BM expectations?

[Songbird232018]

So BM or some she knows has been on MN as in a text row yesterday she called my partner a useless Disney dad... I got really defensive as in my eyes he's the furthest from it and I'm not blind to his faults by any means!

So decent dad points if you will

• pays CSA every month religiously for 2 kids granted he was paying more and its took a drop this year because he's had less work. Gone from 360 to around 300 last month
• has 3 kids (2 bio one step) EOW, twice for tea, half holidays if not more and more random nights when possible ie Inset days
• pays 1 child's phone bill mum does the other
• all 3 kids get £15 pocket money a month
• when we can we treat the kids to new trainers/Coats etc and we always get the expensive Christmas / bday gift such as PlayStation, laptop, phone etc as they are always told to ask dad and we like treating them.
• always attends parents evening/ sports days/ open days etc
• pulls the kids up on bad behaviour and has no issues being hard when needed (rare!)

• Family life here is harmonious with my and our bio son 3
• we allow sleepovers and parties as we have a bigger house and space for them

Points where I can see issues maybe

• he doesn't really get involved in or enforce homework when they are with us which I've pulled him up on

• he does refuse to half school trips now as we paid for one at £120 only to find out the child didn't go and we didn't get that money back so he has refused to out towards any others ( we always give spending money) the kids would never miss out if they really wanted to go somewhere to be honest As we would sort it if we could.

• similar issue with uniforms he was buying shoes / bags etc but nothing was ever right and she wanted cash rather than him buy the items ( she took everything back ) so he stopped this and only only pays CSA to cover uniforms this is a area he won't budge on at all now and I do agree she gets enough to cover this for 2 children.

I guess I just want others opinions as a lot of my friends have Exs who do nothing and pay nothing yet we always get the worst words from from BMs mouth!

BM is married again with 3 other children with new husband just for info

refusing to contribute to uniform

But we know why that happened don't we?

No. You've imagined you do. But you've actually no idea and several people on this thread have raised valid reasons (meeting uniform requirements, children's preferences) as to why the mother requested specific items

@Veterinari when they are at our of course he does dinners and washing we both do it's not one over the other. These kids are 13,14and 17 so get their own meals sometimes too. They have a really good bond and he does spend proper time with each of them when they are with us.

I have held my hands up and agreed that he should be over involved in homework/ exams etc it's not that he doesn't care he just sometimes doesn't ask about it whereas I always do keep up to date with that stuff (maybe because I'm from a teaching background perhaps).

And if he worked less he'd pay less maintenance wouldn't he? Can't win!
Interesting then that he's not increased his contact since working less and paying less maintenance.

@Veterinari

refusing to contribute to uniform

But we know why that happened don't we?

No. You've imagined you do. But you've actually no idea and several people on this thread have raised valid reasons (meeting uniform requirements, children's preferences) as to why the mother requested specific items

Ah right so they're all right and I'm wrong? Ok then.

@Veterinari

And if he worked less he'd pay less maintenance wouldn't he? Can't win! Interesting then that he's not increased his contact since working less and paying less maintenance.

How do you know he's not tried to?! Oh wait! You don't!

As I've says several times these guys are all teens! Contact is when it also suits their social life, sometimes one kid will cancel one week because their best mate is having a sleepover or another one will come in the week if dads off.

We never cancel contact when it's agreed but if they want to change it's fine with us they are not young children

[quote Songbird232018]@Veterinari when they are at our of course he does dinners and washing we both do it's not one over the other. These kids are 13,14and 17 so get their own meals sometimes too. They have a really good bond and he does spend proper time with each of them when they are with us.

I have held my hands up and agreed that he should be over involved in homework/ exams etc it's not that he doesn't care he just sometimes doesn't ask about it whereas I always do keep up to date with that stuff (maybe because I'm from a teaching background perhaps).

[/quote]
That all sounds really positive OP,
It's helpful to have some context - you can see from this thread that there's a lot of assumption and guessing simply because you've given almost no context or relevant info. So it's tricky for anyone to actually answer your question which kind of defeats the point of posting it.

