Broken

[pastel01]

I’ve just come out of a relationship and have been reading people’s stories on this forum.
I know kids don’t ask for their parents to break up and meet someone new. I appreciate that’s tough. However, I do feel that people get a hard time on here when they say they dislike their stepchildren. We’re only human! It isn’t easy when you’re doing your best in return to be totally unappreciated and looked down on.
My ex partner of 4 years had 4 children, 2 older children from one relationship, 2 children from another (boy 13, girl 12). He has them eow and one evening a week. We never lived together. At first everything was great. Got on with them well, never tried to be their mum, never in their face. We introduced my two children (dd14 and ds13) and all was good. Dp’s daughter loved me, was always filming me videos telling me how much she loved me, wanted to call me mum and was constantly saying how she wanted me & her dad to get married.
About a year in the boy started to be rude to me and dp did not correct him.
We had many rows about this and it wasn’t perfect but things improved. Nearly two years ago we went on a holiday. Dp’s son was a nightmare - when dp did correct him he would scream he hated his dad and he was a rubbish dad and he never wanted to see him again. It got to the point where all three other kids had had enough of him too. After him consistently carrying on without any correction from dp I lost it and told him off. He argued back. We did manage to sort it out but it did cause problems for me and dp.
A few weeks after that dp’s daughter was very off with me and went to her bedroom & stayed there all day. She kept asking to go to her nan’s (her mum was away for the weekend). In the evening dp told me that she didn’t like me. I went to have a chat with her and ask her what I’d done. She was so cold and unfeeling and said she just didn’t like me but wouldn’t give me a reason. I was so upset I went home with my two kids. Dp’s older daughter was crying about it and hugged me goodbye.
I gave dp’s daughter space, didn’t visit when she was there then she stopped seeing her dad altogether. Said he’d told her off for the way she’d been to me. She also admitted to reading a message to me on his mobile where he said a child shouldn’t split us up. She told him he’d chosen me over her and that if he didn’t split up with me she wouldn’t see him again. She told him she wouldn’t cry at his funeral. She cut all his side of the family off.
That was 18 months ago. Since then dp has seen her a handful of times. He messages her positively and for the most part has been totally ignored. She did send him a message to say she couldn’t bare to see me again and was surprised he was still with me (towards the end of last year). Dp’s ex said it had nothing to do with her and was keeping out of it but did agree to take her to counselling at the beginning but it didn’t assist in her wanting to see dp.
Dp and I had a great relationship. We only ever rowed about this issue & Ive walked out many a time out of feeling a sense of responsibility but always went back because I missed and loved him.
Last week dp received a text from his daughter to say she wanted to see him at the weekend. Naturally he was delighted but it hit me that I could never like or trust this child again. Yes, I know I’m the grown up and there must be underlying issues but it made me realise that she may still not want me in her life and Im not prepared to hang around waiting to see dp when she’s not around.
So I ended it. Dp has never wanted to break up with me over this but he’s stuck in the middle of a situation and Ive realised that his 12 year old daughter needs her dad far more than I need a boyfriend. Life sucks sometimes!

Magda72 oh believe me, it's taken a very large chunk of my life to get to this point [hollow laugh]. But DC should never be given power to dictate to their DPs the choices that the DPs make. DC's needs should always be taken into consideration, particularly when DPs are divorcing or forming new relationships, but handled correctly, it should be possible for DPs to move on romantically without it a) traumatising their DC or b) causing a rift between them. This point by stealthmode is spot on I increasingly think that the amount of issues SM’s especially have is that the vast majority of their partners (in the main men) are woefully unequipped to have emotionally difficult conversations with their own children. So they take the easy route.

@stealth I'm laughing reading that as I remember having a counselling session with dp who told the counsellor I was jealous of the time he spent with his kids. I said to both of them that I wasn't at all jealous but rather frustrated that when dp was with his kids all other aspects of his life seemed to cease - & I didn't mean for a few hours I meant for entire weekends; I could txt him & hear nothing for hours or even overnight. Or for eg he'd tell me he'd be home by X time on Sunday & to put his name in the pot for food & then he'd waltz in 2 hours late having eaten 'cos the boys wanted a burger but wouldn't have thought to let me know!
Counsellor then suggested to him that he was possibly projecting the kids' jealousy of me & his inability to marry the different strands of his life onto me. Took him weeks to get his head around that one!
You're so right in all you say & it does take a lot of hard, personal work to try navigate this stuff successfully.

magda I hear you loud and clear. Hence my comment re the intensity and unhealthy emotional chain of dynamics it sets off.

