Step families and finances

[AliceRR]

Interested to know how this works in other families where one partner has children and the other doesn’t.

My SH has two sons, 13 and 15. He pays 20% earnings to their mother as CSM.

We don’t currently have joint finances. We both work, earn a similar amount, and pay 50% towards all joint expenses (mortgage, bills, etc) which we pay into a joint account that the DDs go out of.

Although we earn similar (DH actually earns slightly more) he pays CSM and is paying off debts so he has a lot less money on a monthly basis but that’s largely as he is prioritising paying off debts. I have more disposable income.

DH thinks we should have a joint account. I have always resisted this as thinking I’m not ready and said that if I did I’d want to keep some money aside as I don’t want to pay towards CSM.

Anyone I have spoken to agrees CSM is his responsibility although when they are with us I share cost of everything and we pay 50:50 into the house.

What do you think? AIBU to feel like o lose out by sharing everything. We are a couple and things change over the years but sometimes I feel like I’m always the one who loses out...

This is maybe not just a step parent issue but that’s a large part of it.

to the PP poster, putting it in black and white and with no emotion, the child in question isn't hers, so the child isn't actually her responsibility at all.
My step son is not my financial responsibility, the children I have are. When he is in my home, he is cared for with the same finances disposable to my own children, and me and my husband have to ensure that we budget to make that happen in our house.

Their father should be protecting them. It is not up to OP, she needs to do the best for herself

Why would you have a child with a man who wasn’t protecting existing children?

When DH and I married he was paying CSM and had debts. He moved into my house and I (largely) paid for the wedding.

We did not combine finances.

I then had our child and, by then his debts were paid off and he supported me more (paid mortgage and bills by himself for several years) whilst I worked fewer hours.

DSS are now grown up so that expense has gone and I'm working more and now, in fact, earn more than him. We still have not combined our finances though but we now share the bills and I pay for all luxuries, holidays and home improvements. I have also given significant sums to the DSS when needed as I have savings and DH doesn't. I don't mind anymore, I love them and he financially supported me when we needed that.

I'd retain my financial independence if I were you to avoid bitterness.

Why would you have a child with a man who wasn’t protecting existing children?

Some women just do. They think the man is amazing for a while. Even more reason to put herself and her children first when she realises he isn’t all that.

Some women just do

So that makes it ok? Why are we not challenging this as a society? Why do we passively stand by and shrug and say ‘not my problem’? I would have less of an issue with it if we judged men and women equally but the result is men who pay a bare minimum are hero’s and women struggling to bring up their children are scum of the earth.

It is not OK to watch this happening again and again and again and say nothing.

ohreallyohreallyoh we all come at this issue from our own perspective. For instance I often see the argument on here that the RP is the one who provides a roof over their DCs heads along with all its associated costs. To anyone whose ex only has their kids once a fortnight if at all, this is true, and CMS is woefully inadequate. But for many others who have their kids for enough overnights to warrant also needing a bigger house, that statement isn't true. Let alone the fact that the RP will often be in receipt of child benefit, tax credits etc as well as the CMS, whilst the NRP has similar housing costs but no benefits and having to pay out CMS.

As an example my DH had his DCs three nights a week every week and we provided everything they needed whilst with us. With four DCs our house needed to be significantly bigger than one for just me and DH. Yet the blunt nature of the CMS calculator meant that if the DC had slept here just one extra night per fortnight no CMS would have been payable and benefits could have been shared equally. Funnily enough mum didn't want that, and didn't want DH to be the RP either. So there we were with the same housing/living costs as mum and going halves on all the extras such as school uniforms, trips etc yet paying out £400 pm in CMS. DH would happily have done a few extra doctors appts, haircuts, time off for sick days etc each year for £400 pm plus benefits! (he did do all this during the days he had his kids).

Before anyone says DH's level of involvement is unusual, I personally know of several families with 50/50 care or close to it. Maybe it's just the demographic I am part of. Likewise I'm aware there are a load of deadbeat dads and it's a disgrace that the Govt enables them to neglect their parental responsibilities. What I don't do though is jump on threads where the NRP is in the deadbeat camp and bang on about how CMS is more than adequate just because that's my own experience. But I see the reverse a lot even when it's clear there's 50/50 care or very close to it. Each situation has to be taken on its own merits. In this particular case although not 50/50 care the OP contributes towards her DSC whilst part of the family unit. She knows that even without her money the CMS will be paid by her DH and she is stepping up to her responsibilities by not advocating that he becomes a SAHD. IMO that's where her responsibility ends. If she also wants to campaign for the rights of other women who get screwed over by their exes, well that's a separate issue.

