Broken

[pastel01]

I’ve just come out of a relationship and have been reading people’s stories on this forum.
I know kids don’t ask for their parents to break up and meet someone new. I appreciate that’s tough. However, I do feel that people get a hard time on here when they say they dislike their stepchildren. We’re only human! It isn’t easy when you’re doing your best in return to be totally unappreciated and looked down on.
My ex partner of 4 years had 4 children, 2 older children from one relationship, 2 children from another (boy 13, girl 12). He has them eow and one evening a week. We never lived together. At first everything was great. Got on with them well, never tried to be their mum, never in their face. We introduced my two children (dd14 and ds13) and all was good. Dp’s daughter loved me, was always filming me videos telling me how much she loved me, wanted to call me mum and was constantly saying how she wanted me & her dad to get married.
About a year in the boy started to be rude to me and dp did not correct him.
We had many rows about this and it wasn’t perfect but things improved. Nearly two years ago we went on a holiday. Dp’s son was a nightmare - when dp did correct him he would scream he hated his dad and he was a rubbish dad and he never wanted to see him again. It got to the point where all three other kids had had enough of him too. After him consistently carrying on without any correction from dp I lost it and told him off. He argued back. We did manage to sort it out but it did cause problems for me and dp.
A few weeks after that dp’s daughter was very off with me and went to her bedroom & stayed there all day. She kept asking to go to her nan’s (her mum was away for the weekend). In the evening dp told me that she didn’t like me. I went to have a chat with her and ask her what I’d done. She was so cold and unfeeling and said she just didn’t like me but wouldn’t give me a reason. I was so upset I went home with my two kids. Dp’s older daughter was crying about it and hugged me goodbye.
I gave dp’s daughter space, didn’t visit when she was there then she stopped seeing her dad altogether. Said he’d told her off for the way she’d been to me. She also admitted to reading a message to me on his mobile where he said a child shouldn’t split us up. She told him he’d chosen me over her and that if he didn’t split up with me she wouldn’t see him again. She told him she wouldn’t cry at his funeral. She cut all his side of the family off.
That was 18 months ago. Since then dp has seen her a handful of times. He messages her positively and for the most part has been totally ignored. She did send him a message to say she couldn’t bare to see me again and was surprised he was still with me (towards the end of last year). Dp’s ex said it had nothing to do with her and was keeping out of it but did agree to take her to counselling at the beginning but it didn’t assist in her wanting to see dp.
Dp and I had a great relationship. We only ever rowed about this issue & Ive walked out many a time out of feeling a sense of responsibility but always went back because I missed and loved him.
Last week dp received a text from his daughter to say she wanted to see him at the weekend. Naturally he was delighted but it hit me that I could never like or trust this child again. Yes, I know I’m the grown up and there must be underlying issues but it made me realise that she may still not want me in her life and Im not prepared to hang around waiting to see dp when she’s not around.
So I ended it. Dp has never wanted to break up with me over this but he’s stuck in the middle of a situation and Ive realised that his 12 year old daughter needs her dad far more than I need a boyfriend. Life sucks sometimes!

I'm sorry, it's so difficult and I don't know if you've done the right thing or not.

Don't have anything helpful to add but just wanted to say I totally sympathise as I'm in a similar situation myself and it's awful
My eldest DSS is a similar age and I'd be lying if I said I didn't really dislike him. I spent years trying to be nice to him whilst giving him space and allowing him to spend time with his dad alone. In return he's been nothing but rude to me, either ignores me or speaks to me like dirt, he's assaulted me, and lies to his mother about me telling her I've done stuff to him. He was caught out eventually when he told his mother I'd shouted at him when I had actually been away for the weekend. He told his mother he didn't want to have to be around me and unfortunately got what he wanted as I can't even bare to look at him he's so unpleasant. My partner and I are still together but I make sure I'm not around when he has his children round as I've done nothing to deserve the way DSS treats me and each time my DP tried to address DSS's behaviour DSS just threatened to not come and stay again which his mother pandered to.

Is there no way you can do similar and have your relationship with your partner and not blend the families as such, at least until DC are older?

I never appreciated how tough teenagers could be until I had mine. No matter how well you bring them up, they become their own people with their own personalities and many hormonal troubles. To be fair, I also never realised how tge menopause has the sane effect 40 years later!

