to let you go rather than work towards a solution? She must realise that your commitment to your son must come first, that it should not waiver or falter. His time with you can be managed though to the extent that you can get a calender & mark the days & weekends he can spend with you & parhaps that may lead to him feeling more secure & less in need of last minute unscheduled visits if that occurs rather too frequently or causes alot of disruption.

You need to be forthright & frank I think. Tell her straight out how you feel about her treatment of your child. Do you still love her, OP? She doesn't sound very loveable in the circumstances you outline. But perhaps she has better kinder qualities. If so, if she believes she is a good person then she should show it, prove it in her behaviour toward your son. If not, it would be the death knell of the relationship for me. I'd rather raise a happy child on my own than put my spouse ahead of him in the knowledge that by doing so I was hurting my child.

I feel sorry for her daughters also in this. Your wife will destroy this family if she is unwilling to change. Give counselling or therapy one last try, if she is willing...on the basis that things improve. But if not, I'd leave, find your own place & let your son know he is welcome there always.

Please get some counselling as soon as you can to try and give this the best shot at saving the situation.

Your wife is getting such a good deal for her. At best she sounds selfish, at worst, toxic. He is an eight year old boy whose young world has been torn apart. He had no control or choice in the matter. Your poor son! Now his father is so under the thumb, so treading on eggshells that he tries to fob off his eight year old only child, to keep the peace with a selfish stepmother who only has contempt for him.

If your wife can have her 13 year old full time in your joint home, how can she possibly object to your son spending more time? She accommodates frequent charges and request from her ex and yet finds your ex annoying and intolerable. It seems as there is one standard for you and your son and yet a totally different standard for her .

You are on your second wife and could easily move on to wife number three or four, but your son only gets to have 1 childhood. Are you willing to sacrifice that childhood to satisfy the somewhat hypocritical standards that your wife seems to be setting?

You are as entitled to have your son spend as much time with you as she is to have her 13 declare that she is no longer going to her father's home. Your son is still spending less time in your home than her 13 year old is spending.

If she accommodates frequent request and changes on the part of her ex , it again seems hypocritical to object to your accommodating the same from your ex.

She seems to be insisting that you do as she says but not as she does. It seems that you traded in one controlling woman for yet another woman with control issues.

Perhaps you should consider couples counseling while asserting your right to see your son as much as she sees her daughter.

Your having your son should not include her having to be i n any way responsible for your son; nor should she expect you to do for or provide for her daughters in an way that she in unwilling to do or provide for your son.

I'm surprised that you said you were "annoyed" by "unnecessary texts" from your ex. Which of the texts you listed was unnecessary or trivial ? 10 texts, that's barely one a week, and all about your son. Your ex seems quite reasonable.

Your wife, on the other hand... Has she always been like this ? I can't imagine how your son must feel when he's spending time at your home.
It seems kinda weird really, does your wife have problems with jealousy/possessivity ?
Either way, you can't let your son take the fallout. If your marriage is to be saved your wife must accept that your son will spend time with you. Is there any chance she can be reasonable about it ? Because if not, I see little future in your relationship.

Sorry, this is a tough situation to be in. Has the pandemic exacerbated those issues ? I can't imagine you lived like this for four years (also imagine you wouldn't have married your wife if she'd been like that from the beginning).

Sorry, forgot to add - is there any particular issues between your son and wife ? Is he misbehaving ? That wouldn't make your wife's behaviour okay, but it'd be slightly more understandable.

Unless your son is a difficult child I think your wife is completely unreasonable here. The best child access arrangements are flexible ones imho , it is important for the child to have a say in how their life is organised. Your wife clearly recognises this as she wants it for her children.

It sounds like you've done your best to meet her halfway , putting your son first by leaving is for the best now. I know you'll miss your step daughters but you and your son can't live like this.

Good luck , op , I hope it all works out for you and your boy.

I think your wife is the problem here.What heartless being doesn't welcome an 8 year old child? If I were you I would fall time on this marriage and get your own place so you can enjoy your relationship with your son. You've said it yourself you communicate for you and your wife.That is a bad sign that she doesn't want to communicate. You should never have to make excuses not to see your own child.

Call time

It doesn't really sound like your wife has much of a leg to stand on. The only thing I can see that could have potentially lead to reasonable resentment is what you mentioned about rugby - did you stop straight away or was there an overlap where you were expecting her to pick up childcare?

And out of curiosity, what is your son's behaviour like, and his relationship with your wife like?

It sounds like your DW is not relaxed/happy/comfortable when your DS is there.

Is this the case?