ACatsNoHelpWithThat
My dsc is with us 50/50 too. One week on and one week off but plenty of contact on the weeks dsc isn’t with us. Plus we only live 5 minutes away.
Quite frankly I find it insulting that there is an assumption that their mum does everything, we do minimal, provide nothing/minimal financially and that she’s hard done by just because he is the dad and has children with me so has forgotten about his eldest and left it all to her.

So that makes it ok? Why are we not challenging this as a society? Why do we passively stand by and shrug and say ‘not my problem’? I would have less of an issue with it if we judged men and women equally but the result is men who pay a bare minimum are hero’s and women struggling to bring up their children are scum of the earth.

I don't think anybody would willingly encourage their partner to pay more to their ex when it negatively impacts their own situation, and surely it's not fair to expect them to?

Alice has already said she pays more than her OH into their household. She bears the load while he focuses on paying off his debts, he even asked her to essentially buy him a car. Why is that not enough? She should be responsible for how much he pays for his children as well? It is up to him how much he pays for his children, not her.

There are so many perspectives @ohreallyohreallyoh, the PP 2 posts shows that's.
My husband for example pays over an above the CMS calculator, and his ex earns a hefty 5 figure sum singularly. He recently reduced his figure because it was impacting us financially and it's STILL way over the CMS calculation.
His circumstances were different when they split, which I know is not her fault, but equally it's not our problem she feels hard done by.
We also ask to have SS continually and for long periods of time, and she refuses based on the fact we may reduce "her" money.
It's not black and white. Not all men and step families are arseholes.

Op, has he ever been financially generous? He took your car and now he’s taking your car. He expects you to pay more to food etc, he told you to pay for the wedding, he hasn’t put you on the house , he wants to stop work so you bring in all the income, and he wants a joint account so you have no money of your own. Regardless of fair I wouldn’t want a dh with zero inclination to look after me (obviously I would do my share of looking after him- it’s a mutual relationship)

@timeisnotaline I am honestly trying to get my head around it while being fair to him but also not a pushover! I think he has a warped idea of what is fair. He has previously brought up the fact that before I moved in he had to pay for everything himself! Well yes I saw him once or twice and week and didn’t stay over but I did often pay when we went out and buy food and stuff. He acts like that was unfair which I don’t think is true.

He often talks about what makes financial sense “for both of us” but this is always things like me buying a car so he can have mine, joint account, me helping him pay off his debts. I can’t think of a time he did the opposite but maybe it is because there has been no opportunity. The house could have been the opportunity but he made sure I paid for the wedding so he didn’t lose out. He bought me an expensive engagement ring but on credit card and then asked me to take a loan to refinance it which he would pay but I didn’t agree to that.

I think we need a frank discussion about it but he is not very good at discussing things. He either gets angry or disengages if he doesn’t like what I say which makes things difficult.

I know when I put it in black and white he sounds like a freeloader!

I would also be interested in how he would feel about me giving up work and him supporting us but I just don’t think k that would even be possible given he can’t make it through the month without borrowing money even with me paying for at least half of everything.

See AliceRR I do think you have a problem with your DH's general attitude towards money, what cemented my opinion was when you said "He has previously brought up the fact that before I moved in he had to pay for everything himself...He acts like that was unfair." Can I ask why he has debts? Does he feel hard done by if he sees other people with stuff he can't afford and therefore finances it with credit to make it "fair"?

@ACatsNoHelpWithThat It’s possible. I think he has always just struggled on his salary. He earns more now but there was a time he earned less and ran the house alone and had kids every weekend plus paid maintenance. I think he ended up getting loans and used the credit card sometimes to make up any defect at the end of the month but he is not an extravagant spender.

As between me and him I think there is an element of him thinking I shouldn’t have it “easier” than him. He doesn’t like that I have more money and doesn’t think it’s fair. I know some people agree with that and have the same amount of spending money each regardless of respective incomes. But the way I have always seen it I don’t have kids and I don’t have debts so I do have more money. I don’t mind paying for extra luxuries and treats for us and the kids sometimes as a result but I just feel like what he asks is too much sometimes.

As between me and him I think there is an element of him thinking I shouldn’t have it “easier” than him.
I think you have sadly both fallen into competitive and controlling behaviour between each other. You don't want to share your money unless it is for something that you benefit directly from, ie. the wedding, and he is trying to push to prove to himself that you are being unreasonable.

You are married but both acting very much like roomates, arguing as to who should have the bigger room.

The way you are heading is so confrontational, I expect next time he gets a promotion or salary increase, he won't even tell you because after all, it's his money so why should you know.