Sadly, as much as many couple separate whilst women go through the menopause, men through their midlife crisis, couple separate because of teenagers, even more whrn in step families. It is sad indeed but as you say, it is life.

I hope you move on OK and who knows, life is full of surprises, so who knows what it will bring you in 5 years time.

Since the argument on holiday I disengaged with dp’s son for fear he would go the same way as his sister. I have to say he has been polite to me. However, he sits there and makes comments, clearly looking down his nose at his own father. He lies. I sit there and say nothing when I would pull my own kids up for much less.
Because I didn’t want to lose dp I convinced myself I could live separate lives if dp’s daughter came back on the scene. I’ve recently realised that doing this puts a child in complete control of our relationship. I would have loved to have lived with dp but because of living in different towns and schooling that was a plan for when the kids were older. What’s upsetting is that the kids have always come first every step of the way.
I do admire those people who are happy to tread on eggshells and not feel like they have a voice in their own home!
It’s not a decision I’m happy about in terms of losing dp. It’s so hard leaving someone when you still love them. But for the reasons above it had to be done.

I really feel for you

The only arguments my partner and I have are about his children and their behaviour towards me. He keeps telling me ‘you just need to make an effort’ - but I do! It’s been years and I keep making the effort and getting no results and no acknowledgement of it and it gets so tiring.

We’re having a baby of our own in a few weeks and I’ve had to say I don’t know if I can stay in this house when it’s all on me to keep the peace all the time. He doesn’t understand how it feels to walk into your own home and instantly feel unwelcome (he is the RP so we have his son 4-5 days a week).

It might not be much comfort but you’re not alone in this situation

@Dustyzest May I ask a question without coming across as judgemental? But why are you bringing a baby into this situation? Do you think bring a half sibling into an already tense situation would help?

You're DP already had kids when you met him. Why did your DP not ensure the children he already has feel secure and happy before doing this?

I am a step parent who had DCs 7 years after getting with DP actually for this reason.

I'm sorry reading back it does sound Judge McJudgypants and I'm sorry OP for derailing your thread!

*Your DP

What’s upsetting is that the kids have always come first every step of the way
Maybe this is the core of the issue. Children should always come first. A parents should do all to try to bring in a harmony in the family but in the end, it is right that if isn't possible, they should come first.

Maybe not living together has made things more difficult as maybe, you've considered yourself part of the household despite living elsewhere whereas the kids considered you as a girlfriend that didn't have much of a say in the house that they saw as their dad's but not yours?

@thegodmother it wasn’t planned. I didn’t feel comfortable with termination. It’s really not been very easy at all but we have been together for five years. There’s a lot that goes into a decision like that - more than I would want to put on a forum I think.

I must say that I also am one of those who can honestly say that dp & I really only argue/disagree when it comes to his kids. I've been with dp over 4 years & the situation between him, his kids & his exw has actually gotten worse over that period of time.
I agree with swing when she says kids should come first but I do think (& this has been argued on here before) there's a huge difference between kids' needs & kids' wants.
I think that in a lot of separation/divorce cases kids' wants inflate to beyond what is reasonable in a more nuclear family setting.
My dp has 3 boys - 19, 16 & 13. What they need is to spend time with their dad (which they do & mainly without me) but what they want is their dad to drop everything & come running when they say so. Most kids learn (as they move through teenagehood) that while they think they are the center of the universe they are actually not & most emerge out the other side as well rounded thoughtful young adults. When kids' demands are allowed dictate adult relationships that's where the rot sets in.
My dp's lads are good kids but they are following in their dm's footsteps in not accepting that their parents are divorced (it's been 6 years & more inc. pre divorce separation); not accepting that their dad has a partner; not accepting that their dad's money is his and not theirs, & not accepting that dp is not alive to solely run around after them/buy them stuff/take them on expensive holidays!
The eldest guy is finally beginning to see things differently (I think) but the 16 & 13 year olds have turned into expert manipulators & I can see that they are playing dp & their dm both, & are causing all kinds of grief atm.
Op - your dp's dd is 12 & obviously unhappy. However that unhappiness is being allowed determine the lives of the adults in her life & your dp will create a monster if he lets this continue. She needs to be listened to but not let dictate & tbh you're better off out of it if your dp can't handle it.
My own dd is 13 & I've always noticed that when she's unhappy, about anything, she directs this towards her sm & much younger half siblings, ie they are an easy thing for her to blame if she feels life isn't going her way! She's not been allowed get away with this however & now as she's getting older she does recognise that she projects onto them - especially when it's actually her dad/her older brothers/me she's annoyed with.
I think blending families is virtually impossible unless all the adults in the situation are more or less working off the same page. To that end me, my exh & his dw are mostly managing ok with regards to the kids - it isn't always easy but it's more good than bad. However, dp, his exw & I will NEVER see eye to eye regarding his kids & therefore I don't think we will ever blend.
Whether dp & I can weather that remains to be seen.

