At the end of my tether with SD age 8 - need support/advice

[howtodowills]

Known DPs daughters (8 and 5) for over 2 yrs (as Dad's girlfriend) and DP moved into my place 8 months ago with me and DS (6)

Youngest "SD" has always been a lovely girl and accepted me fine. My DS has accepted the situation fine too. That's not to say neither of them have found things hard as they have but with love and support, and also discipline they have accepted their "new" set up fine.

Eldest "SD" hasn't. She has always been a "challenging child" apparently (say friends and family who knew her before parents split) but i am at the end of my tether with her. She has always been really jealous of me and her dad and I've tried to give them lots of time the 2 of them, lots of time him and his 2 DDS and tried to give her love and affection (as needed - she is a very "needy" child emotionally who asks for lots of cuddles.) The thing is she has gone from being ok but sad about her parents splitting to literally being a NIGHTMARE. She will turn up, lie, be rude, nasty and spiteful to try and "make daddy hate you" (her words to me). She will glare at me across the dinner table and undermine most things I say. I know her mother was very negative about me in the early days (i think through jealousy and hurt that her ex had found happiness with me) but i think she is past that now. the problem is it is getting so much worse with this girl. I have tried to support her in every way i can think of and am at the end of my tether now. She gets disciplined for her rudeness and wil be sent to her room for 5 mins time out (as all of our kids would for the same behaviour) but she will hit and kick DP, scream and shout in her room and throw things around and it's upsetting for the 2 younger kids. My DS hates that she makes his home angry and i really hate her coming. She's asked not to come anymore but DP says she has to as he doesn't want to not see her.

Whenever she does come she terrorises us all though and it is literally hell. DP works away during the week so we do like to see eachother at weekends and had been doing saturdays with "our own" kids and sundays all together, or vice versa but it's just awful. Every nice experience I try to make she ruins for everyone. I just don't know what to do anymore :(

Have even started wondering whether to jack it in with DP as I can't bear her making mine and DS life like this - as well as her poor Sister who hates all the anger

We did start Sunday afresh but by 7:00 she was already being rude and screaming at her dad. I'm not prepared for her to be a little * all day Saturday and then have to deal with it again all day Sunday - cause that's where it was going. I want to protect the other two from her and the toxic atmosphere she creates.

I wondered if she was suffering from depression and would have found it easier in a way to deal with some of it if she had but she's recently been Taken to the doctor by DP who says nothing like that going on as she's allegedly fine at school and fine at ours.

I see what you're saying toffee... Definitely food for thought about how we tell her.

We've done 1 on 1 time me and her and she likes it. Basically she like anything where she is the centre of attention and the world revolves around her. I know it sounds harsh but the minute you throw anyone else's needs into the mix - even her sister - she becomes jealous and resentful.

Yes absolutely to building a relationship that is independent with her dad.Soooo important. But probably hard if she feels none listens to what she want.

I probably should add I come from the other side of the fence of the stepparenting fence, which probably invalidates my opinions somewhat.

I agree here it doesn't feel right to let her decide about contact. She'll be running rings around us all before we know it.... It also needs some planning as her mum has said she won't commit to having her more.....

I would still put in rules. You have to tell us by the Tuesday before etc.

But mums response is interesting.... I wonder if she is having as much trouble as you....

It doesn't invalidate anything, Toffee! But I suspect it is very difficult as a parent, if you feel your dc is struggling at the other parent's house, to send them off with a cheery wave. I genuinely believe in trying to solve the problem within your own four walls though, else she isn't truly going to kearn to integrate into the family. Plus if her mum cannot or won't have her more often, it removes that as being an option - there is to alternative.

Have you asked hee outright (you may have mentioned but, baby brain, sorry) - you seem cross, what can we do to help? Did she say she wanted to be at mums? As that is not an option, what could be done to make her time better in your home? Some of these answers might come out with 1 to 1 time. Sometimes one child does need more input than the others, perhaps temporarily.

Sorry missed your question..would I leave now, No but that is because dsd is off to Uni shortly.She has settled down and thankfully we didn't have the tantrems you experience.Dsd was much more convert, the pulling faces and being very dismissive.I recall a family photo where dsd is caught glaring, talk about if looks could kill.

Dsd attitude came from her mum.Her mum has another 'target' now as her 2nd husband remarried (so did she) so there is another step mum (to her other children) who has taken my place! Dsd will talk scathingly about the other 'parents' in the mix and realise this is how we were spoken about.I discourage dsd from all the negative comments but her behaviour is quite ingrained.It's horridly toxic and I feel drained.I cope by getting time away from it and vent to friends.

As you are pregnant then I understand why you want to make it work.I think your step daughter needs counselling with her dad.If after 15 sessions there is no improvement I think you need a different counsellor and include your dp.

