SD16’s DM insisting on overnight stays

[SpongebobNoPants]

My DP has 2 DDs, SD11 & SD16.
For the past 10 years contact has been a regular Weds evening for dinner and EOW.

Recently SD16 has said she doesn’t want to come to ours for the whole weekend anymore, she wants to do 1 night or maybe just hang out with us for the day then go home after dinner time.

We’re totally cool with this and are of the mindset that she’s old enough to decide now. She speaks to her dad everyday and FaceTimes almost daily, they have a good close relationship.

Also during lockdown both girls have been coming for dinner a couple of times in the week, coming with us to walk the dog etc as we live close by.
They can’t stay over in the week because DP works nights.

However, her DM has thrown a fit over this and says we have to force SD to come because “she needs a break”. I’m sympathetic towards this as lockdown is hard and teenagers can be moody etc but I think forcing a 16yo to still have full EOW contact is a bit ridiculous.

Once lockdown restrictions are eased DP has said that even if SD16 decides not to stay her overnight he’ll do all the running around for her on what would be our normal contact weekend i.e. picking up / dropping off at friend’s houses etc. so his ex doesn’t have to.

SD12 will still be coming here as per the usual schedule.

I just think it’s a bit unfair for their DM to try and force SD16 to come to ours if she doesn’t want to? She’s pretty self sufficient, she cooks and cleans and washes her own clothes.

DM has said they should now come for 1 night every weekend instead which we can’t accommodate as DP’s shifts means he works on the weekends he doesn’t have his DDs.

So them coming every weekend for 1 night will only benefit DM as the girls won’t see their dad anyway.
I’m also unwilling to look after my SDs to give their mum a break on the 2 weekends my DS isn’t here (he goes to his dads) as that’s my downtime and I work full time, their DM doesn’t work either.

We’re not sure how to approach it? Should we force SD16 to stay here both nights if she doesn’t want to? Won’t that cause resentment?

Also wonder how many parents who are still together get a night off from their children every other weekend 🤔

I agree it's not fair to force the dd16 to do something, the mum needs to talk to her and explain, but I also think the dad could tell her he really loves having her and wants to have that time with her and will look for ways to make it more comfortable for her at your house.

I don’t think this has anything to do with sex, as I’ve said in my posts their DM has been in a relationship for 3 (actually maybe it’s 4?) years now. Her partner is over there a lot.
I mean what do other people do? Do you not have sex when your kids are in the house? My DD is here full time and my partner and I make it work

To respond to a previous post asking what we do to make her feel welcome... she’s treated the same as the others kids. She’s self sufficient as in if she’s hungry she’ll just make herself a snack or a cup of tea. When she gets up she makes her own bed and puts her used cups / plates in the dishwasher.
If she wants some clothes washing she just puts them in the machine. She just gets on with stuff and is pretty easy to have around in that respect, unlike her younger sister who doesn’t yet do these things.

I was simply pointing out that she doesn’t require looking after like younger kids do.

When my SDs are here I try and make them meals I know they like but generally they just mix in with us, there’s no red carpet rolled out. They’re part of our family not guests... but I mean that in a normal, nice way

@WHY2021

Also wonder how many parents who are still together get a night off from their children every other weekend 🤔

I wonder how many parents who are still together have to do everything alone 12 nights and days out 14? And still get people suggesting they're selfish.

If that's your point, the OPs DH gets 12 nights a week off from his children...

@OverTheRubicon but presumably this is an amicable arrangement that has been in place for some time, if the mother wanted it shared more equally then there should have been call for a 50/50 split.

My point was in a relationship when both parents are there and responsible for the children how many have the equivalent completely child free time.

[quote WHY2021]@OverTheRubicon but presumably this is an amicable arrangement that has been in place for some time, if the mother wanted it shared more equally then there should have been call for a 50/50 split.

My point was in a relationship when both parents are there and responsible for the children how many have the equivalent completely child free time.[/quote]
Not saying it should be 50/50, that's up to them. I just don't like the number of people suggesting that the mother is selfish when she's clearly been doing the vast majority of the parenting for some time, and the walls feel like closing in on all of us sometimes during lockdown.

And having been in a relationship with 2 parents together and then apart, even when the workload is quite unevenly distributed, it's still a ton more when you are separated. Mothers who live with a partner and children can pop out for a run, or have a lie in, or go to the shops alone far more easily. It's not the same.

I agree it's not the same. But I think it is for the mum and her daughter to agree this, not put it on the father to "force" his daughter to spend the night.