What they need is to spend time with their dad (which they do & mainly without me) but what they want is their dad to drop everything & come running when they say so. Most kids learn (as they move through teenagehood) that while they think they are the center of the universe they are actually not & most emerge out the other side as well rounded thoughtful young adults. When kids' demands are allowed dictate adult relationships that's where the rot sets in.

Sorry it’s still there @magda and sorry you are having a hard time OP, however I totally agree with the above. The rot really does set in when you give kids too much power when they haven’t the experience or maturity to handle it. And power over their parents relationship is one of those situations. I’ve got blamed for absolutely everything from my step daughters and unfortunately I too am just completely indifferent now. They have sometimes regretted their actions and been nice to me, and I am nice back for the sake of keeping the peace, however I do not feel this. In the future it will become more evident and it will be their loss really. Which is shame as much is their parents fault to be honest!

When my cousin was little (and I was a bit younger than her) she got a step mum that we were little shits to. We used to pretend we couldn’t hear her talking to us and used to hide from her.

After a couple of years though (and some stern telling offs) we grew up and it improved and now some twenty years on we all have a great relationship and she is granny to their kids.

I think there is a tough time for everyone especially around teenager years but I live in hope that one day I’ll have the same kind of relationship my cousin and her stepmum have with my partner’s children. The older one is already much nicer (after going to uni and growing up a bit) so I think there’s light at the end of the tunnel!

I have to remind myself they go to their mums and have one style of parenting and they come here and have another and that kind of inconsistency would have driven me mad as a child.

@dusty it shows that each situation is similar but different too doesn’t it. I wasn’t great to my step Dad but I never manipulated his relationship with my mum, never blamed him ever, and because of that we still had a relationship to salvage, and he loved my visits as an adult. We got on fantastically well. However my step daughters have been so indifferent, bitchy and blamed me for so long, and been mean to my son in all that time, and broke me and DP up that I cannot ever find a reason to want a relationship with them again. I’d feel disloyal to how they ignored my son. Some things are not reconcilable but young adults / teenagers don’t see that as they are too immature.

Children should always come first.

But should they - all the time - even when they're being manipulative little shits who are deliberately trying to break up a relationship? I'm the DC of divorced DPs, btw, and had two step-parents from the age of 7. If my DPs had put me and my siblings first they'd have not been able to have other relationships, because if we'd been given that power to dictate their lives, we'd have used it, and IMO it's wrong to give DC that power.

I hated my step-parents for years and would've done whatever I could to break them and my DPs up, if I could. But they always presented a united front. Rudeness was not tolerated and always punished. Civility and manners were required from everyone in the family and DC had no power to refuse to visit their other DP's home. It was EOW and no discussion. I'm honestly floored by the power that so many couples now give to their angry, hurt and resentful DC. Grow a spine DPs and step-parents and if you want to be together FGS present a united front.

PS. My DPs' second marriages are still going strong, 30-odd years later!

Oh OP I’m so sorry you are in this situation. It sounds awful.

I don’t think anyone here can tell you whether it’s the right thing or not. Personally? My view is that the stand that is taken is one that your ex partner needs to take. He either (firmly) and clearly states that he is with you and committed to you. Gets to counselling with his daughter (as she is obviously in pain and needs help) but his relationship with you is a non negotiable, and she should not be given the power to tell a grown adult, it’s me or her.