Yes agree with PP, she's had 15 sessions of counselling, so clearly someone has recognised that she's got serious, serious problems. Has this been organised privately or through school, social services, GP? In either case, why isn't the counsellor giving you advice and guidance, family therapy etc?

You need advice about how to handle her behaviour and you definitely need advice about how to handle telling her about the new baby.

Stop trying to do this on your own and/or with advice from random strangers on the internet. This is serious. She could be psychologically fucked up for the rest of her life. Get professional help.

I think I agree with your comments Toffee, but I can imagine how hard it would be to put in practice. The child's DF will not be wholeheartedly agreeing to her not visiting, her DM in all probability won't be happy she's not getting a break from her child, and her sibling will likely be very confused about why she's not coming to their DF's house! Difficult situation all round....but you've also got a SM here, who is not only pregnant but totally at the end of her tether, trying to do the right thing, and living in a an appaling turmoil every time the child visits!

your dp needs to get his own place and then he can make the choice to see his dcc without you and your ds being subjected to her tantrums. How does your dp have the right to make the decision to 'see' his dc in your home at your and your ds's expense?

I think people who are suggesting that you DP needs to see her on his own are missing the fact that there is a younger sibling who is quite happy with the set up who would then miss out. Where does she fit into that scheme?

I really can't understand why you've rushed into another baby with this going on. I'm always the first to support stepmums who post on here but to be honest it seems you just want this messed up little girl outof the way. You've put your desire for a baby well and truly ahead of what the child needs which i think is a period of stability where she feels like she's someones priority. I expect she's jealous that now there's another kid who gets her dad full time and it's not even his son.

I'm not kicking you when you're down but getting pregnant with this issues going on is really selfish and speaks volumes about your attitude to this girl. You don't care what the existing children think or feel. You post like you hate her and want her to stop coming so you can get on with playing happy families.

I think you need to adjust your attitude to her or detach completely. I would have left but obviously you can't do that now.

By the way taking a child's teddy at bedtime is really low as punishments go.

FFS Neon what the hell do you think your holier-than-thou lecture at the OP is going to achieve ?

Calling her 'really selfish' and stating she 'doesn't care what the existing children think or feel' is bollocks. If that were the case she wouldn't be posting here, and wouldn't be making the effort to try and understand/resolve what might be going on with this particular child - the OP has described several examples of how this has been attempted by herself and her DP including ongoing counselling, and IMO, is actively listening to various helpful suggestions made by other posters.

Your snide remarks will achieve nothing except making the OP feel even more lousy than she already does and frankly, having delivered your opinion, what do you actually expect her to do ? The baby's here, ranting at her about it is pointless and particularly nasty given the OP's past history of multiple miscarriage.

So you think deliberately getting pregnant was a sensible decision which takes into account the needs of the whole family as it is right now?

neon I appreciate this is a public forum but I'm feeling hugely upset and emotional right now and I'm finding your posts really upsetting. We talked a LOT about all of this but there are 5 of us in this family, not just her and I don't know if she will ever be ok with me, with or without a baby. So should I have never had another child just incase it was too much for her? I don't know.
All I know is that whatever I do or try it doesn't work.

If you think it's a selfish decision then so be it. Maybe I am selfish. As I mentioned I've not had a very good run fertility and pregnancy wise so I haven't necessarily felt I could plan around her. I also feel the other kids will rely benefit from, and enjoy a sibling.

I'll come back to the other posts later - feeling really upset and emotional at the moment.

I've had a cup of tea and a cry and am feeling a little better. neon - when you've lost 3 babies (1 in very traumatic circumstances) it is really hurtful when someone calls you selfish for getting pregnant. I am daily on tenterhooks wondering if i will lose this one too and of course I am constantly thinking about the situation with SD too.

FWIW I agree that taking the teddy is a bad idea for a punishment. I have never done it with my DS and wouldn't do it with SDs. However apparenty DP and his ex used to. I have since told him I don't think its a good idea and we don't do it.

Your point resonates toffee - we have DS and litttle SD who like spending time together, They both like (and get) time with just "their" parent but they also benefit hugely from their relationship with eachother and little SD really does adore me. I know that sounds OTT but she does.

The advice about getting DP to talk to her counsellor is good. I have suggested it but will do so again - more firmly.

Her mum says she can't have her more because of work which is fair enough but also doesn't seem to be open to really trying to support. She's often pitched "us" against "her" and twisted and turned things around. It was me who pushed for her to get counselling as her mum said "she's normal, there's nothing wrong with her, she's just sad her parents split". It was me who arranged for DP to take her to drs as I was worried about her MH (I suffer from depression), It's me who's ordered her books from the internet which I think can be helpful, read up about things to do to help her express her feelings and to try and dissipate her anger but I still get yelled at as the one who's doing "nothing to help her". It's hard.

The family counselling or SD and DP counselling is an interesting idea which i will talk to DP about.