Usual twisted MN thinking towards SMs.
OP is correct, contact is for the girls
and their dad, not for her to look after whilst he works.
Remember SMs jump when told but never speak up,
Am I the only one who found it odd the mum made her DD stand in the doorstep whilst she fetched her things for her?
As usual the DM must have her way and SM
must be a doormat.
🙄🙄🙄🙄

@OverTheRubicon
Mothers who live with a partner and children can pop out for a run, or have a lie in, or go to the shops alone far more easily. It's not the same

Outside of lockdown she has 30+ hours a week to do all of these things, just saying 🤷🏼‍♀️
Also the girls are 16 and nearly 12, even if they are with her she could easily pop out for an hour or two and leave them at home either together or individually. These are not toddlers we’re talking about

@SpongebobNoPants
Remember on MN they are ‘children’ until
they are about 25!
If you can’t leave your 16 yr old alone then you’ve failed as a parent, honestly the namby pamby going on is madness.

[quote HerMammy]@SpongebobNoPants
Remember on MN they are ‘children’ until
they are about 25!
If you can’t leave your 16 yr old alone then you’ve failed as a parent, honestly the namby pamby going on is madness.[/quote]
Of course you can leave a 16 year old alone sometimes, but when a father is getting 12 nights a fortnight without parental responsibility (because that's what it is, it's not about childcare at that age) then I think it's entirely reasonable to ask that he takes his 2 nights every 14 days, if possible. If the 16 year old truly hates it then fine, but I also think that if he's a good parent, then he'll be asking himself why they don't want to come and maybe getting a bit more involved.

Not all 16 year olds are the same. Many 'self-sufficient' 16 year olds are absolutely fine. Others have dodgy friends or school groups who would absolutely show up if mum went over to her boyfriend's place.

@OverTheRubicon as I’ve said many many times on this thread we’re happy to have her as often as she wants to come, more than 2 nights a fortnight it’s not a problem. She just prefers being at her mum’s house and doesn’t want to be splitting her nights between 2 homes anymore.
Whether we agree with mum “needing a break” or not, that wasn’t the question.
It’s whether it’s reasonable to force a 16yo to continue overnight contact if she no longer wants to do it... which she doesn’t always want to do.

If the 16 year old truly hates it then fine, but I also think that if he's a good parent, then he'll be asking himself why they don't want to come and maybe getting a bit more involved

I think this is a bit unfair. He’s very involved with his kids, they just can’t stay over during the week because I’m not willing to take on the extra childcare and his job means he leaves for work around 5.30am.
Actually I don’t mind the 16yo staying over more, just not the younger one because I don’t want to be responsible for another child when I’m working full time and have full responsibility for my own 2 DCs.
We see the kids far more than 4 times a month by the way, they come for dinner and we always seem to be the ones running around doing drop off or pick ups from activities or their friends houses. We also tend to see either or both most weekends but I’m not willing to commit to having them here every weekend because we need downtime too.

It isn't. If her mum wants to fall out with her over this then leave her to it, but I wouldn't let her mum's preferences impact on the relationship you and your partner have with your SD.

[quote SpongebobNoPants]@OverTheRubicon as I’ve said many many times on this thread we’re happy to have her as often as she wants to come, more than 2 nights a fortnight it’s not a problem. She just prefers being at her mum’s house and doesn’t want to be splitting her nights between 2 homes anymore.
Whether we agree with mum “needing a break” or not, that wasn’t the question.
It’s whether it’s reasonable to force a 16yo to continue overnight contact if she no longer wants to do it... which she doesn’t always want to do.[/quote]
And I totally agree you shouldn't force anyone, and that as a stepmother you're doing all the right things in being welcoming but taking her lead on this.

The bit about the break is because so many of the previous posters were scathing about this, and I felt it was really unfair.

To me the question is whether your DH has been doing enough to ensure that her time with him is enjoyable and worth it - this is such an important age for building self worth and relationships and soon she will be out anyway.

I thought contact was supposed to be for the benefit of the children? Funny how that changes for some posters!

I do appreciate DM wanting a break EOW from a teenager in the house but I honestly don't know how you can expected to enforce it once they reach a certain age. I don't think it's fair or right personally to force a 16 year old to stay at OPs when she doesn't want to. What age do children have to be before they get a say? There's been threads on other parts of MN before from mother's with much younger children who are saying they don't want to go to Dads and the general consensus is always that it shouldn't be forced against their will. The 16 year old in this situation is the only one being asked to do something she doesn't want to do, more consideration needs to be given to her feelings rather than her mum and dad's imo.

I lived with my Dad growing up. He worked night shifts as a police officer. I would often stay by myself at home at this age whilst he did. I could have gone to my mums if I'd have wanted, but I didn't always want to. It's not just about having friends nearby, but you do imo, tend to feel like you have one proper home and to me that was my dad's, that's where I wanted to be.

People are saying well she can't stay at Dad's on X days because he's working so what's the difference... The difference is DSD isn't asking to stay at Dad's. She doesn't want to stay there. She wants to stay at her mum's so it's irrelevant.

People are saying well she can't stay at Dad's on X days because he's working so what's the difference
I’ve not even said that though, she can stay whenever she likes as she’s no bother at all. It’s the younger one I’m not willing to parent if her actual parent isn’t here.
This will obviously change as my younger SD gets older and more independent, then she’ll be able to have more freedom about coming and going as she pleases... but for now I’m not willing to take on that extra responsibility when I already have double the responsibilities of either parent considering I work full time and have one child full time, and another 80% of the time.