That dynamic of a child pitting herself against her fathers sexual/ romantic relationship is incredibly unboundaried and unhealthy. The right parenting is to explain that there are many different types of love, and the different sorts do not intertwine.
The father/ daughter relationship should not even come close to a romantic/ intimate/ sexual adult relationship. The two are not a ‘choice’ to make.

By allowing her to do this, I fear your ex partner is not parenting his daughter properly. What’s next? Does she want to share his bed?

Why no one else on these boards seems to pick up about these intensely unhealthy dynamics is beyond me. Children come first? It’s exactly that sort of thinking that is raising a ‘me first, self entitled, instant gratification’ generation of navel gazers.

As it’s been said, their needs should absolutely come first. This child’s needs should come first, she’s in pain, she needs to be heard and she needs security. Her want however, of wanting to displace her fathers sexual partner is an output of deeply complex emotions that are not healthy.

Those should not be pandered to.

Honestly, parenting is just that. Parenting. And sometimes it means making difficult decisions and having deeply difficult conversations.

I increasingly think that the amount of issues SM’s especially have is that the vast majority of their partners (in the main men) are woefully unequipped to have emotionally difficult conversations with their own children. So they take the easy route.

OP, FWIW, it’s for your DP to come to you and say, unequivocally that he loves you, that your place as his partner is secure. But that maybe he needs some time and some space to work on this with his daughter. But with you firmly by his side. If he can’t make that choice mentally and emotionally walk away. And leave him and his kids to it.

Life is better than this.

@stealthmode very well put. Unfortunately I do think many parents totally confuse needs and wants, especially after divorce when there t awful underlying competition between separated parents for their kids love.

But should they - all the time - even when they're being manipulative little shits who are deliberately trying to break up a relationship?
The problem is that as much sps can see the kids as little nsnipylstivr shits, the teenagers can see the sp as controlling partners trying to parent them or exclude them. We tend to see our own perspective because as kids we don't see what little shit we can ce but as adults, we sometimes don't see that we can overstep the mark.

In OP's case, it would seem that she decided to take over parenting the kids because she believed her partner wasn't dealing with it correctly. That was bound to lead to problems. The kids needed their dad to deal with their attitude, not his partner who didn't even live with him. From the partners perspective, it undermine his way of dealing with the kids.

I can totally completely understand getting to the point of having enough of teenagers attitude, it's bad enough when they are our kids, but I don't think it was OPs position to take over and indeed, it backfired.

Better in that case to stay away and let them grow up. Personally, I think joint holidays in these circumstances rarely achieve what is hoped.

@Dustyzest what a difficult situation. I hope it all eventually works out.

@thegodmother thank you. I’m sure it will, it’s actially been the thing that’s made the older child stop seeing me as some kind of enemy. I’m conscious it’s much harder for the 13 year old - we’re just working our way into a new normal!

But on the original topic - people often say the children should always come first, and mostly that’s true but in a relationship you need to come a very close second. I think what has helped us is discussing what my hard boundaries are (and it’s a work in progress!).

For me, I can’t tolerate poor personal hygiene (yep, that has to be a rule!), lack of toilet flushing, and rudeness, particularly relating to foods. There are lots of other things that annoy me and challenge me, but those are the ones I’ve had to ask my partner to respect as it needs to feel like my home too.

If left to his own devices, the 13 year old would never brush his teeth, never wash his hands, not flush after ANYTHING and would live off pizza alone. Every meal time was a spectacle. It’s not perfect by any stretch now but I had to explain to my partner how I felt after cooking a really nice, nutrious meal only to have it greeted by retching and nose-holding (it’s not ‘personality’, it’s rudeness!). It took some persuasion but now he is much better at calling him out on it (and not just expecting me to do it, either. It might be my issue but I am not the parent) and we’re getting some progress. And I don’t have to flush someone else’s waste away when I need a wee!

Would sitting with your partner and asking to objectively discuss some boundaries work? I had more than the three or four above but some my partner said ‘that is not something I think needs addressing’ to and I had to accept some of those).