My DP used to be the exact same. All of life as we knew it ground to a halt. And from the moment they arrived they would all move in a pack, to the total exclusion of everyone else, including my children. I couldn’t put my finger on it for ages, about what it was that was going on. Then I stepped back and watched. And saw that my DP simply didn’t give his DC any space. Because he saw them so little, he was glued to them and if then did step away (even to pop to the toilet) his DC were immediately ‘daddy, daddy’. He as the adult had created this very real physical attachment, constantly interveninh even if other adults present (not just me) were interacting with the children.

The children had not set the tone, he had. The children were not the ones giving everyone space to let relationships evolve naturally, he was the one taking the space.

His kids. His parenting. Not my place to interfere and so I stepped back. And got accused of being jealous. I simply said that it was for him to parent as he pleased but that he was setting himself up to some incredibly difficult years ahead as he was setting the tone of how these children expected their time to be with him.

Him and them to the exclusion of everyone else.

If I did a fraction of what he does with his DC. Firstly my DC would ask me if I was ok. And then having ascertained that either I (or they) were not dying, they would then ask me to leave them alone and give them space (and quite rightly too).

If we want to raise independent children, independent thinkers, this means we need to give them emotional and physical space to grow. I believe that becomes incredibly hard for some divorced parents to do. Where contact battles become so emotive and intense all of that emotional angst is channelled towards the poor children. With levels of intensity that aren’t healthy.

"Could it simply be their df had dc from one relationship that ended had another set of dc which again ended and now he’s with you who has dc and feeling replaced by you’re dc. He doesn’t particularly have a good track record. If you don’t live together I don’t understand the push for contact to be with you and you’re dc all the time, he needs to see them separately a year in and you being constantly there with you’re dc would be enough to cause resentment from the dc who rarely see their df and having his attention divided 6 ways or 7 if you include yourself"
There is an assumption that I never gave dp's children space with their dad when I didn't mention the time I spent with the children, only the amount of time dp saw his dc. Dp's children have plenty of time with their father on their own. It has got to the point where I only see dp's son once a month on the weekend he has him but it was never all the time originally.
However, in order to develop a relationship, it's hardly going to get serious if you don't see each other with the dc.
There was also another assumption that I took over parenting of dp's children - this never happened. Yes, I snapped because dp's son was driving everyone crazy and something needed to be said because his dad wasn't going to. I'm not going to admit to being the perfect human being but we do all have our limits and by the sounds of it the same things that irritate me are the same things that irritate a lot of parents on this forum!
Dp's ex and ex mil are very controlling. I believe there is definite alienation arising in this instance. The derogatory comments that dp's children have relayed to us about what dp's ex and ex mil have said about us all, the lowest being about the appearance of my son!
Thank you everyone for your comments. I know I'm not alone but sometimes you need to hear it!

Dp's ex wife left him for another man who she moved in pretty much immediately. They're now married and have a blended family. It seems we've been cautious for the sake of the children and are suffering as a consequence.

The truth is if and this is why we have failed is that we never had a united front.

i think as well a lot of men just want an easy life. They tell everyone what they want to hear and eventually that catches up with them.

A lot fear their ex's so will swap contact round left right and centre, do whatever they say because they're worried if they don't they wont see their kids. They piss their new partner off by doing this.

They parent their "first family" children differently to their "new family" children, and this just makes the inequalities all the more obvious.

I think a lot of the time they expect far too much from the new partner in regards to their children, i think that as a step mother you're expected to just waltz in gracefully when they want you, and back the fuck off when they don't want you, but they don't tell you this you're just expected to have some kinda step parenting sixth sense and know what to do without offending anyone.

I think men make more successful step parents because on the whole they're slotting in to a nice established routine, where the woman has been looking after the kids single handedly anyway, and has her shit under control. Its not that hard to move into a household with kids if you're prepared to do that.

i think women struggle as stepmothers more because a lot of the time regular contact isn't established, there is no routine, your roll isn't really clear, and to be perfectly honest a lot of men just haven't a clue with their kids because until splitting they've not often been responsible for them on their own for more than a day or so!

@PlantPotParrot - well said!

I think men make more successful step parents because on the whole they're slotting in to a nice established routine
I think men find it easier because they don't consider themselves amateur educational psychologists who know better than the parents how their step children should be brought up to become young adults to be proud of.

No parent can be sure they are bringing up their kids to become balanced happy respectful children. All we have is the principles that make us believe we are doing the right thing. The problem comes when a step parent becomes convince the parent is doing things wrong and put pressure on them that they should change their way because they know better. That's almost always the main issue of conflict.