I still think parenting 4 days and a few dinners a month isn't a lot. And I do think the approach to gifts etc is rather Disney dad so can see why the mother has used that phrase. But it's impossible to get the nuances from a thread like this without a lot more context

Ah right so they're all right and I'm wrong? Ok then.

No idea. You're the one that knows everything so definitively

@Songbird232018

As I've says several times these guys are all teens! Contact is when it also suits their social life, sometimes one kid will cancel one week because their best mate is having a sleepover or another one will come in the week if dads off.

We never cancel contact when it's agreed but if they want to change it's fine with us they are not young children

Again helpful context - none of which was in your OP...

And who says it's not acceptable here? Mnhq never have and I don't personally think it should be up to the ex wives club to decide what can and can't be said on the step parenting board

Plenty of step parents agree it’s not acceptable!

And who the fuck do you think you are trying to define someone elses’s relationship with their own children?!

And plenty of step parents can be found hanging out on the lone parents board. Probably because many step parents have also been lone parents just as many ‘first wives’ are also step parents. Others are adult step children or parents trying to solve conflict in their children’s lives. Why do you insist on putting people in carefully defined boxes? Why the news to control people? Why not accept it’s OK to see things differently and just because you believe you’re right doesn’t make someone else wrong?

@Veterinari

On average raising a child in a single parent family costs around £185000 for 18 years. This includes everything.

So that would work out around 20,500 a year for both children. If their dad has them 25% of the time as stated in OP (6.5 weeks holidays on top of 4 nights a month) then effectively their dad is paying £8725 towards their upbringing which their mum doesn’t pay each year.

Their mum is left to pay £11775. Take into consideration that she will also receive child benefit. Mum will probably be paying around £120 extra per month. Under the proviso that dad should pay half, he is paying around £60 less a month to mum than it costs to raise them.

Given that he also has them for dinner in the evenings and buys them coats, shoes, playstations,pocket money, do you not think this would probably cancel out that £60 a month less he pays to mum.

I realise this is very elaborate, but it drives me mad when people jump on the ‘he pays bare minimum’ band wagon when they don’t really know what they are talking about. It is belittling a parent (in this case) who does actually provide pretty much fair and square.

I am commenting only on the monetary aspect of this post as you have mentioned several times as a contributing factor of why he is a lesser parent and if all info is correct, that is just not true.

How do 13-16 year olds earn money for those things?

Paperround, odd jobs, I worked in a fast food takeaway from 14 at 16 they can work in any supermarket, local shop. I understand it’s more difficult during Covid but generally speaking it’s pretty usual IME to be earning some form of money at that age.

*On average raising a child in a single parent family costs around £185000 for 18 years. This includes everything.

So that would work out around 20,500 a year for both children. If their dad has them 25% of the time as stated in OP (6.5 weeks holidays on top of 4 nights a month) then effectively their dad is paying £8725 towards their upbringing which their mum doesn’t pay each year.*

Also bearing in mind that the reduction in maintenance was only recent and that here Dad has supported a child that isn’t biologically his.

It gets better and better! So your OH reduced maintenance to his two kids but paid driving lessons to the child who he doesn't pay maintenance to because it's not his kid.

This is so blatantly a giving the fi fer to the mum, it's pathetic. Picking and choosing what suits him. Treats the eldest like his own, see him as often as the other, give him treats, but not enough his child to pay maintenance to his every day need.

That certainly is nowhere close to the definition of a good dad.

[quote Lucy830]@Veterinari

On average raising a child in a single parent family costs around £185000 for 18 years. This includes everything.

So that would work out around 20,500 a year for both children. If their dad has them 25% of the time as stated in OP (6.5 weeks holidays on top of 4 nights a month) then effectively their dad is paying £8725 towards their upbringing which their mum doesn’t pay each year.

