SD16’s DM insisting on overnight stays

[SpongebobNoPants]

My DP has 2 DDs, SD11 & SD16.
For the past 10 years contact has been a regular Weds evening for dinner and EOW.

Recently SD16 has said she doesn’t want to come to ours for the whole weekend anymore, she wants to do 1 night or maybe just hang out with us for the day then go home after dinner time.

We’re totally cool with this and are of the mindset that she’s old enough to decide now. She speaks to her dad everyday and FaceTimes almost daily, they have a good close relationship.

Also during lockdown both girls have been coming for dinner a couple of times in the week, coming with us to walk the dog etc as we live close by.
They can’t stay over in the week because DP works nights.

However, her DM has thrown a fit over this and says we have to force SD to come because “she needs a break”. I’m sympathetic towards this as lockdown is hard and teenagers can be moody etc but I think forcing a 16yo to still have full EOW contact is a bit ridiculous.

Once lockdown restrictions are eased DP has said that even if SD16 decides not to stay her overnight he’ll do all the running around for her on what would be our normal contact weekend i.e. picking up / dropping off at friend’s houses etc. so his ex doesn’t have to.

SD12 will still be coming here as per the usual schedule.

I just think it’s a bit unfair for their DM to try and force SD16 to come to ours if she doesn’t want to? She’s pretty self sufficient, she cooks and cleans and washes her own clothes.

DM has said they should now come for 1 night every weekend instead which we can’t accommodate as DP’s shifts means he works on the weekends he doesn’t have his DDs.

So them coming every weekend for 1 night will only benefit DM as the girls won’t see their dad anyway.
I’m also unwilling to look after my SDs to give their mum a break on the 2 weekends my DS isn’t here (he goes to his dads) as that’s my downtime and I work full time, their DM doesn’t work either.

We’re not sure how to approach it? Should we force SD16 to stay here both nights if she doesn’t want to? Won’t that cause resentment?

The dsd can legally leave home. Telling her where she has to sleep is ridiculous...

Yeah I'd be interested to know her reasons for wanting to stay home, especially if you guys live close to her mum so it's not as if friends are not within reach at yours.

If your home perhaps more stricter than mums?

I have a 13/14 & 17 year old and are getting a bit of this but in reverse

It sounds as though dad's position is that the girls cannot be at his house if he is not there even though they are both old enough to be self sufficient, and mom's position is that they cannot be at her house on the weekends that they are supposed to be with their dad. Odd positions for either parent to take in what should be their children 's home.

I don't think either parents is particularly reasonable given that both girls seem to be self sufficient and should be allowed in the homes that their parents provide at any time.

These girls are treated more as tolerated inconveniences rather than welcomed children by both of their parents. I know that the comparison to a nuclear family is not always welcomed, but only in step situations would children be told that their cannot have access to the family home on certain days or times.

I cannot imagine that my father or mother would have under any circumstances told any of us as minor children that there was a time when we were not allowed in the home that they provided for us. Life can be unnecessarily complex for some kids. Imagine having to grow up thinking as a child that the house that is supposed to be your home is off limits because one parent does not trust you to be in the house if he is not there although you are certainly old enough and self sufficient enough to be there, and your other parent simply wants a break from you and will not allow you. to be there on certain days.

It seems as though they may have prescribed access to 2 houses , but in any meaningful way they do not have a home in either place.

@Tiredoftattler
Why would they be wanting to stay with their SM though if their dads either not there or asleep? Just so their DM “gets a break”?
Redirect your fire on that one I think.

On one hand it sounds a bit hypocritical. Their DM has to get on with not having a break but you need your 2 child free weekends a month to have a break. I don't think you should be forcing her to stay, but I can understand their DMs frustration that their is no flexibility from their dad. EOW is essentially the only option as neither of you can/will look after both girls any of the other 12 nights. Is there any way of making her room at yours more like her one at home?

@Tiredoftattler

It sounds as though dad's position is that the girls cannot be at his house if he is not there even though they are both old enough to be self sufficient, and mom's position is that they cannot be at her house on the weekends that they are supposed to be with their dad. Odd positions for either parent to take in what should be their children 's home.