My stepmum was convinced I was heading to be a troubled adult. I lacked boundaries, I wadnt taught good manners, I was let to be selfish etc...and she constantly bageoned my dad to be stricter with me. He didn't agree with her, he thought she was too tight and needed to relax. She used to get so upset though everytime he didn't do what she said he should. Thankfully for me, he stood by his principles and in the end, I turned out to be much closer to her than her own daughter who she raised with her own principles.

I totally understand setting house rules when you live together but it often goes further than that bringing on educational principles and thats when kids usually start rejecting the step parent.

We all learn as we go as parents/Step parents. I certainly learned a lot about myviwn principles. However, my kids are my kids so I could decide myself on which ones I believe was best for thrm with their dad. They didn't need further parties to interfere with yet more educational principles.

I think men find it easier because they don't consider themselves amateur educational psychologists who know better than the parents how their step children should be brought up to become young adults to be proud of

if that's aimed at me you couldn't me any more wrong, I have never taken an "active role" in parenting my step child. I have done the things a parent would like feed him, wash his clothes, pick him up from school, buy him things but I don't discipline him and I certainly don't think I know better than his parents. They can bring him up how they see fit, he is their child not mine and frankly I don't want that responsibility!

However, I will say something If I think DP is ignoring something which will become an issue, but I don't push it. For example if SS is rude to him, or me, I would mention it to him because I find it unacceptable. I wouldn't tell SS off myself, but I would expect him to at least consider my opinion on it. I don't think that's unreasonable, or anything comparable to being an amateur psychologist.

I do think as well though its hard when you have different rules in each house. Dss for example is actually like a different person when he's with his mum, doesn't have to eat proper food, is allowed to swear, watch 18 films, play xbox all night, goes out when he wants. None of that happens at our house and I think he has more cheek with us because his mother lets him think he's an adult, and then when we remind him he is 14 he doesn't like it.

He has recently moved back in with her for the freedom, I am just waiting for it to end in tears though to be honest!

@PlantPotParrot I think your posts are spot on!
My ex has remarried and my dc therefore have a stepmum. They do have a whinge to me about her but anything I've heard has never been enough for me to be worried about their welfare or get involved. Sometimes I've even supported her! I can't stand my ex but I love my kids far more than I hate him to see that it is healthy for children to have a great relationship with both parents.

Counsellor then suggested to him that he was possibly projecting the kids' jealousy of me & his inability to marry the different strands of his life onto me. Took him weeks to get his head around that one!

I wish I’d had your counselor, she sounds spot on!

Once unhealthy dynamics like step kids being given too much power over adults occur, I think it gets very messy. It is seldom as clear as a step child saying ‘ I don’t want SM to be in a relationship with my Dad, get out’.

Instead, it’s silences from DSCs, ignoring, changes negatively to a step parent out of the blue, ex wives jumping on any negativity towards SM and blowing these into a fire...

It is guilty Dads ‘forgetting’ to contact new GF when they are with their kids, for fear of upsetting their kids even slightly, or of being over the top defensive if SM wants DSC to clear their plate or say thank you. Everything is blown out of proportion and skewed.

I also think there is a territorial and psychological aspect. Particularly as studies show it is teenagers and young adult DSCs, particularly girls and SMs, that fare worse. If it were more often about vulnerable children and wicked SMs, then the opposite would be true.

My DSD became increasingly competitive with me. In the year before she left, she became angry if she wasn’t given parenting roles for our baby. Very angry. She increasingly began to ignore me, but insisting she didn’t have to go to her Mums, and spending more time with me whilst DP was working.

She’d cuddle up to DP in the evenings and talk with him, and he took her out to comedy shows and meals out as she requested. She was 18. He actually stopped taking me out at all. It was as if, unconsciously she was asserting herself as the dominant female in the house. I know that sounds like a David Attenborough programme but it’s what it felt like! I think she was growing as a woman, confused as to her role, and took one that her DP and mum responded and encouraged.

Eventually I tried to bring this up into the open, and said that me and my son found it hurtful to be ignored. She shouted at me that I had no right to talk to her, ran crying to DP and told him that she couldn’t live with me anymore. He asked his ex to take her back, she agreed temporarily, but then got fed up and demanded DP take her back. DP was very moody, refused to talk to me for months, and instead took DSD out every week.

After 6 months, he told me we needed to take DSD back, and I said I can’t do it anymore. I can’t be a full time SM to a young adult, who clearly hates me and tries to dominate family life. I can’t put my kids through that anymore. I’d rather separate than do it, and I totally understood if DP wanted to live with DSD elsewhere.

So these things do get out of hand! If I had to do it again I’d be more assertive of my own and my sons needs. We all have a line.