Their mum is left to pay £11775. Take into consideration that she will also receive child benefit. Mum will probably be paying around £120 extra per month. Under the proviso that dad should pay half, he is paying around £60 less a month to mum than it costs to raise them.

Given that he also has them for dinner in the evenings and buys them coats, shoes, playstations,pocket money, do you not think this would probably cancel out that £60 a month less he pays to mum.

I realise this is very elaborate, but it drives me mad when people jump on the ‘he pays bare minimum’ band wagon when they don’t really know what they are talking about. It is belittling a parent (in this case) who does actually provide pretty much fair and square.

I am commenting only on the monetary aspect of this post as you have mentioned several times as a contributing factor of why he is a lesser parent and if all info is correct, that is just not true.[/quote]
Thanks that breakdown is helpful.

To be honest I think the mother's point still stands - he pays less towards their daily living costs and chooses to make up the shortfall (£60 quid/month or whatever) with luxury gifts that the mum can't afford because she has to spend her money on essentials.

My point has always been that he's choosing to prioritise fancy gifts over the basics. That point still stands even with your calculations It's the essence of Disney dad which is the term OP was asking about.

Clearly though plenty of people on this thread think that approach to fatherhood and spending fairly small amounts of time with your children is normal and fine.
As I've said several times, you aren't obliged to agree with me. The OP asked for views in his approach to fatherhood. I've given mine.

@Enoughnowstop

And who says it's not acceptable here? Mnhq never have and I don't personally think it should be up to the ex wives club to decide what can and can't be said on the step parenting board

Plenty of step parents agree it’s not acceptable!

And who the fuck do you think you are trying to define someone elses’s relationship with their own children?!

And plenty of step parents can be found hanging out on the lone parents board. Probably because many step parents have also been lone parents just as many ‘first wives’ are also step parents. Others are adult step children or parents trying to solve conflict in their children’s lives. Why do you insist on putting people in carefully defined boxes? Why the news to control people? Why not accept it’s OK to see things differently and just because you believe you’re right doesn’t make someone else wrong?

Who the fuck do I think I am? It's a factual description. It's not banned in the talk guidelines.

It's not me trying to tell people what they can't say is it?

Why can't people just back off the step parents board of they're just coming here to abuse people? Get a fucking hobby instead?

@dontdisturbmenow

It gets better and better! So your OH reduced maintenance to his two kids but paid driving lessons to the child who he doesn't pay maintenance to because it's not his kid.

This is so blatantly a giving the fi fer to the mum, it's pathetic. Picking and choosing what suits him. Treats the eldest like his own, see him as often as the other, give him treats, but not enough his child to pay maintenance to his every day need.

That certainly is nowhere close to the definition of a good dad.

He's got his own dad to pay maintenance did you miss that? Do you think he should pay for the 3 new kids too?? Ffs.

Also just another way of looking at the figures.

£185,000/18 years is £10,278/year or £856.5/month.

Father contributes £150, leaving £706/month for the mother. Yes she'll be eligible for tax credits etc. But those figures don't convince me he's dad of the year.

No and with impossible, ever changing criteria and a determination to pick fault he’ll never be adequate. Now we’ve ground the numbers and seen that actually that’s perfectly adequate we’ll see what other holes we can pick in him.

@Veterinari

Also just another way of looking at the figures.

£185,000/18 years is £10,278/year or £856.5/month.

Father contributes £150, leaving £706/month for the mother. Yes she'll be eligible for tax credits etc. But those figures don't convince me he's dad of the year.

How much do you think mum actually contributes financially working 2 mornings a week and having 6 kids? Just out of interest?

He's got his own dad to pay maintenance did you miss that? Do you think he should pay for the 3 new kids too?? Ffs
So he should let his dad pay for extra instead of robbing his own kids by treating the eldest.

What message is this giving to his own kids?

It's not banned in the talk guidelines

It's not banned in the talk guidelines because in some contexts in relation to parenting, it is not an unreasonable acronym to use.

