Parental Alienation

[fatoldandbroke]

There is currently an open petition to introduce a law that recognises Parental Alienation as a criminal offence, that seems to be gaining some momentum. 6500 signatures and the government has to respond at 10000 signatures. This form of abuse affects Mums, Dads, Step parents, Grandparents and wider family.
Rather depressingly, twice as many people have signed a petition asking for a law to protect brown hares!?!
Hopefully this link will work, but I am a computer biff so if it doesn't please could someone who knows what they are doing post it?
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/249833

You keep stating what you want but give no indication of how you will get it without causing more damage. You've been asked numerous times how but just keep spouting the same reaponse.

Law is difficult to draft and even more difficult to police.

Contrary to what you keep saying it is about the parents AND the child. Without either there is no parental alianation. So you have to diacuss all aspects.

You've been told numerous tales of parents stating alianation when in relaity it is their own parentimg style that has caused it.

You've been asked how you would protect from abusive parents taking advantage of this and you cry think of the children. Who do you think the children would end up with if the abusive parent is successful in their alienation claim?

Its so much bigger than simply saying protect the kids and your nativity is shown every time you throw back "at least someone cares" when you dont get the response you want.

More irrelevant comment.
The mechanism is not yet relevant. The principle that PA is child abuse and should be criminalised is the question?
Yes, you can leave now.

Naivety* not nativity

You realise im not there with you dont you?

The mechanism is extremely relevant. Scary that you don't see that.

Can i suggest we all stop giving this thread and the attached petition oxygen?

And perhaps report the op too as this petition is highly unlikely to increase positive outcomes for women and children's safety.

Now we are involving Fathers groups and Mothers groups?? A lot of people seem to want to make this more complicated than it is?
It appears to be broadly agreed that the manipulation of children is abusive and damaging.
Should this type of abuse be criminalised or not?
From now on, I will ignore the terminally self interested and stupid. We can all see who you are and every responsible parent will rightly ignore you. 😎

The mighty toosh......I understand what you are saying and you may be correct, but please don’t genderise this issue. Anyone can be an abuser. This is not a gender issue and it’s probably unhelpful to think of it in those terms.
Everyone right thinking adult should be concerned about this. It doesn’t matter if you are affected or not.
The protection of children from any form of abuse is the responsibility of everyone.

Unfortunately for all your pretence of 'ungendered' presentation, you know full well that this will disproportionately affect female victims of dv who were simply trying to protect their children from violent men.

The research has been done, recommendations were made and incorporated into family court guidelines.

All info is available via Women's Aid for those who are interested in the stats from a respectable organisation rather than an internet random with a petition and an axe to grind.

Rufflecrow............I have already indicated that I will ignore the terminally self interested and stupid.
Vague references to research, women’s aid, statistics etc. demonstrate to us all the category you fall into.
I imagine that you will quote women’s action next............the biased judges will arrive shortly 😂
More irrelevant comment.

Ah, yep we've got your number too.

MRA trolls used to do better than flinging baseless insults about - you're really letting the side down.

I'm going to join everyone else in ignoring you now.

@fatoldandbroke you are coming across as self interested. You assume that parental
Alienation is a mother’s issue. The NRP or RP can both be guilty of parental alienation.

I’m torn on what some people classify as parental alienation. I do think that children have the right to know the truth about certain situations for example if the NRP doesn’t pay maintenance why should the RP lie if asked directly.

Neglect is a massive issue that is ignored by so many but you are arguing about criminalising something which is even harder to prove and to separate from a child picking up on vibes between parents.

Faithless 12 I sincerely hope that I have not given the impression that PA is a gender specific issue. I don’t think it is and I think I have tried to convey that view. Maybe I haven’t made myself clear enough?

10864 internet randoms with an axe to grind?
Maybe we will catch the brown hares?

Imo the majority of claims of parental alienation are false....a tool used by abusive men to further abuse women and children with.

Its generally where women stand up to abuse and children suss out a deadbeat.

I know one case where a wife was threatened with residency reversal if she did not encourage contact with and speak kindly of the father who spent 4 years in prison for sexually abusing their daughter. The family court system is broken.

OP won't be signing this as the law isn't prepared to deal with more obvious forms of child abuse when it is occurring. It waits until the child is damaged before doing anything.

I know somebody who is going through some form of 'Parental Alienation' at the moment.

The mother has a new boyfriend and wants him to be 'daddy'. She wants to wipe the child's father out of their lives. She wants to play happy families with the new boyfriend.

She has defied court ordered contact many times, making up excuses that the child is 'sick'. Forgetting that her social media is public and the child is having a wail of a time with the new daddy, lots of holiday pics etc.