Hi @Bananasinpyjamas11 - yes it's still there. Dp great at handling it most of the time but does slip. Exw texting constantly despite being ignored most of the time by dp. I've resigned myself to the fact that this will not stop until dp's maintenance payments cease.
@juneau - it's great to hear from a sdc point of view. Do you mind me asking if you felt hostile because you hoped your parents would get back together or was it some other reason?
@stealthmode - I actually fully agree with you re the jealousy stuff. I studied psychotherapy for years & like you it amazes me how little that aspect of things gets discussed on here, & if you do bring it up you sometimes get called 'weird'!

magda72 I hated them because I knew them from before and they were always nice when they were my DPs friends and they were fucking horrible when they became my step-parents. DSM was the 'OW' and she was very resentful of our presence and definitely competitive with us as the other females in DF's life (so yes, I also agree with the jealously angle). DSF was abusive - physically and verbally - and again wanted our DM, but not us. I'd have loved my DPs to get back together, but I knew they never would. DF immediately moved DSM into our house as soon as we'd left so there was no chance of reconciliation. My only hope was that the new relationships wouldn't last, but somehow they did.

Could it simply be their df had dc from one relationship that ended had another set of dc which again ended and now he’s with you who has dc and feeling replaced by you’re dc. He doesn’t particularly have a good track record. If you don’t live together I don’t understand the push for contact to be with you and you’re dc all the time, he needs to see them separately a year in and you being constantly there with you’re dc would be enough to cause resentment from the dc who rarely see their df and having his attention divided 6 ways or 7 if you include yourself.

@juneau - that sounds very difficult & must have been very hard for you. It's a testament to you that you've such a balanced, reasonable attitude to it now (& I hope that doesn't sound patronising).

Lol magda people can call me weird if they like. Doesn’t bother me.

Yup, the amount of people who post that it is entirely appropriate that this child’s views should be put first in this situation either makes me believe

1. That they themselves are in some unboundaried in this regard
2. they are the Ew’s who would more than happily like to see their ExH current partner removed from the scene.

No child should ever be able to dictate that an adult is removed from another adults life (the only obvious caveat being if abuse is present).

I also think it’s far too easy to cry jealousy. Ages ago my DP once stated, you’re jealous of the relationship I have with my DC. I found it an interesting comment in hindsight. Both to think about why he has said it and what triggered it.

I simply stated in return ‘no I’m not jealous. You are a super dad, your DC are lucky to have you and it’s one of the reasons I’m with you. I’m super proud for the father you are to your children.’

The challenge becomes when (as bananas has said), is that it’s set up as a competition. Either by the child’s immature emotional reaction (which needs gently navigation to come through) or by a non welcoming ex.

The job then becomes to make everyone step back and see the wood for the trees. And by that I mean, for the fathers to take a step back and look at the intensity they channel into the all to short time they maybe have with their children. To lessen that intensity and make it less pressurised for everyone. By this I mean, do normal chores, get the DC to muck in. Let them relax and spend some downtime. Try and get some semblance of normal family life with healthy boundaries. Don’t make it all about the kids. Don’t make it all about the partner. Just chill.

It means being able to articulate to a child that they are loved and cared for and mean the world. The story I used to give my children is when my eldest was born and I loved him more than anything, I worried how I would love the second baby who was due the same. Would I have enough love to go round. And then the baby was born and there was plenty of love. Then my third arrived, and it ran out (kidding).

When my DC’s were younger they would ask. Who do you love the most? And I would answer I love you all the same.
Then when the three of them finally met my DP they asked the same, who do you love more, us or him?
And I simply explained that as children, they would always come first for all the adults. That anyone of us would protect them because that is the job of adults.
But that when it came to love, the love I had for my DP was very different to the love I had for them. And it was equal but different and there was plenty of love and attention to go round.

Hammer that message home with consistency for long enough, children soon learn. Children naturally (always) want to know the pecking order of hierarchies. It’s for the adults to show the way and not allow it to become a deeply unhealthy conflict.

Because when children become young adults and try this in the real world? They learn very quickly that people don’t like ultimatums. And if you issue someone with an ultimatum, 99% of the time the person will walk away from the person issuing the ultimatum. Humans don’t like feeling trapped.

These are deep topics, which require work. Require self reflection and it’s much easier to simple say ‘you’re jealous’.

My DP only said it to deflect. My response was ‘I’m your partner, your equal, we have intimacy on many levels, and at none of those levels to do I feel jealous of children.’

What we react to is the intensely unhealthy emotional dynamics playing out, and it’s easier to brand us as jealous than it is to look at what they themselves be doing to their own kids.