Am I being unreasonable

[SSF8]

Bit of background. I have one DD age 11.
OH has one DD age 5 and we have one DS together who is 3 month old.
Basically OH's DD lives with her mam and shares a bedroom with her and gets cuddled to sleep all night (borderline child abuse in my eyes) she is almost 6! So when she comes to ours she expects the same thing. We gave her a bedroom, decorated it in unicorns at her request, all the decorations and fairy lights she wanted.... this was almost a year ago when we knew the baby would be arriving. We now have a 3 month old baby... my darling little stepdaughter still won't sleep alone. My other half is on her bedroom floor every weekend, leaving me to the night feeds while he's off work and could be giving me a break.
DS has started sleeping better and I am wanting to give him his own room and space as we now tend to wake him up coming to bed. If we don't wake him he sleeps from 7-5am (I know this from the number of times I've fell asleep on the sofa) DH won't let me give him his own room as he wants his daughter to have her own room when she sleeps. My daughter is 11 and would be happy to share with his 5 year old once a week IF she slept good .... but she doesn't!
What do I do. I'm at my wits end. I want everyone to be happy but I feel like we just argue constantly over our children!!

Sleep related anxiety isn't uncommon in children. My brother couldn't sleep alone until he was in secondary school and even until his twenties, he had to leave the light on. My parents were advised to leave him to sort himself out (ie leave him terrified and alone on his room) but it made it ten times worse. His behaviour at school and home was abysmal because he was ai tired and scared as bedtime approached.

It's one of those things that parents will assume was their doing because they did this or didn't do that. Most often, children just grow out of it.

Also, why does she have to share a bedroom with her mum? Is her mum receiving adequate maintenance to support a move to a 2 bedroom flat?

I'm not sure I'd have conceived another child if one of my kids were living in overcrowded conditions which I or my trusted partner considered bordering on abuse. Did you plan the youngest child knowing that one child in the family was still struggling to sleep independently?

If the mum is cuddling dsd for her own needs then it's not particularly great parenting and indicative of further parenting challenges. If the mum can't be fucked to sleep train and continues it then that's a different issue. Shit either way imo. My DC would come into my bed until about 6/7 but they always went to sleep in their own bed unless we were snuggled up watching a film ect.

Dsd does need to share with your dd. She might actually sleep having another person in the room!

I think most literature reviews on co-sleeping concluded that the rates of independent sleeping between those who co-slept and those who didn't were indistinguishable. They had similar rates of sleep disturbance in childhood.

There's a few things going on here and I think some things are reasonable and some things aren't. But to say you are being totally unreasonable is, I think, very unfair.

Firstly, your partner should be helping you with the night feeds. End of. People saying "he has three kids and needs to consider all their needs" are not being fair about the fact that a five year old should not need their dad all night, a baby will do. I don't think cosleeping is child abuse but I DO think children need to learn to sleep on their own by this age, and it's an incredibly silly and unrealistic choice when you are separated and your child moves between two houses. This is the mums fault, and a lot of mums who do this would undoubtedly turn around and say they are not comfortable with their child sharing a bed with the step parent so they know full well they are causing you a problem here, because they are sending their child with unnecessary sleep requirements into a household that can't naturally accommodate them, because your partner shares with you and in this case is also responsible for a baby.

It's very unlikely that you would be able to improve her problems with sleeping without the mum also working on it, if that is where she spends most of her time. I would reason with the mum that choosing not to teach her daughter how to sleep on her own is leading to her having to be upset every time she visits her other parent, because it's not possible at yours. A vast majority of children her age have learned to sleep by themselves and I do think that choosing not to teach them this knowing full well you are separated from their dad is often either deliberately obstinate or cruel, because you know their expectations can't be met elsewhere and set them up to fail anyway.

That said, it's very likely the ex will dig in her heels and refuse to adapt, in which case I would just stop your partner sleeping in there with her. It's a shame as she may be upset, but there's nothing you can do about the fact that at five she has no physical need for someone to be there with her and she simply needs to grow out of it. Your partner has a responsibility to do his share with his baby.