I’m not willing to give their mum a break at my own expense to be blunt

@OhTheHeartBurn I thought contact was supposed to be for the benefit of the children? Funny how that changes for some posters!

Yes, mums should always be in charge of their children, even when there's another responsible parent available. If a single mum posted here and said that she was tired and claustrophobic in lockdown and her 16 year old wouldn't go to her dad's two nights a fortnight, I'm fairly sure that other posters would rally around to say that the dad should be stepping up to encourage her, for the sake of the 16 year old and also to play the part of a responsible co-parent, even if a very long way from an equal one. Most teens I know are keener than usual on nights away right now due to cabin fever, maybe she prefers it at mums or maybe she feels like an outsider with the other kids and perhaps a busy dad.

Of course @SpongebobNoPants shouldn't have to take her during the week when the dad isn't even around. But maybe there's more that the dad can do - he's the one who fathered the children, who chose to have a second family, and who needs to play his part.

who chose to have a second family

He doesn’t have a second family. I have 2 DCs from a previous relationship whom I take full care and responsibility for. He is not their dad and SD is most certainly not an outsider.
There’s nothing untoward going on, she just prefers it at her mums because she’s got a bigger bedroom and all her stuff there as it’s her main residence.

Can I also point out that she’s not saying she doesn’t want to come over to our house!
She just wants the freedom to choose whether she just comes for days out or dinner, or 1 night instead of 2.
My SD is not saying she doesn’t want to stay over ever, she just wants to be able to decide when or for how long.
Which by the way her dad and I are totally fine with

for the sake of the 16 year old

Oh come off it, this isn't for the sake of the DSD. She has made her wants perfectly clear and everyone is encouraging ignoring them for the benefit of Mum.

You can encourage her to stay by all means but it's absolutely not unreasonable for a teenager of 16 years old to want to have some sort of say over where she spends her time. As OP has said, it's only flexibility to choose that she's asking for. When do her feelings get taken into consideration, at what age?

For me, it's not really about how much one parent does over the other. OPs husband could be a complete absent father, never have taken responsibility for his kids and do the bare minimum (I am not saying for one minute this is the case btw OP), and I still wouldn't think it right to force a 16 year old to go somewhere when she wants to come home. She is old enough to make a decision and have that decision respected, it's not about mum and dad.

I just think forcing a strict contact schedule on a teen who has expressed a want for more freedom to choose is wrong. No matter who does more parenting than who.

And surely it's not completely unexpected?

My DSC stay 50:50. I am under no illusions that this will never change as they get older and want to have more flexibility over their time. Whether that be them wanting to spend more time here or more at their mums I don't know but I imagine as they get into their teens that this conversation will come up eventually where they don't want to follow a strict schedule of moving between houses and want to choose for themselves which I think is absolutely fair, irrespective of how any of us as parents feel about it. It's their life at the end of the day.

I don't know why some posters are speculating that the DSD doesn't want to come because dad's house isn't welcoming enough. Surely when teens reach an age where they're becoming self sufficient and developing adult-to-adult relationships with their parents they might prefer not to have to drag themselves between two houses if they're of an age where overnights aren't necessary for facilitating contact?

A couple of my own DSCs gradually moved from overnights to dinners once or twice a week because while we provided everything for them at our house they always struggled with transitions both to and from mum's and dad's. Their mum's house was the old family home so naturally they gravitated there. The other DSC weren't bothered by the transitions so they continued weekly overnights with us until they started uni. The point is they were free to choose what suited them best.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if this was the exact same post except it was the mum wanting her DD with her more and her dad insisting contact continue as is, no one would be saying the DD should be forced to continue with overnights at her dad's.

@MyCatHatesEverybody absolutely.

I went through the exact same thing. I often stayed at my dad's alone whilst he worked night shifts at this age! Even though I could go to my mums. It was nothing to do with her house not being welcoming. I just wanted to chill and decide my own schedule and yes, whilst my mum's house was great and welcoming, my Dad's was home to me, I don't think the idea of step children having one 'home' is actually as horrifying as some posters want to make it out to be.

I don't get some of these responses, or the attitude of SD's mum.

SD is not saying she NEVER wants to go to her dad's, she'd just prefer to choose whether she actually stays overnight every other weekend. So she will still be out of her mum's house for significant portions of time over that weekend to see her dad & family.

Tbh I'm surprised her mum doesn't feel the same way as OP - that as long as younger SD is still going for the whole weekend then the older girl can come and go as she doesn't need much looking after and tbh at that age probably spends most of her time out with mates or in her room.

The only thing I'd be concerned about is whether the younger SD would still want to stay if her sister is going home, but that issue will come up over the next couple of years anyway so may as well sort it now.