I don't think either parents is particularly reasonable given that both girls seem to be self sufficient and should be allowed in the homes that their parents provide at any time.

These girls are treated more as tolerated inconveniences rather than welcomed children by both of their parents. I know that the comparison to a nuclear family is not always welcomed, but only in step situations would children be told that their cannot have access to the family home on certain days or times.

I cannot imagine that my father or mother would have under any circumstances told any of us as minor children that there was a time when we were not allowed in the home that they provided for us. Life can be unnecessarily complex for some kids. Imagine having to grow up thinking as a child that the house that is supposed to be your home is off limits because one parent does not trust you to be in the house if he is not there although you are certainly old enough and self sufficient enough to be there, and your other parent simply wants a break from you and will not allow you. to be there on certain days.

It seems as though they may have prescribed access to 2 houses , but in any meaningful way they do not have a home in either place.

How exactly is this helpful to @SpongebobNoPants? 🙄

[quote SpongebobNoPants]@Scbchl ahhh see I find that a bit odd. At 16 my parents (and a lot of my friend’s parents) would go away on business trips and holidays and leave the teenagers at home alone.
It seems strange to me that a 16yo couldn’t be trusted for 1 night.

Actually thinking about it she did leave SD16 for a night a few months back to go and stay in a hotel and DP was on call to check on her and be available if SD needed him.
So I’m not sure what has changed[/quote]
Is that actually true? Or just conveniently remembered?

And if Scbchl you were my mother I would move out. In fact I nearly did...

Anyway, I agree with Youseethethingis the mother needs to come up with reasons to explain her behaviour. You and your DP need to leave it as you cannot force your older SD to stay at yours.

On one hand it sounds a bit hypocritical. Their DM has to get on with not having a break but you need your 2 child free weekends a month to have a break. I don't think you should be forcing her to stay, but I can understand their DMs frustration that their is no flexibility from their dad. EOW is essentially the only option as neither of you can/will look after both girls any of the other 12 nights. Is there any way of making her room at yours more like her one at home?
The DM isn’t expected to give up her break from her children to welcome anyone else’s into her home so a false comparison.
The DF has said he will still do all the running around, he’s willing to accommodate his daughters changing needs, he just can’t change his work schedule so not sure he’s the inflexible one.
The DSD is 16 years old so what would you suggest would effectively “trick” her into feeling she’s at her mums house when she isn’t? Soft furnishings? Fairy lights? Change the scent of the fabric softener?

@Elieza
Perhaps a compromise would be for the daughter to stay every second week instead of every week?
But up to your DH to arrange. Perhaps he could ask if she had more things at yours would she want to stay more, with a view to getting a few more bits to make her more comfortable when she’s there?

The long standing current arrangement is every other weekend which we’re happy to continue but SD doesn’t want to always stay for 2 nights, she wants freedom to choose if it’s 1 night or 2 that’s all.
She has a beautiful bedroom here that’s decorated as she chose and we buy her everything she needs for here but it usually gets taken back to her mums to be honest. Nice slippers & dressing gown, nice toiletries etc end up going home with her when she leaves.

@SpongebobNoPants I would agree that this is one for your DSD to sort out with her mother. She’s 16 and she’s going to have to work out how to relate to her mother as she becomes an adult.

Your DP can maybe help her by discussing how to approach things so that her mum listens to what her daughter wants (rather than it become a screaming thing etc). But ultimately it’s an issue that mother and daughter will have to figure out between them.

I know that I found contact really tricky throughout my teenage years. I felt obligated all over the place, and also disloyal, and I felt like my own life and friendships came last. That’s because my parents were both dreadful about it all.

Your DP cannot control his ex’s behaviour in any way. But he can listen to her, and help his daughter to express herself in a way that gives her mother the best chance of listening to her too. Ultimately that’ll equip her for all sorts of life situations.

The dm is out of order, you can't force a 16 year old to do anything she can leave home entirely if she chooses.
Just tell her no, it doesn't work for you, dh isn't there and they aren't your children.
Ask if she'll take your ds for a while and see her reaction to that.