I suppose it is possible to be married and yet totally independent financially, not sharing anything, but again, I don't see what there is to gain from this. As already said, it might very well be that one day, you're the one who will find yourself with less income, or he'll be the one receiving a bigger inheritance and spend it as he wishes and telling you that there is no such thing as fair division of disposable income.

I know when I put it in black and white he sounds like a freeloader!

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

My concern for you is that s man who is happy to openly minimise his financial support for his first family, he may turn out to be the same for subsequent families: he may be the kind of leopard which simply can not change his spots

The more you post, gosh. He is highly manipulative. You really need to see this.

A good relationship does share, eg my dh & I only have family money. But, the biggest exceptions to that are where there are existing children or debts on one side. You share all costs for the children in your home , that’s fair. You are helping with the debts by paying more for food.
Also, in a good relationship you know they are there for you. Financially there isn’t much evidence of this - I’d be insisting i be added to the house deeds as promised. When he said he paid for everything before you moved in, you surely had your own place? Where you paid for everything? That comment sounds like he simply can’t comprehend costs that don’t affect him, but his costs are everyone’s problem. The car situation is also shit- no acknowledgement that he keeps thinking he just gets to have your car. I just don’t see any evidence of the sharing going both ways, which means its not a great relationship and not a suitable one for establishing everything as family money.

He has previously brought up the fact that before I moved in he had to pay for everything himself! Well yes I saw him once or twice and week and didn’t stay over but I did often pay when we went out and buy food and stuff. He acts like that was unfair which I don’t think is true.

He actually wanted you to contribute to his bills etc because you went to see him at his place?! Even though you didn't stay over and you helped towards food cost?

OP, did you know he was like this before you married him?

He often talks about what makes financial sense “for both of us” but this is always things like me buying a car so he can have mine, joint account, me helping him pay off his debts.

Of course he does. He feels very entitled to your money. He sees you a cash cow.

I can’t think of a time he did the opposite but maybe it is because there has been no opportunity

I suspect he would find a reason not to help you. He will likely say he needs to prioritise his children and save his money for them.

What are his good points, OP?

I think you have sadly both fallen into competitive and controlling behaviour between each other. You don't want to share your money unless it is for something that you benefit directly from, ie. the wedding, and he is trying to push to prove to himself that you are being unreasonable.

swingofthings frankly, you're starting to sound like a dog with a bone now and ridiculous.

Name one thing that makes OP sound competitive and unreasonable?

And it's not true that OP only wants to pay for things that she directly benefits from. She is paying 50% of house costs even though his kids stay over and she is paying alot more for food than him because he has slyly manoeuvred OP into doung so.

OP, what kind of mortgage do you have? Is it a fixed one or a variable rate mortgage? What is the term of the mortgage? Does this mean you won't be pit on the mortgage or deeds fro the next 20 years or whatever? That's uncceptable. Please see the mortgage advisor, don't just take his word on it.

I think your current arrangement is fair. When his loan is paid off he'll have more disposable income. No need for you to subsidize this or his children anymore than you do.

He pulled a fast one with the car situation and it's to your financial detriment. I'm not surprised it's a sore point.

You should keep finances separate. CS is his responsibility and he only wants joint finances because it benefits him. Not you.

I think once your baby is here you should set up a savings account for him/her towards university/wedding/house...whatever. Beware that he may argue that an equal amount of savings should be done for his DC. He can do that... out of his own money not yours.

If you have a joint account this marriage would mean you are less well off financially.

While his Ex has a rich 'stepdad' I'd be somewhat concerned that it sits comfortably with him not to financially support his children.

@ShumpaLumpa No the plan was we were looking at houses and then would obviously buy jointly. He still wants to do that and I have said let’s look at houses but we need to find the right house and make sure it’s within budget considering our circumstances are changing.

@SandyY2K I think savings account is a good idea

Thanks again everyone for the replies

DH and I did discuss finances last night. We have agreed to keep things separate for now although DH sees that as me getting my own way of course. There were times we fought about cat and dog about everything but we really deal with things better now so I believe we will resolve things.

Does he actually love you or are you just a convenient cash cow to him?
His modus operandi is to look after his own interests first and then use you to finance his other wants/lifestyle.

He's definitely taking advantage of you financially and he feels no shame or guilt about that......and you keep letting him.
Personally i'd hold off buying a house and having dc with him until after all this has been sorted.

i think you're making the same mistake as lots of other women, allowing your emotions to make the decisions thinking it will 'all sort itself out' in the end. Whereas as he's using his logic to make decisions that ultimately benefit him only.