I totally understand setting house rules when you live together but it often goes further than that bringing on educational principles and thats when kids usually start rejecting the step parent. *

So you think a step parent should not have an opinion on step childrens choices/DH parenting only on house rules? I used to help step daughter with maths in the past, is it overstepping?
Nowadays I give my opinion on uni choices, which halls to go for..contraception..She doesn't talk to her dad about it..

I also give my opinion on curfew...Because she lives in my house, is my sons sister and I can't imagine not having input on parenting her..What if I don't agree with DH? We reach a compromise when it comes to our DS and it's the same with SD.

When I left parenting to DH only it was a disaster to our relationship...he was soft I was feeling marginalised and resentful, SD was trying to be in charge and acting out..I have no doubt it worked for them when he was single but when you enter a serious relationship you want to last you have to share you parenting "power" with your spouse..

I’ve read many threads by now, and the vast majority of problems are not caused a SM having an opinion about schooling!

They are not the result of overbearing busy body SMs trying to interfere.

I’m not saying this never happens, but I don’t see it often and the SM rightly does get told to back off.

I myself was very gentle with my step kids. I only bought up rules that affected the home, and even then I did this very gradually. 95% remained the step kids preference / DPs parenting.

It didn’t make a scrap of difference to the problems of resentment and unhealthy dynamics that built up.

Bananasinpyjamas11

You had your DP working against you. He should have asked for your input and respected it. He should have demanded respect for you from SC and made it absolutely clear your preferences were equal in standing with his and above SCs. He should have never picked SC over you when it come to cuddling on a sofa in the evening or going out for a show. It's messed up.

Plantpot, no it wasn't aimed at you specifically, just responding to the quote.
For example if SS is rude to him, or me, I would mention it to him because I find it unacceptable
And I think that's fine but he should have a choice to decide how he wants to deal with it.

My ds went through the 'rude' stage when he was 13 or so. Answering back, talking to me in an agressive voice whrn I asked for something, slamming doors. It infuriated my oh who kept telling me I needed to tackle it by punishing him. I considered that most of it was hormonal and although I would pick him up on it, I wouldn't make a big deal of it like my oh thought I should and indeed, he was convinced his behaviour would get worse.

He was wrong. Like most boys his age, that phase passed and he is now very pleasant to me. I wasn't concern because his teachers always mentioned how lovely he was, so I knew it was just his, way to let his hormonal anger out. No big deal.

The difference is that I trusted my gut feeling that he would indeed come out of it because I do trust the capabikities of my ds whereas dh didn't...because he isn't his kid.

I do agree that the line between rules and educational principles can be blurry but I think rules should be around specific things the kids should do to make life together more agreeable for all rather than what the sp thinks they should do for their future.

Swingofthings the trouble with that is when families are blended it's not fair on step parents to have to allow step children to be rude to them or to their children just because their parent might not have an issue with it. My DSS quite happily walks into my home and ignores me when I even say hello to him. I shouldn't have to put up with that in my own home. It's often not hormones but just bad manners. My OH isn't always there to pull DSS up on his bad behaviour if he's in another room or whatever, so I have to either allow him to treat me like dirt in my own home or pull him up on it myself.

@swingofthings I think you make a really good point there. However I think a lot of nrp's don't have a great gut when it comes to their dc. Or rather they do but they choose to ignore it, OR they doubt themselves & don't trust it as soon as it's queried by the dc or the ex.
My dp is a very emotionally intelligent man but it never ceases to amaze me how that goes out the window when it comes to his dc. Over time I've come to realize that he does know there are behavioral & other issues but as a pp said (@PlantPotParrot I think) he just can't handle the emotion of dealing with them and as a result he is in a default setting when with the dc resulting in behaviours not get checked or called out when they should. In my dp's case I think he himself is so emotionally scarred from his marriage that he just can't let himself even think that the kids might have suffered the way he did so he just keeps telling himself they're fine; haven't been damaged by the their marriage/post divorce fall out; have no problems with me or my kids; have no problems with school; are being funny rather than rude; are being boys rather than lazy sods etc. - he wants to believe everything is just fine because if he acknowledges anything else then he & exw have to accept responsibility for dragging their kids through a shit marriage (which is was) & for having a woeful post divorce relationship.
All that being said he has been going to a counsellor (post couples counselling) for the last 8 months or so & finally seems to be making headway in himself, in that he seems to be seeing the dynamic between him & his dc, & his dc & their dm much more clearly. In fact I heard him use the word dysfunctional for the first time last week & he is far more inclined to say no to the dc & to call out certain things that are going on.
I know there are dad's who just want a new partner to take on the role of extra parent but I also think there are a lot of dads who are honestly just like rabbits in the headlights post divorce & who really do need professional help.
It's telling that more women than men will seek counseling and support post separation/divorce.