I suspect dm has a "friend" to stay on her "weekend off" and I don't blame her, she doesn't want a nosy 16 year old at home. As to you not wanting to be there for them ever without your dp, they seems harsh considering you also say that the 16 year old is self sufficient (so could reasonably watch her younger sibling if you have plans post covid). As much as 16 year olds have some autonomy, I'm sympathetic to their mum. I would want to continue having eow too.

No I don't see why you should facilitate their DM having every weekend free and you having no weekends free. Stuff that.

So she is welcome to stay at yours but she doesn’t want to. Surely it’s then up to her mum to say she can’t stay at her house for that weekend rather than for you to force her to come and stay?!

@BendingSpoons it’s not hypocritical to say I’m not giving up my free time to look after someone else’s children. Their contact time is between their mum and dad, not me.

I actually get no weekends free because I have DD10 here full time, only my DS6 goes to his dads.
Our weekend pattern is odd because my ex’s shifts mean we have this:

Week 1: all the children
Week 2: just my children
Week 3: just SDs & my DD
Week 4: just my DD

Week 2 I think it’s important my DCs have some bonding time without the SCs there as they otherwise wouldn’t see each other much (outside of the current weird lockdown situation).

Week 4 is my relatively relaxed weekend as DD10 is very chilled.

On weeks 2&4 DP usually works except for Saturday night. So that’s his break.

Does she have her own room at yours? I’d be thinking of ways to make it nicer/ more comfortable for her at your house. Make sure she can keep lots of clothes there etc. Maybe her Dad could talk to her and ask if there’s anything extra that would help her feel more settled in her ‘second home’.

It won’t be long before she’s at university and your DH may feel he’s missed out.

Youseethings a flat screen TV like she has at her mum's according to the OP?

At 16 she's old enough to decide.

You are right to say no to every weekend. Not your kids to look after when DH isn't there.

@excelledyourself no that’s actually true. It was in late September time for her DP’s birthday.
We had SD12 here as normal and SD(who was actually 15 at the time) stayed at her mums but we were responsible for her.

@movingonup20 their DM has a long term bf who also has his own house.

PS we have the opposite, 2 of our 4 have decided that they prefer to be here not at their so called rp home - term time they are at university but they haven't gone back and have come with a car load of stuff. Doesn't bother me but dp paid extra divorce settlement so his ex could have a bigger house and his dd is here!

No, but your DH has chosen a work pattern with little flexibility that means he is less available for his children. I am not saying you should give up your free time, but have some empathy for their DM who apparently doesn't get a choice.

BendingSpoons you know people frequently aren't in a situation to choose their exact work pattern?

Anyway, the child is 16 it is up to her if she wants to have contact with her father considering she lives with her mother. She currently doesn't want overnight contact.

@Tiredoftattler

It sounds as though dad's position is that the girls cannot be at his house if he is not there even though they are both old enough to be self sufficient, and mom's position is that they cannot be at her house on the weekends that they are supposed to be with their dad. Odd positions for either parent to take in what should be their children's home

I have said in previous posts I’d be happy for SD16 to stay over on weeknights etc as she is self sufficient.
I am not however willing to look after SD12 when her dad is at work as she isn’t self sufficient, she’s quite difficult to look after and her contact time is for her dad to see her. I also work full time and have 2 DCs of mine so I’d feel it was unfair if their mum expected me to pick up the slack in that respect especially as she doesn’t work.

I don't think either parents is particularly reasonable given that both girls seem to be self sufficient and should be allowed in the homes that their parents provide at any time

Older SD is free to come and go as she pleases. Younger SD is welcome if her parent is here to look after her.

These girls are treated more as tolerated inconveniences rather than welcomed children by both of their parents. I know that the comparison to a nuclear family is not always welcomed, but only in step situations would children be told that their cannot have access to the family home on certain days or times

I repeat. Older SD is welcome to come and go as she pleases, that’s what we’re advocating but her mum is refusing.
SD12 is too immature to have that freedom and actually needs parenting and supervision. This will obviously change as she gets older.