When the child actually sees their father, they are ecstatic and run over shouting 'daddy daddy!'.

This is not an abused child.

I know plenty of mothers who use their child to punish the father, for a number of reasons.

I also know of one mother who was put in hospital by her Ex and quite rightly, that fucker should never be allowed contact again. Kids were terrified of him.

@LazyLizzy that sounds like my dp's ex. She has her new dp being called daddy and the dc is so confused by who's meant to be called what and what his last name is because at school it x and at home it's y.

Worse of all the crap she causes and games to play happy families is that her dp has 3 other dc he has stop seeing just so she can have her, him, dc and their new lo.

People forget it's not just the dc in the home that get affected it's the other dc too.

Just so the ex can play happy families 6 other dc from both sides are missing out on normal family time.

I also know of one mother who was put in hospital by her Ex and quite rightly, that fucker should never be allowed contact again. Kids were terrified of him.

So this is the issue.

When that 'fucker' is allowed contact with his children - because he will be - and uses that contact to abuse the children, nobody will be able to prove that he's doing it. He will then be able to accuse the mother of parental alienation when the children don't want to attend contact and she will have no way to defend herself.

Now make parental alienation a crime and you have created a situation where the mother cannot keep her children safe without risking a custodial sentence and having her children removed and handed over to live with the 'fucker' full time.

It's better to err on the side of letting some RPs get away with parental alienation than go the other way and have children removed from loving parents and placed with abusers.

Please don't say it wouldn't happen. The family court system is dreadfully flawed and is manipulated by coercive controllers far too often already.

For anyone who may be interested:

"ICD-11 Includes Parental Alienation Numerous, members of
PASG helped bring about this recognition.
By William Bernet, M.D., President, Parental Alienation Study Group
FOR THE FIRST TIME, the term “parental alienation” is included in the new edition of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-11). Parental alienation is not a separate diagnosis in ICD-11, but is
considered a synonym or an index term for a specific diagnosis, that is, caregiver-child relationship problem (QE52.0). The final version of ICD-11 is freely available on the Internet at icd.who.int/.
Go to that link and then to “ICD Browser.” You can easily search for “parental alienation” and “parental estrangement.” Both terms are recognized because they are in the Index of the three-volume set of
ICD-11. Both terms take the reader to the diagnosis of caregiver-child relationship problem. That is what ICD personnel have been telling us for more than a year, that is, that alienation and estrangement
are considered “index terms” for caregiver-child relationship problem. We knew all along that parental alienation would not be a separate diagnosis, but was considered an alternative term for caregiver-child
relationship problem. If you ask me, I think it is correct to say, “Parental alienation is in ICD-11.” Also, “PA is considered another name for caregiver-child relationship problem.” Also, “ICD-11 recognizes the reality of PA,” and so on."

Nearly 13000 signatures. Tell everyone. Anyone could be affected by this problem. Mothers, Fathers, Grandparents, Siblings, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts etc. The petition is open until October.
It ain't over till the fat lady........stops you seeing the kids and turns them against you?

Your agenda here is boringly transparent op. Especially with the goady updates on a thread where almost everyone disagrees with you

Thanks @RuffleCrow, that report is very interesting and explores how the idea of ‘parental alienation’ is currently used to:

1. silence children who are trying to report abuse
2. to stop the non-abusive parent from protecting their children
3. and to continue the abuse of survivors of domestic abusers via the court system

I absolutely agree that children need to be protected from all forms of child abuse. So let’s start by having a system that believes the child and hears their voice first, rather than building in more ways of silencing that child. There is already an inability within the courts to stop abusers from using the system to persecute their victims, so I fail to see how encoding a key way for abusers to put their own desires above the needs of the child can ever be ‘a good thing’, no matter how pure the original intention.

Parental rights should come way down after the child’s rights. And that’s both parents rights, because each parent should have responsibilities and the children should have rights. Something that the family courts system appears to have moved away from in recent years. Any move that further enables the courts to move away from the child’s basic rights, cannot be right.

Children should have the right to be heard, and to be believed. They have the right to be safe, and to be kept away from people who abuse them physically, or emotionally.

We teach children that all they have to do is to tell an adult, and they will be believed, and they will be protected, and the abuse will stop. That’s what we teach children from an early age. It’s devastating that so many children then find out that this isn’t true for them. Because the courts have decided to enforce contact where the child is clearly saying they are scared, upset or suffering some kind of abuse. As seeing both parents at any cost is more important than that child’s happiness and wellbeing. That both parents having access to that child, is more of a priority than the child themselves. Which is monstrous betrayal of that child by the system that is supposed to be all about the child.