You need to ask your DW what the real issue is
A) your son be there full stop
B) your son being there when it's not the schedule or unexpectedly
C) the fact it seems when your DS or Ex ask for something you jump to it
D) your behaviour changing when DS is there

With regards to C) it may be historically that happened a lot and now your DW is super triggered by it.

If it's around just have DS at all then you have to call time. Your DW needs to be honest with you. It's concerning that even after counselling you don't know what the problem is?

Haven’t read the whole thread properly so apologies if I am repeating anything.

You really need to work out what’s going on here with son/ex/wife.

I do get where your wife is coming from as my DP has a DSC with an ex that can be like this. My main issue with the situation is she wants to call all the shots as and when it suits her, wants to say jump and he has to say ‘how high?’ And that is so frustrating. Not saying that is necessarily what is going on here but worth considering.

This has at times caused issues for us too. A good example I can give is this, first lockdown, ex didn’t want DSC to come to ours, so they went months without visiting. She was however happy for DP to go to hers to see them, play with them, hug them etc etc, so IMO completely manipulative not allowing them to come here, as DP had seen all us anwyay, slept in bed with me etc etc, so him then seeing DSC defeated the point. On top of that she would get DSC to call everyday asking DP to bring stuff round, go see him etc etc to which DP obviously felt guilty. DSC is little, too little to have a phone and too little to use it without their mum doing it.

It annoyed me, not because he wanted to see DSC but because ex was manipulating the situation to purposely be obstructive and get contact the way she wanted (she never wanted DSC to come here anyway).

Switch to this lockdown, and she is in work everyday, so now wants DSC to come here everyday and for us to look after then while we WFH and she goes to work.

Me and DP have spoken about it and I know at times he’s felt similar to you, that I don’t like DSC or don’t want him to see them etc. Which isn’t true, I’ve told him I’d be more than happy for DSC to come to us everyday. My issue is that his ex is being manipulative and using DSC to do it, just more sneakily than perhaps some others do. I wanted him to put his foot down with her and let her know he isn’t going to play her games. As ultimately it’s only DSC that misses out that way.

Funnily enough since he’s done this, things have become a lot better. DSC now does come everyday, on a schedule and we have been able to do much more with them, and they are more included in our life without her constantly in the background trying to mess it up. I think ex had to come to terms with the fact that DSC is going to be part of mine and my DC life in order to have a good relationship with their dad and once she got a grip that she can’t control everything about them when they aren’t with her, it calmed down.

Op how is your son with your partner, is his behaviour okay or awful or just very ver different from her girls and therefore she struggles.
My dps 3 kids I could take the two older ones pretty much whenever, but the youngest winds me up and I don't like them very much .
Contact from exp is infuriating when unwanted or aggressive etc.
You need a proper conversation with her or counselling to sort this.
Also if your son wanted to see you why couldn't you go and see him or take him to park for football etc? It doesn't always have to be at home or overnights etc. I'd happily wave dp off for a few hours if he wanted to take kids to park etc midweek

You're wife sounds a heartless cow is it any hardship making extra food once a week a 2 a month and adding his clothes to the wash. Poor thing. To make him feel so welcome when he made her girls welcome the double standards is shocking. As for the ex that level of contact is not alot. Me and ex speak alot more we rang each other to dicuss uniforms as ds had our grow his as we cooparent he cheated previously but its water under the bridge and we are both married and it long established relationships its ds thats priority.

@RandomMess

It sounds like your DW is not relaxed/happy/comfortable when your DS is there.

Is this the case?

You need to ask your DW what the real issue is
A) your son be there full stop
B) your son being there when it's not the schedule or unexpectedly
C) the fact it seems when your DS or Ex ask for something you jump to it
D) your behaviour changing when DS is there

With regards to C) it may be historically that happened a lot and now your DW is super triggered by it.

If it's around just have DS at all then you have to call time. Your DW needs to be honest with you. It's concerning that even after counselling you don't know what the problem is?

What you have described here is what was going on for me. We have worked through it now and it’s much better.

It never was about DSC who I have no problem with. DSC can be naughty at times and push the boundaries and I find this hard, only because I feel more restricted in terms of punishment for him than my own DC so I let DP deal with this now.

But my issue was about DPs ex manipulating everything, and more so, about him letting her. Even when this was to the detriment of DSC, but I don’t think he could see it that way. He was trapped in guilt mode of feeling bad for not being there for his DC full time and leaving his mum who wasn’t coping well alone. What he didn’t realise was he wasn’t helping her to cope alone by jumping and doing the dance she wanted him to.

This has improved since he made those changes. I wanted a relationship with my DP and took his DC as part of this package but I didn’t want a 3 person relationship which included his ex and that’s how it felt.