The bedroom is a bit more of a complicated issue, because I'm not sure why you decorated her bedroom as if it was going to be hers, knowing that in a years time you would need a room for the baby. Her sharing with your other daughter would not have been unreasonable, but it's more unreasonable to promise her a room and then take it away from her. It's still a bit early for your son to need his own room yet but obviously he eventually will and he will be living there full time, so it would be ridiculous for him not to have one while hers is empty most of the time.

We have recently moved to a bigger property so my baby daughter and 5yo SS can each have their own room, but before we moved we had my daughter in a travel cot and would move her into SSs room during the week when he wasn't there, and then back into ours for his visits, so it was only two nights out of every 14 that we were disturbing her sleep by being there. If I were you I would go with this solution for a good few months, whilst at the same time weaning your step daughter off cosleeping to get her to a better place sleep wise. Hopefully, when the time comes where your son simply needs that room, she will be a good enough sleeper where she and your older daughter view it as fun to share. You will have to hype it up like that, try and make her excited to move rooms.

If not, then sadly you'll have little choice but to move, but I do think a bit of tough love may be required to avoid this.

She needs to learn to sleep on her own and settle herself. She is 6 after all! Your son can't share your bedroom for ever, it makes sense for the girls to share. Your step daughter may want her own bedroom but with you having 3 bedrooms she can't and it's just one of those things. Lots of children share bedrooms. All 3 children need a fair go on parental time / attention / space. Your DP should help with the night feeds

How often does she stay over OP?

Also, she's 5. You moved in together a year ago, have a new baby, and a room that was made out to be hers with a big fanfare but now won't be because it's the nursery.

Can you honestly, taking a step back, not see how that is a hell of a lot for a wee lass of 5 to process? Practicality means that she'll have to share, I get that, but it's not been done very well at all has it? She's been shunted around to fit the plans you and her dad made, and expected to just fit in with it all with very little time to get her head around massive, massive changes.

I think your comments about her mother are uncalled for. I'm not one for cosleeping, never have been, but I don't consider it borderline child abuse! And maybe, just maybe, a confused wee lassie who has had a lot to process in the last year with very little empathy needs a cuddle from her Mum.

Stepmums get a rough time on here, often unfairly, but the way you explain things and the clear irritation towards a wee lassie is quite depressing.

You and he planned all these things. Fine, that's up to you. But fgs at least trying to understand why she might be struggling would be a start! She's only little.

If it's one night a week or a fortnight that he's not helping with feeds because he's with his DD, I think YABVVU. That's nothing if he's helping every other night.

She needs to learn to sleep in her room but with the current set up your house isn't the place to do it.
Mum needs to tackle it first.
If you hold the line at yours and she's sleeping with mum the rest of the week then it will be become a source of fear and anxiety for her. Visits to her dad for this child would be about the fear of bedtime. It will damage her relationship with everyone and she won't want to come.
At 6 at my mums I had a good bedtime routine and slept alone. At my dad's where I stayed a lot less I was still in him. People sleep less well in unfamiliar environments anyway (and a night a week is still unfamiliar).
Your dh is just going to accept for now that he needs to stay with her until the sleep is better.
Does she get on with the 11 year old? Would she want a special sleep over in her room with an audio book or something they can fall asleep too?

While development milestones are good guides, they aren't rules. Sure, most kids can sleep independently by aged 5 but a fair few cannot. Tricks and interventions often don't work and you have to literally wait until the child grows out of it over time.

With my brother, leaving him alone (think SuperNanny technique) ruined his schooling (at the time) and our home lives. Sure, maybe if my parents kept at it for another few months, it would have magically clicked but it would have meant several months of aggressive and hostile behaviour from him which would likely have got him expelled.

The other thing it mentioned here is that the mum (a single mum) would be kept awake by the distressed child. She could have work/study the next day and even if she doesn't, sleep deprivation is awful! The only way she might be able to cope is if she gets a solid night's sleep and that only comes if she co-sleeps.

How about Dad goes and stays at hers for a month so they can both take turns in good sleep hygiene practices? It would mean he could help you for a lifetime of night feeds afterwards if it works.

Mum needs to tackle it first.

I disagree that Mum should have to change long standing arrangements with her DD in their home because the SM has decided it's not right.

Mum isn't responsible for the changes in Dad's house any more than the wee girl is. It's the SM who has the problem, now suddenly everyone has to bend to that?