You'd think it was rocket science.

So he should let his dad pay for extra instead of robbing his own kids by treating the eldest.

What message is this giving to his own kids?

So now you’re suggesting he tell the eldest with whom he’s clearly built a good relationship with, that he is prioritising his biological children?

Clearly the driving lessons alleviated some financial pressure from his Mother. It’s not like she doesn’t get any benefit from it. It’s just gone to a different pot - but means her household pot hasn’t been touched for that purpose.

Sorry but I think the mother (not BM) has a point. Your partner does sound like a Disney dad. Just because he is doing more then some deadbeats you know doesn't make him a saint.

The main thing that stands out is that he is prioritising giving the kids luxuries (that get kudos from kids) over providing for their basics through maintenance. I understand that his income had decreased this year, which is unfortunate (but not uncommon). However I think a responsible parent would try to still give as much as they can, and make cutbacks on extravagant gifts and parties instead. Effectively what he has done is force the mother to cut £60/month out of any luxuries she gives the kids, in order to keep them fed and house, on to of any decreased in her own income she would also have to absorb.

He doesn't need praise for paying CMS, this is the legal minimum he has to do for the children he created. And do you really think £35 a week really covers anywhere near half of the kids needs (including all trips and uniform).

[quote Lucy830]@Veterinari

On average raising a child in a single parent family costs around £185000 for 18 years. This includes everything.

So that would work out around 20,500 a year for both children. If their dad has them 25% of the time as stated in OP (6.5 weeks holidays on top of 4 nights a month) then effectively their dad is paying £8725 towards their upbringing which their mum doesn’t pay each year.

Their mum is left to pay £11775. Take into consideration that she will also receive child benefit. Mum will probably be paying around £120 extra per month. Under the proviso that dad should pay half, he is paying around £60 less a month to mum than it costs to raise them.

Given that he also has them for dinner in the evenings and buys them coats, shoes, playstations,pocket money, do you not think this would probably cancel out that £60 a month less he pays to mum.

I realise this is very elaborate, but it drives me mad when people jump on the ‘he pays bare minimum’ band wagon when they don’t really know what they are talking about. It is belittling a parent (in this case) who does actually provide pretty much fair and square.

I am commenting only on the monetary aspect of this post as you have mentioned several times as a contributing factor of why he is a lesser parent and if all info is correct, that is just not true.[/quote]
Is this the report you're referencing? cpag.org.uk/policy-and-campaigns/cost-child

In 2018, the additional basic cost of a child, from birth to age 18, was £75,147 for a couple family and £101,883 for a lone-parent family. If housing and childcare costs are added these rise to £150,753 and £183,335 respectively.

You've neglected to acknowledge that report indicates:

• The cost of a couple of raising a child for a couple is LESS than the cost a single parent has. Hence the single parent bears a greater burden of the cost, almost always on a lower income.
• You also indicate this covers everything, and whilst I can accept you may not realize how goods and services calculations are made ( I work with this kind of data...) it is no way a reflection of everything. Only modest 'basic' expenses are considered i.e. food, childcare, education, fuel etc.
• The report also assumes social housing cost, which in reality is not the case, therefore the single parent faces market housing costs. These higher costs mean they have to 'dip' into their budget to allocate more to housing.
• You will note the single parent suffers higher cost inflation year on year..
• Given the report and min. income considers basic goods and services only, the luxuries such as play station /phone / laptop irrefutably support the argument made by many that Op/her partner have greater disposable income.
• Contrary to your assertion the report demonstrates, consistently since 2012, that raising a child as a single parent is more expensive. This nullifies the argument that ''50/50'' is - fair and equitable.

With 4 nights a month, there is also a relative impact on the Mother's earnings power - which if she could increase night lessen the gap. Not everyone has the ability to earn more than a basic wage. .

I am not saying OP's partner should pay more, simply let's not pretend there are facts supporting that he bears an equal burden of either child cost or care. It's disingenuous to pretend that this is a level playing field.