Thanks so much for the support. I feel really lonely at the moment - and now a bit attacked as well. I am extremely senstitive about this pregnancy though given my history so I guess it's not a surprise to feel sensitive.

I think that for the time being, she needs more 1:1 time with either of you. Divide and conquer. So, keep the two that get on with one parent and the other one with the other for significant chunks of your access time. Obvs this is logistically tricky and neither group should be perceived to be doing something nicer than the other but it seems that this is what this child needs at the moment, she doesn't want to share the adults at all. Try to think of it as accommodating her needs rather than pandering to her (easier said than done I know)

tap - that's an interesting idea.... The thing is my DS isn't that close to DP (they get on fine but don't really have a bond) and I know my DS would rather do things with me at wkend than see me taking his SS out.
Having said that I have assumed that - i could test the water

Perhaps spending more time, your ds and dh together, could help to foster a better relationship between them too?

With your 1 on 1 time with dsd, could you do something such aa making cakes or a meal, something that ultimately benefits the whole family so hat she can feel she's contributing in a really positive way?

Yeah - I agree with DH and DS, they get on and there are no "issues" but they are not close. DP used to really heavily just focus on his 2 when they were all here whereas I really tried to split myself equally 3 ways.
The thing is that DP doesn't actually see DS that much as he works away a lot or isn't back till late and when he is around it's cause his kids are here.
I think their relationship will be one which just grows over time. I guess I would like it if DP made more of an effort with DS but I don't really know how he would find the time and it doesn't seem to bother DS much.

I have had SD help me with the evening meal which she loves doing and she is in her element doing it but then if the others want to help (which i think is fair enough) she gets really annoyed, or if I ask her to lay the table she won't want to do it cause it's not a "real cooking" job. Honestly, when everything is going her way and she's getting what she wants everything is fine but the minute it's not exactly what she wants it's a nightmare. I have tried explaining the obvious "setting the table is a really important part of doing the meal" but it just gets either ignored or done huffily and then i get annoyed at her internally and start feeling really tense inside.

I honestly am taking all the advice on board and i don't mean to come across being really negative about it all - i just feel it's a lost cause :(

You need more support from DP.
You have a DS and a baby on the way and all this must be so stressful.
OK he doesn't want to let her stop coming but he needs to step up and deal with her tantrums and stop piling it all on to you
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This child is clearly very needy. Annoying, tiring and unfair to the others BUT, most needy children are like that because they feel very insecure, very often through no good reasons, but rightly so or not, that's how they feel and it makes them feel awful.

In the end, it is fair that all children should feel love just the same, so if it means that one parent has to spend more time with one than another so both can feel love and cared, then that's fair enough. Some kids are the exact opposite. They need very little attention, but that doesn't mean they feel less loved.

It sounds to me like you are doing the right thing, doing things with her on her own, maybe what you can add when you do is to talk to her about how you enjoy spending one to one time with her, but that you don't love/care any less about her when you don't. That when you spend time with her, it doesn't make you love her sibling any less and it is the same when you spend time with them rather than her.

I've read the whole thread. I can't add too much. The one thing I will say is that for my dd, so far, age 8 was pretty hard work and that was without her having a blended family set up to deal with. I recognise a lot of what you describe tbh, the one to one time, the raging jealousy of anyone else getting involved, the flare ups that come from nowhere and rage for hours. I'm not entirely sure it's all about you though tbh, you're just something to pin her rage on. To be fair to her also, you have no vested interest in seeing the pain behind her behaviour or attempting to accommodate it because she isn't your child and you don't have that bond with her. If this was your child you'd be in for the long haul and there'd be no question of seeing less of her, so I can understand her Dad on refusing this option and good for him.

Personally I would totally ignore silly things like face pulling, I wouldn't remove teddies etc. I would ignore bad behaviour entirely, as another poster has said do the big treats when she's not around. It's a massive storm but you just have to weather it if you want the family to have a hope of succeeding.

It's things like baking I was going to suggest too, also as she's the oldest, can you play on that a bit? "SD gets to use the oven/ make lunch because she's the oldest" etc.
This works with my dd because it plays up to her desire to be the winner or in some way "superior" to her sibling. Sounds unpleasant when I put it like that but it's all attention seeking at the end of the day

OP I sympathise so much, because although we are 'the adults' in the situation, it is still hard as a human being to keep trying to give positive attention to someone who has a tendency to treat you like you are nothing.

I would like to think that just sucking it up a few times and offering the baking (great idea) or crafts etc will be hard to start with but might just flick the switch that resets things for the future, and then the positivity will become real instead of 'fake'.

Even if you find just one thing that she doesn't throw back in your face, make that your 'thing'. I've found one meal that all my DCs and SCs like, so we have that weekly now and I know I can 'win' that one. Routine is no bad thing, if they think that every time they are at your house, they do X, y and z that they like, it will become your thing.

Fake it till you make it, and all that!