No chance. And I say that as a SM!

Would your dd be up for hosting a special "sleepover" with your dsd?
That way you could see how the pair of them get on sharing and if it goes well use it as a path towards the 2 of them sharing. You would have to be careful about dsd feeling that she has her own space at your house though.

@Kewlwife

How about Dad goes and stays at hers for a month so they can both take turns in good sleep hygiene practices? It would mean he could help you for a lifetime of night feeds afterwards if it works.

Dad goes and stays with his ex for a whole month, leaving OP alone to look after their three month old baby, in a plan that was not prearranged before the baby was born?

I'm literally struggling to think of a conversation that would have gone down less well between my partner and I, I would have absolutely flipped my lid if he'd suggested that to me. I would have thought he must be joking if he suggested staying anywhere else for a month this early into our baby's life, but with his ex??

I know you've said on other threads that you have a very strong relationship with your ex and your partner is comfortable with that, but this would be way beyond inappropriate for a majority of couples.

Intheheatoflusbon - with respect it’s a sleeping problem, it’s mums/dads territory. The location is irrelevant, her sleeping habits aren’t healthy. I remember doing controlled crying with my SD and although it worked and it was the best thing I could do for her I should never have had too. Her parents should be doing this. Also parents of 3 month old babies need there sleep too.

with respect it’s a sleeping problem, it’s mums/dads territory.

Its only a problem because her SM has decided it is.

The location is irrelevant, her sleeping habits aren’t healthy

Actually I think her sleeping habits aren't unhealthy given the enormous emotional upheaval and life changes she's having to deal with at 5.

Also parents of 3 month old babies need there sleep too.

Aye I do know that thanks, I've 3 of my own, along with 2 DSDs. Again, this wee lass has had a year of huge changes, new sibling/step sibling, new family dynamic with SM moving in with her dad only a year ago, and I think that OP is irritated because her DSD won't just fall in line.

I remember doing controlled crying with my SD and although it worked and it was the best thing I could do for her I should never have had too.

Did you discuss it with her Mum and Dad first? I think you overstepped.

It's been a year. One year, and she's 5 years old. So many posters expecting a level of emotional maturity from a wee lassie who has had a lot to deal with. It's ludicrous.

I made that suggestion purely because they chose to conceive a baby knowing that he already had a child who was not sleeping through the night and her mother was having to sleep with her every night. To me, it would have been more logical to prioritise sorting that child into a consistent and stable sleeping schedule which allowed her parents to have some space at night. Instead, her mother is being solely blamed for what could be a result of both parent's actions or just one of those things.

Now they are in a situation where they have a new baby, the OP is annoyed that this sleep thing is stopping her partner from doing what she feels is fair in terms of parenting, and the child is still not sleeping alone. Surely prioritising this issue now and working together with the person who has her most would be most sensible for the long term.

I think forget petty insecurities about cheating or whatever and do what likely should have been done a long time ago. The child's parents and anyone else adult who loves her should have clubbed together to agree a plan or agree that there won't be much of a plan and you'll just wait it out. It's unrealistic to expect a parent (in this case her mum) to forego sleep every night for what could be months or even years, alone, because a new partner doesn't like the thought of him staying with an ex. If she is very interested in an intervention that encourages independent sleep so her partner can help with night feeds on weekends, then helping her mum stick to those rules by being there and taking some of the load would be the most logical thing to do.

The alternative is to shame the mother for her child having sleep related anxiety and leave her alone to deal with it all while complaining that your partner isn't available enough to fairly help with the children you have made together.

@Ae18

That last post was in response to yours.

I have to also add that while the mother has to sleep with her daughter every night, the chances of her sustaining or obtaining a relationship are remote. So she likely doesn't have the opportunity to have other children and build a life like the non-resident parent has had.

@Kewlwife

Cheating insecurities aside, leaving your partner for a whole month to go stay with your ex for most people is just flat out inappropriate. A week, maybe, but even then... most people want and need clearer boundaries than that.

There's also the message it sends to the little girl who might be harbouring the hope her parents will be getting back together, as well. Very confusing for her.