@whitecat yes but it seems so clear to us, on the outside looking in, but these things develop over time. Like the OPs situation. It has built up. DP in my case really did try. He insisted DsD was not rude, and reminded her, but as soon as time went on she just reverted but usually in a way that DP couldn’t even see. He did pull her up on some stuff like not saying thank you for dinner and she punished him by going to her mums and moaning that I was being unbearable so then ex would give DP an earful. By that time he’d forgotten what it was about... get tired... felt guilty...

Managing a blended family takes some skills! And a lot of juggling. I think many men can’t cope and just take the easy route, or one that pulls them most ie guilt.

but I also think there are a lot of dads who are honestly just like rabbits in the headlights post divorce & who really do need professional help
I totally agree with this. I think many fsthers should spend more time thinking about who they are as a dad, seeking help if necessary so that when they meet someone else, they can be clear from the start what they are prepared to compromise about and what mit (as should their new girlfriend) to then decide if the relationship is worth pursuing.

So you think a step parent should not have an opinion on step childrens choices/DH parenting only on house rules? I used to help step daughter with maths in the past, is it overstepping?
If the opinion is well recieved by the child, then of course this is positive. I'm referring to situations where there is conflict and disagreement.

My DSS quite happily walks into my home and ignores me when I even say hello to him
I note that you too refer to the home as MY. Do you really see it as YOUR home? It is disrespectful to ignore you of course but I personally find it disrespectful that you refer to the house you share with your oh and family as yours. Isn't it your family home that includes your step child? I don't think it is fait to expect a kid to treat a home and its rules as if it was their home but then not treat that home as theirs too.

@swingofthings that's not what I mean at all and it is clearly our family home but the fact remains I do live here therefore it's my home. Obviously it's their home too but I am not a second class citizen when they come to stay and should not be treated as such. My DSS has told his mother repeatedly over the years that he doesn't want to have to be around me, even when he knew me and his father were living together in a house we owned together. His mother has always tried to pander to this and suggested his father should make it happen and that DSS shouldn't have to spend any time around me because he doesn't want to. Considering he comes to stay twice a week they were basically suggesting I should have to leave our house for him to come and stay. He's 12 ffs and has tried to dictate what the adults in his life are allowed to do and as a result I have to either leave the house or stay out of his way when he comes because he just cannot he polite or civil and his mother has led him to believe that's ok. I've never tried to suggest it's not his home and have always tried to make him welcome but as a result I get forced out of my own house.

Any step parent should accept that their home is their step children’s home as well as their own children’s. It is basic manners and respect though to acknowledge any member of the blended family in that home.

Sorry Rose misinterpreted you words. The question is, why is he ignoring you? Is it just you or everyone? Was it always like that?

I think most teenagers who ignore certain people do a obrcaise they just don't like them. Of course they can be forced to say hello and thank you but these would be false. Would that acceptable? Surely the main issue is to understand the reasons that lead them to be rude.

That of course assuming it is personal. A teenager who is rude to everyone, teachers, strangers has indeed either had manners or is expressing a lot of internal anger.

swing I don't like a lot of people, for instance people I work with. I'm still polite, I still say good morning and ask how their weekend was or about their kids or whatever.

Maybe it is false but its better than being rude, but not being rude is the very least I expect from a teenager to be honest, hormones or not.

I think most teenagers who ignore certain people do a obrcaise they just don't like them. Of course they can be forced to say hello and thank you but these would be false. Would that acceptable? Surely the main issue is to understand the reasons that lead them to be rude.

I think reasons are important but not in any way a relevant excuse for that kind of behaviour. False or not a step parent or a parent has a right to request and enforce certain standards of behaviour in a family. Being polite and respectful are a minimum of a requirement. If it's stepchilds home as you insist they should be helping out with chores too.
As a teenager the stepchild doesn't have long till adulthood. They will be able to move out and be as rude as their please in the home they set up (and experience all the consequences) when that happens.

My DSS is fairly rude in general I think he just saves his best for me unfortunately! His mother will blame it on hormones or excuse it as him being cheeky/witty/funny etc basically whatever excuse she can think of rather than address the fact her son is rude. She knows he's rude to me and insists he's entitled to his own opinion of people (even though it's her opinion she's forced on him for years) and because of that I think she actually enjoys the fact he's vile towards me. My OH has attempted to deal with the rudeness and each time his son just refuses to visit which his mother also loves. As for chores we are lucky if they even clear up the mess they make or flush the damn toilet after they've used it