I agree that if she won't sleep at all in her own bed, it's harsh for the mother to have to tackle this by herself, but if she wants help it would be much more reasonable for the daughter to stay at her dads on a more even basis so they are both dealing with the nights, rather than do what you're suggesting. That's just not fair on anyone apart from the mum, and should really be out of the question now there is a baby in the equation. He needs to be at home bonding with his child.

BM eventually gave me permission as soon as I told her it was disrupting my household and she couldn’t sleep over anymore. It is unhealthy. Children with co-sleeping habits do struggle with attachment issues. She’s young so nip it in the bud. If you reread your posts I think you contradict yourself - intheheat. Children are much more robust than we give them credit for.

I agree that if she won't sleep at all in her own bed, it's harsh for the mother to have to tackle this by herself, but if she wants help

Nowhere has OP said the mother wants to stop it, not once. It is OP who wants it stopped.

He needs to be at home bonding with his child.

She's his child too, so it's ok for him to be up in the night with the baby but not his DD who is struggling?

BM eventually gave me permission as soon as I told her it was disrupting my household and she couldn’t sleep over anymore

I'm glad DS1s SM isn't so demanding. If she'd said that to me I'd have said fair enough, no overnights then. And explained to DS1 why.

No wonder SMs get such a shit time when there are attitudes like that!

Tell me, if your own children don't sleep at night, do you ban them from your home too?

If you reread your posts I think you contradict yourself - intheheat

Where exactly? Because I don't see it.

@AE18
Staying over more with a stepmother who refers to her as "darling SD" and is generally resentful that her partner has to do this at all? I can't see how that's a good idea. Particularly as the OP also wants to take back her room there.

From the sounds of it, OP only expects night time help from partner on the weekends but he doesn't do that anyway due to his daughter's sleep anxiety. He could spend a lot of time with the whole family and even sometimes his daughter could be alone with her mother, but for a month, he returns back to hers for bedtime routine and sleeps on the sofa or whatever plan they are doing to encourage independent sleep.

The boundaries are clear. They are in a monogamous relationship I assume so surely he isn't desiring sexual or romantic intimacy with other people (including exes). If she's having to make rules to control who he is intimate with then that's a different thread about whether monogamy is working for them as a couple. It has nothing to do with what needs to be done by co-parents to create a healthy and liveable environment for everyone.

@InTheHeatofLisbon

Nowhere has OP said the mother wants to stop it, not once. It is OP who wants it stopped.

Actually she did say mum agrees she should be sleeping on her own but does nothing about it. A lot of commenters have been going with the assumption that the reason she does nothing about it is because her daughter has sleep anxiety and the mum doesn't get any sleep when she tries. So I was responding specifically with what could be done IF she wants help tackling this issue. If she doesn't want it to change, then personally I would leave her to it but still continue to encourage change when she visits dad, as it isn't practical to cosleep there because dad has a partner he chooses to sleep with, and a baby who has no choice but to wake in the night that he needs to do his share with, especially if he doesn't help all week due to work.

Just as the mum doesn't HAVE to change her methods for his sake, he doesn't have to follow her methods in his house, and in this case it isn't practical to do so.

She's his child too, so it's ok for him to be up in the night with the baby but not his DD who is struggling?*

You're missing context here, I said he needs to be at home bonding with his baby in response to a comment saying he could spend a month living with his ex to sort out his older daughters sleep problems. I don't think it's appropriate for him to spend a whole month away from his baby at this crucial stage of bonding with his newborn baby, or to leave his partner as a sole parent for a full month without having discussed it before conceiving. Obviously he should continue his bond with his older daughter but under the terms of the existing contact agreement or in his own family home, not by spending a month just with her and his ex.

He doesn't need to be completely away for a whole month. Just sleep ar his exes for that time.

Also, he isn't choosing to sleep with his partner. He's actually choosing to sleep with his daughter because of her issues around independent sleep.

She’s a 5 yo whose parents don’t live together. Last year she was likely introduced to you, you gave her her own room, then got pregnant and now she has to lose it to ‘share’ your much older daughter’s room. But it’s not actually sharing is it because by your logic it would be your daughter’s room.

Who pays for your house? If it’s your partner how would he feel that his dd didn’t get her own room but your dd would. If that were me I’d be furious particularly because at 3 months it’s safer for your son to sleep in the same room as you anyway.